Troisieme Age

[Teamedup]

this obviously this is not adressed to everyone on here.

 

So you have retired to France with no or little french.

 

Truthfully how are you getting on and how much of a burden are you due to your necessity for english on neighbours and the services and authorities? ie your GP, the Mairie, Caisse de Maladie etc

 

I was talking to someone the other day who assured me that they were no burden at all, but I was really wondering how they would know whether they were or not, after all if someone was slipping in the odd vieux con ( or worse) as they were chatting, they would never have known.  This person was tapping me up for the most basic of information.

[Blanche Neige]

"this obviously this is not adressed to everyone on here."

 

T.U. this doesn't apply to me but check your PMs

[KathyC]

Wouldn't this question be equally relevant to anyone who has moved here with little or no knowledge of French? Surely that is the important point rather than the person's age or the fact that they've retired.

[Teamedup]

Don't know whether it would apply to 'everyone' as this bloke said he was 66 as if it were a get out clause about learning french.

[Dick Smith]

Well more fool him, but I don't see the point of creating a thread about it. Or do I?

[Teamedup]

Well I think you do see the point DS, as  I am sure that you see the point of many of the threads we have on here  [:D]

[Dick Smith]

Actually I don't see much point to a lot of threads. I'm not complaining, they can still be entertaining, but in the scheme of things...

Isn't that why we do it? Less boring than watching telly?

[Will]

There are certainly a lot of retired people with little or no French round here, and I doubt if any of them see themselves as a 'burden'. Quite the opposite in fact, as they spend their often quite generous pensions in the supermarkets and various other shops and market stalls with English-speaking people. They come here with the idea that France is some kind of Peter-Mayle inspired heaven, and they can be on permanent holidays. Because their lack of French means they don't read French papers or watch French TV news, and there are English speaking CPAM helplines, tax officials etc (and French-speaking acquaintances) to ease the bureaucracy, there is little that changes this happy outlook. Best of luck to them I say, sometimes I wish I could retreat into such an ideal world too.

Of course, many French people may regard them as a bit of a burden - but they would never know that, would they? [:D]

[Ron Avery]

At our French school, there are a lot of people who are in their 50's,  some are in their 60's and some even 70+.   They are all having a go at learning the language because they feel it is the right thing to do and it makes life so much easier, BUT  as we al know, it is not the learning that is the problem it is the remembering and the older you get the harder it gets.

 One thing that is becoming clear though,  you will never learn to speak French fluently unless you use it daily outside of the classroom and learn to think in French, and that is very very difficult for the average Brit who has thought in English for 50 + years.  Come to think of it, posting on here in English does not help one bit.............[:P]

[KathyC]

I'm not of retirement age, although over 50, and I find this thread incredibly patronising. I do not believe that the proportion of older people not speaking French is necessarily higher than that of younger people. You only have to think of all the threads about people who enquire about finding work in France without the ability to speak the language. Many older people will have a far better grounding in the mechanics of French from their schooldays, even if their spoken ability and confidence are weaker. With that foundation it can be easier to "flesh it out" with oral and aural skills after arrival. Younger people may be more confident (heaven help them) but may have learnt any French at school by learning set phrases, rather than the structures of the language. I say this with some knowledge having studied French at school in the 1960s and returned to do a language degree in the 90s. When I rather tentatively discussed this possibility with the tutor (French native speaker) beforehand he said, "If you have "A" level French from 30 years ago, you will be at a better standard than those coming straight from school now." He was right; after a week or two revising  I found that the first and most of the second year of the degree covered the same ground (although with a different emphasis) that I had covered at school. I know most people have not studied French to "A" level but I think this illustrates the differing standards.

Some people are born finding learning difficult, this doesn't just descend on you when you claim your pension. It's easy to be fooled into thinking that confidence is the same as competence. Older people may well be lacking in the former - not helped by attitudes like yours- but it doesn't follow that they aren't competent or cannot become so.

