Lourdes Is For The Faithful

[Furry Knickers]

Don't go if you have no belief or faith!

The many shops are operated by private entrepeneurs and not the Catholic Church, I am sure the Church would welcome the removal of all the traders and some of the tasteless items they sell! and of course they are there to "cash in"  and exploit the faithful pilgrims that travel there from all 4 corners of the globe. I have met 2 world famous American people there that make the journey every year.

Why would you want to go if you are not a believer? I found the exerience very uplifting and touching and unlike anything I have experienced in my life! Seeing all those devoted and hopefull people, many searching for nothing more than to walk in the footsteps of Saint Bernadette and to see how she lived and where she saw The Blessed Virgin Mary, and to touch the ground and walls where Our Lady appeared to Bernadette.

If you need to ask if it is worth a visit, then you should not go! You are going for the wrong reasons. I would love to be there at Easter myself. You don't have to buy anything from the hundreds of shops that line the streets upto the Domain, but once you go inside the gates you forget all about the outside world and you will leave with something very special. I can't explain what I left with, and you probably would not understand, but I returned many times and each time was as special as the last. We also made the journey to Nevers, where Saint Bernadette rests and there is no exploitation of pilgrims by the greedy and thoughtless traders.

Don't knock Lourdes because of the commercialism that has grown around it, look at what that has done to the birthday of Jesus! It is a place that offers what you are looking for. Perhaps you are not looking for what that is? or you may not yet realise what it is you need from Lourdes! Maybe there will come a time when you won't have to ask "is it worth a visit" because you will know that you need to go!

What I and many others have found in Lourdes, cannot be bought from any street traders, it just cannot be bought!

[Battypuss]

We are not great church goers, nor are many who go to Lourdes. But my heart goes out to those who seek help there. I have brought up my kids on compassion, rather than commercialism and all three are rather upset by the idea that one would go on a gawking holiday to Lourdes. I suppose the epicentre of the latest tsunami will be the latest hot spot this year.

I think the wave wrecked the cricket pitches, too, there.

[Tresco]

I'm certain no one goes to 'gawk' at disabled people.

My impression is that those who are not lured there by the hope of alleviation of their symptoms or condition, go to gawk at the tawdry souvenirs which are available in every shop.

The people who are ill, or disabled, many of them go in good faith. I worked with disabled and terminally ill people in England. Many of them , who had faith, felt 'like cattle' (their words). Their faith, and the comfort it had previously given them was diminished by the experience. It's an industry, and a dodgy one at that. 

tresco

 

[Iceni]

Thanks for your comments Tresco and most importantly about the 'cattle' approach. My daughter is Jewish, this is and was known but she was whisked off to Lourdes before we even knew. She was told it was a holiday. Just because someone is disabled and is perceived as 'in need' that is no reason to take them to Lourdes.

I once had a gypsy call at my door and tell me that for £25 she would sell me herbs to cure my daughter. I was so traumatised by their insistence and repeated calls I ended up being treated myself, filling a plane with people who have not made a knowledgeable decision and taking them somewhere they think is a holiday is not a lot different in my view.

My original comments about Lourdes were as visitor to any town in any country.

No offence meant but unless you believe and can perceive where you are going and for what reason it is all meaningless.

[SaligoBay]

Well, I certainly didn't intend to cause all this rumpus!

Is Barcelona worth going to?   Yes, the architecture is impressive.  Is Marseille worth going to?  Yes, it's cosmopolitan and has lots of character.   Questions and answers like that make sense.   "Is Lourdes worth going to?  You must be a really sick individual"  doesn't.

Plenty of believers go to Rome, yet it's also a wonderful city to go to for other reasons.   It appears from everyone's replies that Lourdes isn't.

Why would I want to go there?   Because it's there, and it's famous, and I've never been there.  No more sinister than that.  Don't know how you all managed to read so much into a simple question! 

[Russethouse]

Isn't it rather a narrow view that you have to go for just religious reasons ? People may go there 'just' to see the shrine, and why not ?

I'd like to go to Liseux, among other things to see the shrine to St Theresa of the Flowers, I'm not religious, but I find her 'history' quite interesting.

I find Mont St Michel quite inspiring, perhaps I shouldn't go there either ?

Surely christianity (along with many other religions) is 'inclusive'..........???

SB, on balance I'd try Barcelona

[Miki]

SB, on balance I'd try Barcelona

I would tend to give Barca a swerve for a while, they are a bit tetchy at the moment, mañana perhaps

 

[Tresco]

Please, I have no wish to be part of any rumpus, and certainly no wish to offend anyone.

I don't know why FK started a separate thread relating to Lourdes. I thought your question in the other thread was staightforward SB, and it got pretty straight answers.

It's just personal experience of working for people with disabilities I was speaking about. 7 million people a year visit Lourdes. It isn't a big place. Many of those people, I reckon, go in groups, as a 'holiday' of some sort. Certainly, some, not all of the many people I know who have been there have been because it was what was on offer. It was the only chance they had of going away, something I think we (the rest of us) take for granted, these days more than ever.

I know 2 young women, aged 27 and 32, Lourdes is the only place they have been to on 'holiday'. They resented it, they resented the fact that they were only offered the chance to leave the country to travel to one destination, and that their companions were all disabled people, with different politics, outlooks on life, different ages, different mental capacities, to themselves.

