Never mind the French....it's FRANCE that's boring!

[Owens88]

If you had retired to 'anywhere' without local friends and a phalanx of connections continuing from your working years you would have noticed a big difference, n'est-ce pas ?

[vickybear]

Mais Oui M. Owens, but the issue here perhaps isn't 'where' we've retired to after all, but the age at which we've retired. Was it too soon and would I have appreciated rural France better at 60?

[Owens88]

I doubt that it is an age thing particularly. You have been racing (treadmill, roller coaster, surfing the skies... you choose your own metaphor).

Then      You stop, suddenly.

And      You relocate, anywhere.

You WILL notice the difference.

 

Even in London, or any other lively city, part of the buzz is the interactions with other people is a large part of the buzz and when you 'stop' your core intreractions the momentum is hard to re-start. (But probably easier in a city, whartever country). I do sympathise, I just jib at the headline referring to a country as a whole.

 

 

[Deimos]

I think he boredom thing may be more to do with early retirement than location.  True that in the UK there would be other people around to talk to (in a language you were fluent in and could freely converse in).  However, those around during the day would mainly be 65+ and the younger ones you might meet after work would all be “full of” their successful careers.

Some larger companies used to run courses for their retiring employees to teach them how to stay active, how to have plenty to do, etc.  My father went on one (run by his company) before retiring (he took my Mum on it as well).

How any individual copes with staying active and fulfilled is bound to vary between different people.  I also “burnt-out” before retirement age and decided to give-up work early and moved to rural France.  I find more than plenty to do.  Not just things filling my time but things I learn and feel real achievement when I’ve done them (and not just renovation – which does not seem to be getting done very fast at the moment).  For me, stopping work has been a fantastic opportunity to start all those things that I could never have done whilst working.

I wont start listing suggestions as what interests one person can be quite dull to somebody else.  One thing I have found with clubs and associations in France is that they are generally friendly and welcoming (despite my very limited French).  Nobody at any of the things I do regularly speaks English to me and they endure my attempts at French without too much grimacing.  Communication is difficult but we manage.  There have been one or two people that have initially refused to have anything to do with me.  At one thing I did, one person would always totally ignore me.  When he arrived he would greet and shake hands with everybody else but totally ignore me (even shaking hands with others I was talking to and still ignoring me).  I just kept being polite to him, kept greeting him when I arrived, kept joining in and helping, etc., kept going and after 3 or 4 months he started becoming more friendly.  Even took me up flying on one of the high performance club gliders as he became more friendly.  Sometimes things can just take time.

I believe that language limitations (and I am pretty limited language wise) need not be a hindrance.  True that language may be restrictive when trying to smalltalk with locals, but there are other challenges.  I feel tempted to say that there are things everybody wants to do – but being truthful, I can only speak about myself.

 

I do have a suspicion that a significant part of the boredom is related to not having work rather than location – but that has to be my personal opinion.

 

Ian

[Debra]

That the belief I expressed earlier, Ian.  When you stop doing a high powered job you can take time to recover and rest, but once you have your brain gets to the 'what next?' stage.  It doesn't matter where you are - that will happen.  Being in a new, more quiet, environment away from existing contacts etc may exacerbate the fidgetty feelings but isn't the cause of them.

[bixy]

Jo53 makes an excellent point - that no matter how good your French may be, what you do not have in common is a culture, a shared sense of the past, a shared sense of humour. This in itself is an impediment to communication. But there's more to it than this. A lot of the people you will encounter in the French countryside, and I'm assuming that most contributors to this forum are located in the countryside, will have very limited life experiences and horizons. Try talking to them about their own culture - Monet, Voltaire, Descartes. Do they know, are they interested? I would guess the vast majority of inhabitants of France profonde have never been outside France and probably quite a few never to Paris. This does not imply that they are stupid or ignorant but just that there life experiences and way of life are totally removed from the average British immigrant. Contrary to what other contributors have said, I find the small talk easy - the weather, the garden, the village gossip - it's when it comes to anything a bit deeper or more subtle that it tends to go adrift. A friend who has lived in france for a number of years, who is fluent, and considers herself 'integrated' freely admits that there is no way she can have anything other than a superficial conversation with the local farmers, builders, postman, cafe owners etc etc. And then there are those French people who will not even go 10 percent of the way to try and communicate with 'foreigners'. Another friend, who has lived and worked in France for nearly 40 years [you can guess that he is pretty fluent] recently met the wife of an acquaintance. He made me laugh when he told me that when he spoke she looked at him as though he had just landed from another planet, and refused absolutely to have anything to do with him.