[Teamedup]

Well I found this bloke astonishingly arrogant and how patronising is it for him to expect everyone to serve his need for english only spoken in a non english speaking country. 

Fortunately he is in one of the areas of France with many brits and I am sure that he will 'use' any brit he meets who has bothered to learn french, that he may be a burden has not crossed his mind, as apparently  no one minds and everyone is really nice and helpful.

Also I could post about younger people, but in this case it was someone older that I had met.

 

 

 

 

[Russethouse]

 Kathy C, Surely the flaw is that when we ( I am around your age)were at school, French was only compulsory for 3 years - from 11 - 14 if I remember correctly. After that, at my school we had to choose our subjects and on my case it was French OR Geography, so those that chose Geography, in my school for instance, now wanting to move to France could find themselves in pretty dire straits .

I can drag enough up from my O levels to get by, but it would be years before I could converse freely in the way I do here, the thought of getting older and possibly becoming infirm in a situation where I could not communicate easily would be a nightmare for me.

[Iceni]

TU - if this bloke is English why "astonishingly" etc ? Surely you are aware that all that is required to make Johnny Foreigner understand is to speak SLOWLY and LOUDLY in English ?[:S]

John

not

[Teamedup]

Strangely I still get surprised by some people and their attitudes. And that always surprises me too, as I suspect I should know better.

[KathyC]

Teamed Up

I agree absolutely with what you're saying about that particular individual; it was the way you assumed everybody of his age was the same and that this only happened with older people that I disagreed with. The questions asked on this board by younger people illustrate the attitude to learning French of many Brits.

Russethouse

Individual schools' attitudes to "options" varied then as now. At my school it was compulsory to take a foreign language at "O" level and it was the second (in my case German) foreign language that came into the area of choice. The current government abolished the requirement to study another language for GCSE a couple of years ago (although they are reconsidering this now) so you can't assume that things are better now. I would agree that it would be frightening to be in hospital and not to understand what is going on but this would also be true at any age. The older retired people I have met seem to have come out to live with their adult children, often after a bereavement and presumably depend on them. I would have thought that the majority of retired people starting off in France are the earlier retired, in their late 50s and early 60s, hardly in their dotage or beyond learning new skills. (Although I have to say that I have the odd senior moment; but then I always did!)

[Patf]

Another forum that I contribute to had a poll about members' attitudes

towards learning french. It was pretty horrifying to see that about 70%

ticked " don't speak french and don't want to learn. " I only hope this

was due to someone fiddling the figures, as it was possible to do. I

also tend to agree with Kathy that older people aren't necessarily

linguistically challenged. After all we have more time on our hands to

spend learning. Pat.

[Ron Avery]

Just for the record TU where did this interview take place?  I thought that you said hat you had moved back to the UK or are you back in France now?

 It would be interesting to know where in France this happened, There are areas of France where it is quite possible to exist without knowing a word of French and as Gay said with all the English speaking help lines it is getting easier and easier.  I know a fairly intelligent man who really believes that ALL the French speak English, they don't to make it difficult for him!!![:'(]

[Teamedup]

No I haven't moved back to the UK, although I am in the UK at the moment will be back in France later this month.

It was just someone I ended up having a very odd discussion with in the UK who was back to see friends and family over christmas, as some people do.

 

 

 

 

[Miggimeggi]

[quote user="Teamedup"]

this obviously this is not adressed to everyone on here.

[/quote]

Being one of those to whom it is addressed, I find this thread  ummmm, interesting.  Unless I have missed one I do not see a reply, not even a defensive one, from anyone else who might also be one of the addressed and yet it is implied that we are well represented here.  Are we all perhaps a little intimidated by those superior beings who have the advantage of having had either early opportunities to learn French(school, university, bi-lingual families, etc) or who just have a flair for languages and find the whole thing easy.

