If travel broadens the mind...

[SaligoBay]

.... why so many threads about the UK recently?  We've had English snobs, English people fighting in MacDonalds, the UK ban on fox-hunting, now something about impeaching the UK PM.

Is there not enough going on in France to discuss?    It's not difficult to find French or French-related news in English on the internet.

Here's one of many places you can slag off Britain and the Brits on the internet:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,11602941~mode=flat

I'm sure there are many more.  

[Tresco]

I've watched this slip down the posts, and am intrigued as to why, so I hope someone else answers after me.

For many people here, I suppose it's because they're from the UK, and find it easir to follow UK stories - familiar names, shared (in some ways!) historical and cultural understandings which make discussion feel easier.

For me, Along with the factors mentioned above, I am now convinced my partly mis-spent youth has dulled my mind so much, that it takes me days to understand the background to important events a recent example being what happened in the 'Ivory Coast' recently, it's slipped out of the news now but it's still ''going on. Even in England, I found it easier to read and take in what little 'news' seemed to be within most broadsheets, 2 or 3 days after publication.

Still struggling to understand just how bad Clinton was, after 4 years, and the ins and outs of the Impeach TB campaign, after 2 months and will now set to work on Chirac - I should get some understanding of how much of a rascal he is round about the time Sarko becomes President of the Republic.

[zeb]

 I think a great many Brits have no idea what's going on in France.

Come on you lot, be honest!  How much French new do you actually keep up with when watching Sky or FTV and reading a day old copy of the Times or Daily Mail?

There are also the folks who have to justify their move to France by saying that they had to escape the UK because of the government, the traffic, the noise, the NHS, the dangers to children etc etc. But they haven't a clue about the problems (many similar) in France.

Ignorance is bliss perhaps?

regards.........helen

 

[Russethouse]

>>>We've had English snobs, English people fighting in MacDonalds, the UK ban on fox-hunting, now something about impeaching the UK PM.<<<

Hmmm, The English snobs were in France, so was the McDonalds story, the fox hunting issue illustrates the differences between the two countries, as for impeaching Tony Blair, the main reason for this would be the Iraq war, an issue that France took a different (and in my view, better) stance on.

[SaligoBay]

But Gay, my point is that people are acting as if Brits are the only people in France who matter!  

There are other ethnic populations in France who hugely outnumber us, and who have a much greater effect on France than we have, no matter how important we think we are, going around prettifying old houses.

Sure there are Brit enclaves, but there are also Dutch societies, German societies, Arab ghettoes, Irish pubs, American Women's Groups, Oriental Dancing clubs, and multitudes of others.  

Do I have a rant every time I pass the Jewish Cultural Centre in Montpellier, and say that they should jolly well try to integrate a bit better, and if they want Jewish culture they can always go and live in Israel?  Bien sur que non!

Neither do I understand the idea of being "embarrassed" by one's fellow-countrymen.  If there are Brits Behaving Badly, all you have to say to your French friends is "that's why I left".

It just all seems inward-looking, c'est tout, and it's a shame.  Et voilà.  Finished.

[Russethouse]

Much as I agree with you, my guess is to discuss some of the other immigrants you mention we would soon sadly get into 'racism' accusations......

[letrangere]

SB, I can understand your feelings on this and am tempted to say it's because many Brits are not really interested in what's going on in France, even those living there permanently.  It's readily apparent from some of the comments made on the Forum that few read or listen to the news in France.  It's the glass bubble syndrome, I'm sure, though the language barrier probably doesn't help either.

Someone earlier gives an excellent example of a major international French story that was totally overlooked on the Forum, namely the shocking events in Cote d'Ivoire recently.  I was going to post on the subject at the time but interpreted no mention of story to mean no interest in it.  And trying to inject a French angle on a current thread (fox hunting) had no takers either. 

M

 

 

[SaligoBay]

Things like the Cote d'Ivoire get dangerous, because they challenge people's assumptions about Britain.  

For example, Britain's colonial history gets mentioned now and again, usually in very general and very scathing terms.  But France had/has colonies too,  and it's been an eye-opener for me just how huge the Algerian thing is in the French mindset (am I allowed to use that word?).  A little bit like Vietnam for the Americans, except they don't make blockbuster films about it.