And yes, they did feel 'on show', and they felt diminished as individuals, because they were in these huge groups of people, the majority of whom they had never met before, some of whom they just did not want to spend a day with, never mind a week.

Most of us are lucky enough to choose who we go 'on holiday' with, and indeed, where we go, and what we do, however constrained we think we are in our personal circumstances, every minute of every day. Some people don't.

I was brought up as a Catholic, I try to have respect for people of faith, but not in these instances.

tresco

 

[Tresco]

And, don't get me started on the 'entrepeneurs'. Those selling illuminated baby jesus figures are nothing, nothing compared to the people who sell basic wheelchairs, the kind they have in hospitals for shifting people from ward to ward, for £1000, (when the cost of them is about $400), never mind what it costs for someone with more complex needs to have mobility. Ever been in a shop selling 'aids' for people with disabilities, it's a real eye opener.

These Catholic organisations, who fund these 'holidays', why don't they fund these chairs, and other 'aids', or campaign and educate people about the grossly inflated price of them.

And now I am ranting, and will not say sorry.

tresco

[Furry Knickers]

 The sooner I get my Bear the better!

 

[kiss]

 

[Jill<br><br>Jill (99)]

I went to Lourdes nearly 30 years ago - probably just because of the film "A song for Bernadette". Frankly, it made me feel sick and disgusted. Even as we waited at the railway station in Nice, we saw hospital trains heading for Lourdes. When we arrived there it was horrifying the money people are making out of people's desperation. Bottles shaped like the Virgin Mary so you could get the water - which is on tap, for goodness sake. Lourdes, to me was just an example of exploitation of the disabled and innocent. As you can probably guess, I'm not a believer, but it is seeing scenes like this that has helped formed my beliefs, or lack of them. I have also been to Lisieux and Le Petit Lourdes at Herouville St Clair. I sincerly hope that the people who need help can get it. I am generally tolerant of other people's beliefs - I prefer to leave everyone to what they believe in. But it is such a pity to see the exploitation of desperate people. We should be compassionate about people who are suffering. Lourdes doesn't really have the compassion. I would have thought if anyone was in that much need of help, there are other people closer to home who could give them far more support.

[Tresco]

[quote]Why should you have to say "sorry" for being so unhappy? Life is for living and I prefer to live a happy life, and I won't say sorry for that! Why do you blame the Church and Lourdes on your misery...[/quote]

 

FK, I am not miserable.

Certain things make me angry. Many, many more make me happy. A new bear sounds like a good idea. Thanks for the tip.

tresco

[Furry Knickers]

[quote]We are not great church goers, nor are many who go to Lourdes. But my heart goes out to those who seek help there. I have brought up my kids on compassion, rather than commercialism and all three are ...[/quote]

The Mange! It affects us all in different ways!

Has The Mange touched anyone on Living France? Has it affected your daily life? If so, in what way? One day we shall all know someone that is affected by The Mange in one way or another!

My new Red Point Siamese is called 'Rubber' after my cousin in County Mayo.

[PossumGirl]

[quote]I went to Lourdes nearly 30 years ago - probably just because of the film "A song for Bernadette". Frankly, it made me feel sick and disgusted. Even as we waited at the railway station in Nice, we s...[/quote]

I have to say that my experience at Lourdes was quite different. Yes, all the tacky souvenir shops are there, but those exist at almost every site in the world where lots of people go to visit.

What I found were a great many helpful, kind people who seemed very patient with those less fortunate than themselves. I did not go with any religious group, just as an individual interested in what I would find there.

I have to say that I don't belong to any specific religion and, generally, don't really feel comfortable with organized religion. I did not have a religious upbringing at all and before going to Lourdes assumed that I would feel a bit uncomfortable there.

Instead, I came away greatly moved with the feeling of spirituality that I found in the sanctuary. I felt a feeling of peace that I hadn't expected.

Thus, it's clear that the place can have different effects on different people.

Randy

[Val_2]

My very religious neighbour went there as a spinster and came back with a future husband so she got a miracle as her mother was sure she would end up as a nun. Mind you the bloke she married is showing his true colours after 13 years of marriage by having beat her a few times in the past year or so and drinking himself stupid.

[Mistral]

My mother in law has been to Lourdes a couple of times with a group from her diocese.  She felt she benefitted a lot from the feeling of community with other ill people, the daily religious services and discussion groups.  She always comes back feeling strengthened. I don't think it would be my sort of thing, but it works for her.

[Iceni]

I think the phrase 'seemed very patient with those less fortunate than themselves' sums it all up. These are people we are talking about, they might be different but to lump them all together and say that they are 'less fortunate' is to me (and my daughter) insulting.

Patronising those who have no choice seems to me to be to be the game here. As Tresco said, some have no choice, the only holiday they ever get is to Lourdes.

I can think of a few disabled men who would rather be taken to a brothel than Lourdes - and if you find that statement upsetting, please realise that we are talking about real people with real needs who have absolutely NO control over their lives just because they were born different to what we stupidly regard as the 'norm'. Lets be serious, no seriously disabled person is ever going to come back from Lourdes with a new husband or wife, their living arrangements probably prohibit such a terrible idea...