In my very late sixties I have been here for four years, four years tomorrow actually, and have not managed to learn very much French at all but I do manage to cope for the most part, albeit ungrammatically and with the most horrendous accent.  Wherever possible I will seek out English speakers amongst those with whom I have to deal and find that with a bit of Franglais and some humour we are able to reach a satisfactory conclusion.  If I cannot find someone with some English, I suppose that I am something of a burden because I need someone with the patience to allow me time to search for words and the willingness to use either simpler or alternate words to express what they want to say - and of course - to slow down.  I do try very hard not to burden those English people I know by expecting them to make themselves available as a translating service although it has happened  occasionally but only as a last resort when I really must have as near perfect communication as possible. Generally, these days I can cope with all shopping, most taxes, the mairie, EDF, and such things although slowly.  For CPAM we are fortunate to have a local caisse where there is an English speaker and we drive there when we must, having first 'phoned to be sure he is to be in.  We then wait patiently, often far past our turn, to be able to speak to him.

So far, our only real problem has been with doctors.  We have not been able to fine one with any English and of course, in ones later years that is a problem.  We have often come out of the surgery no wiser that we went in but too embarrassed to continue to press a busy GP for further explanations or have simply avoided going at all and just hoped that "it" would get better by itself.   Surprisingly, almost every vet we have come across has spoken good English and very willingly and that is more important, after all, we chose to be here and the animals did not.

My............. I have gone on haven't I.

Anne

 

[Dick Smith]

You TERRIBLE person! Leave France immediately, and don't come back until you are fully bilingual!

I don't know what the world's coming to, I really don't.

[YCCMB]

[quote user="Dicksmith"]You TERRIBLE person! Leave France immediately, and don't come back until you are fully bilingual! I don't know what the world's coming to, I really don't.[/quote]

[:D][:D][:D][:D]

Dick, what are you trying to do? If everyone becomes fully bilingual I'll be out of a job........... (although come to think of it, UNTIL everyone becomes fully bilingual, life will be quite busy!!)[;)]

 

[Miggimeggi]

You're right of course and I would, really I would except that  I like it here dammit!

Anne

[Dick Smith]

Clearly being in love with the place doesn't count. Never 'be a burden' by expecting someone else to willingly give of their time and patience, even if that willingness is one of the reasons you fell in love in the first place...

For the truly cynical, of course there is profit in helping you part with your cash.

[YCCMB]

[quote user="Dicksmith"]For the truly cynical, of course there is profit in helping you part with your cash.[/quote]

I sooooo hope that's not aimed at me!! As a m of f, if I'm helping anyone part with their cash at present, it's HM Govt., who have deemed it appropriate to provide free English lessons to all comers - the only eligibility criteria are that students should either be from EU member states or be asylum seekers, or have leave to remain in the UK. Hence, if it all gets too much for the poor French (who, in my opinion, are probably second only to us Brits in their inability/unwillingness to learn a second language) then they can pop across the Manche and get free English lessons anytime!! Maybe it's something the French could try and then TU would have fewer people to complain about........................................[;)]

 

[KathyC]

Hi

I had thought that my reply was supportive of older people and I don't see why you think that people who have learnt a bit of  French at school have to be described as superior beings. You sound like you're coping really well in most situations, which just goes to show the truth in what I was saying about older people learning languages. Unfortunately, it seems as if your lack of confidence is holding you back and that by seeking out English speaking French people, helplines etc. you are stopping yourself  from becoming more fluent. I know that sometimes this is unavoidable but the more you try, the more you can do. Expecting people to speak more slowly, adjust their vocabulary etc is  not the same thing as expecting all French people to speak English and making no effort as was first suggested. You sound like you're doing ok!

I'm surprised that you've been unlucky with doctors as most medical people I've come across seem to have at least some English; these encounters are often stressful in themselves and that can hinder understanding. In my experience, many doctors are not the world's greatest communicators even when speaking the same language as the patient. It's not unusual to leave a surgery with masses of unanswered questions even in England.