I did read a few interesting articles about the Cote d'Ivoire, about whether France had any "duty" to it as an ex-colony, but like you, I didn't post anything about it.     

[Will]

Just seen the earlier posts in this topic.

The term 'Brit enclave' probably sums up this forum quite nicely (now there's something that should get the debate going).

And why would I want to slag off Britain? Just because I am in France doesn't mean I'm not glad to be British or that I don't like it in England.

[Alexis]

Let's be honest, there is not a lot of good news in France at the moment.

Just today on the news two bodies found in a burnt out car in Brittany.  A girl and her friend been missing for three weeks and some man caught with her carte bleu.  Emile Louis sent down for life for the murder of seven handicapped girls.  Old ladies in fear as a serial rapist stalks near Marseilles......

Not a bundle of laughs.  Just another day in paradise

[SaligoBay]

Alexis, shame on you, you cynical old scaremongerer!

But it gets worse.  I was reading my Private Eye this morning, and in the Celeb cartoon, Garry is complaining about ID cards, and says "Why should I be forced by the nanny state to carry a bloody ID card?".

First I thought that if "nanny state" is appearing in Private Eye cartoons, it's clearly just the buzzword of the moment, and only a complete buffoon would expect to be taken seriously when using it.

And then I thought I know a country where people need ID cards..... shock horror, does this mean France is a nanny state?

Yours,

A. Buffoon, Con.

[Alexis]

Don't you mean nounou?

[Catalpa]

Interesting thread SB.

The amount of UK-focussed posting - well, how many of the 5,300+ members of LF do *live* in France? As opposed to having holiday homes or wishing they had a holiday home / or lived here full time. Although, how many of the 5,300+ members actually post? It's a fairly small proportion I would guess and of that sub-set many probably only post in the specific forums such as house renovation, legal or health rather than the more general postbag.

If someone *lives* in France they're likely to be more interested in regularly buying the local or national newspapers, watching tv, reading news online etc. We do buy the local papers and Le Monde on Saturdays and I am persevering because it's obviously helping my language acquisition and use. But it requires disclipline because instead of sitting with a cup of coffee (well, okay, bottle of wine!) and getting enjoyably lost in a newspaper - news, analysis and personal cogitations - I sit here with my dictionary CD onscreen and newspaper in front of me so I can (try to!) look up what I don't understand. But this takes it out of the easy enjoyment category and puts it in the bit of a chore category. Interesting and long-term useful, but still not the easy news hit it used to be.

As I said, I'm persevering and getting better but it does take the immediacy out of being able to 'understand' the news because as I think someone said earlier, all the sub-conscious cultural references and information aren't embedded and available.

But I want to better understand the country I've moved to so... (opens bottle, rustles Manche Libre) onwards!

Carole

BTW, I'm not *that* disciplined: I still listen to the Today program on R4 in the mornings and sometimes PM in the afternoons. And I have been known to watch News24. Is there a French national equivalent for any of those? And one other thing... I watched some of the UK State Opening of Parliament the other day: is it because I've moved to France that the whole thing looked ridiculously antiquated and completely irrelevant in 2004? Oh bother! That's UK-related! Sorry!!

[Catalpa]

I'm intermittently reading France in the new centry by John Ardagh.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140259228/qid=1101469943/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_8_6/202-4787123-1742200

I'll admit it's occasionally a bit heavy going but it does provide a lot of the cultural and historical background that I'm lacking. And lots of more lightweight info such as the origins of the Leclerc supermarket chain.

(I just have to remember it all now!)

Carole

[Catalpa]

Three posts in a row seems a little obsessive but I think this relates to the thread as it was originated:

Do any of you who are (reasonably) fluent in French and interested in French news topics such as the Ivory Coast ever participate in *French* online forums? I was just looking at le Monde online and noticed that they have active forums for debating a whole range of topics. Are any of you confident enough to join in those discussions?

Carole

[SaligoBay]

Interesting point about Parliament, Carole.  In the UK I would have put myself in a vaguely "anti-royalist" pigeonhole.  

Now, from a distance, it just doesn't seem so important, and I can't work up a whole lot of passion for the issue at all.   French people are VERY interested in the UK royal family, and I often find myself having to admit that no, I can't think off the top of my head who the Queen's uncle was, or the details of the German connection etc. 

I don't even mind these "outdated" spectacles any more.  They're no worse than the regular trooping out here of ladies in Arlesian costume, or Auvergne clog-dancing.   Bit more expensive, I admit, but then, as said in another thread, Chirac is a bit pricey too. 

Ah well.  Time for saucisse and lentilles, as kindly donated by maman-adoptive neighbour.

 

[letrangere]

does this mean France is a nanny state

Personally I don't have a problem with carrying an ID card, I believe it's a very sensible thing for a whole host of reasons.  However, I have long "felt" that France is a nanny state and that there's greater government intervention in people's lives than in many other countries.  For example, I've always found the livret de famille a strange concept, it smacks of the state keeping a close track on family life.  A personal bete noire is the current ruling that forces everyone to contribute to state health care whether they want to or not, though many here will argue that's a good thing. 

French people are VERY interested in the UK royal family

Yes, I've observed that too and it always surprises me in a way that it doesn't so much with Americans.

Carole: nothing wrong with listening to R4 when it's the best radio broadcasting in any language.  God bless the Internet, I can now listen to The Archers again...

M

[Piprob]

I think it is suggested in more academic circles that people give most of their attention to the things of immediate concern to them; that most of us progress through a natural priority of concerns as our lives move on. We start by worrying about our security, roof, food, job, kids, etc., and when these needs are met we presumably move on to satisfy ‘higher interests’. Quite where national politics or even celebrity games fits into this scheme of things who knows!

 

Maybe its true that the things we want to talk about simply reflect our satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the way we currently things.

[Tom]

I wouldn't like ID cards. You'd have to pay for them, I'd probably leave mine at home or lose it, and as someone said, it would be like those second world war films, you'd be sitting on the train, an official comes round and asks: "your papers please" in a heavy foreign accent.

[Will]

Stereotype - in France I believe it's a legal requirement to carry ID. Cards are much easier than the alternative for GB citizens which is a passport and proof of address (i.e. utility bill in your name). My French ID card cost me nothing, other than a fair number of trips to the mairie.

Carole - I think more of us are permanent residents in France than you reckon. As a percentage of the rather inflated total probably not that many, but of the active, established members I think plenty of us live here.

French people are VERY interested in the UK royal family

Very true, but they are possibly interested in them for the wrong reasons . Not just the British Royals, I see that the Monaco Royal Family is taking part in Qui veut gagner des millions or whatever it's called next week.

As far as the Ivory Coast thing is concerned, I think I learned more about that from the BBC than from any of the French media. I'd be very wary of a serious debate about it here, for fear of bringing out the racists versus the PC brigade.

I also find the French media very parochial, though it's interesting to get another slant on some of the stories.

[Tom]

Shouldn't SB be reading Le Canard Enchainé rather than Private Eye?

[Tresco]

Or writing Private Eye, rather than reading it?

[Alexis]

Euronews is on france 3 from 6.00.  I watch Télématin from 6.30 on france 2.

I like a good laugh in the morning.

[SaligoBay]

Guilty as charged, caught red-handed reading something non-French 

But it's funnier that the Canard Enchainé, same as Viz is funnier than Fluide Glaciale.

I imagined that almost everyone on here would be an avid Private Eye reader, the St Albion Parish News is sooooooo funny.   All the Blair-bashing you could possibly want, and some more.  Have a read, the French Connection is a bonus mention of Cardinal Chirac:

http://www.private-eye.co.uk/content/showitem.cfm/issue.1120/section.albion

Happy reading, just off to the Mairie now, wish me luck.

[Fontremy]

I agree - the French are very parochial indeed. I would be interested to know how much has been heard in France about the recent trial which exposed the astonishing misuse of power by Mitterand and the continuing power (and misuse of it) and income of Chirac. By their standards TB is a saint!