Patrick

[Cassis]

[quote user="bixy"]Try talking to them about their own culture - Monet, Voltaire, Descartes. Do they know, are they interested?

[/quote]

Try the same thing on your average Brit - your average homme dans la rue is not renowned for deep discussions on the works of Shakespeare, Turner, Milton and Wordsworth!

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Cassis"][quote user="bixy"]Try talking to them about their

own culture - Monet, Voltaire, Descartes. Do they know, are they

interested?

[/quote]

Try the same thing on your average

Brit - your average homme dans la rue is not renowned for deep

discussions on the works of Shakespeare, Turner, Milton and Wordsworth!

[/quote]

Mind you, deep discussions about Messers Beckham, Rooney, Zidane, et al

can be conducted over a whole range of national, social and educational

strata...

[YCCMB]

[quote user="bixy"]. A friend who has lived in france for a number of years, who is fluent, and considers herself 'integrated' freely admits that there is no way she can have anything other than a superficial conversation with the local farmers, builders, postman, cafe owners etc etc.
[/quote]

Patrick, I think I know what you're saying, but wherever it may be, and whether in our own or another language, are there really that many occasions where we'd all be discussing anything deep and meaningful with most of the above, unless they're actually friends or neighbours? In the UK, my conversations with the postman never tend to go beyond "morning" "lovely day" etc., and even in a pub it's really rare to get into a long or deep conversation with the barperson....I get the feeling that whether in France or the UK it'd be pretty rare to start talking about current events with the builders or the milkman...............

[bixy]

OK, so it depends what you want to talk about. Personally I'm bored numb by Mr Rooney and his knee and Mr Beckham and his spouse. And I agree the average Brit wouldn't know much about his own culture but the point that I was making was that it wasn't just a matter of culture or language but of interests.

Patrick

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="bixy"]

 ... but the point that I was making was that it wasn't just a matter of culture or language but of interests.

[/quote]

Agreed. And part of the trick (if that is a fair word) to settling in

deepest France if one comes from, say, London and has spent years in a

high intensity job is to have a clear idea about just how "quiet"

things can get - and to be comfortable with that - and to be flexible

about what is "interesting."

If someone arrives expecting to, broadly, continue with their previous

hobbies and pastimes then they may well be very disappointed. If,

however, one is willing / able to develop interest in what they find

around them then (however unpromising these may first seem - and they

certainly can appear distinctly unappetising at first), then settling

is a whole lot easier.

School age children help to, as has already been mentioned.

[nimportequoi]

I agree it is nice to talk about different things with like-minded people in the real world to get mental stimulation (that's why I teach English to adults), but I think being able to speak the language fluently is more important - I get along just fine with my mainly agriculteur neighbours, we discuss the village, the garden, the weather, the family, the farm, my work, ridiculous French laws and occasionally we have the odd argument - just what you would do with the neighbours back in the UK! However, I wouldn't be able to do this if I didn't speak French at a very good level.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="SusanAH"]I agree it is nice to talk about different things

with like-minded people in the real world to get mental

stimulation (that's why I teach English to adults), but I think

being able to speak the language fluently is more important - I

get along just fine with my mainly agriculteur neighbours, we discuss

the village, the garden, the weather, the family, the farm, my work,

ridiculous French laws and occasionally we have the odd

argument - just what you would do with the neighbours back in the

UK! However, I wouldn't be able to do this if I didn't

speak French at a very good level.[/quote]

Like it or lump it, a good grasp of the language is necessary. Last

night, having cleared up the mess left after the kermese (imagine

Gengis Khan and a couple of thousand crazed Mongolian horsemen bombed

out their minds on fermented yaks' milk and you'll have the picture),

we sat around in a group with our delinquent children running around,

eating the leftovers and gabbing. OK, it started with football (which

can be discussed in any language as it a mostly visual subject), but

then ranged over the prospects for the wheat harvest, dogs, hunting,

where to buy power tools and the correct amount of garlic to put into a

préfou. All very much bloke-stuff and (I think) essential to

maintaining a good spiritual balance. Without it (and, without the

language to be able to join in) I'd feel castaway.

[Pads]

I think what we are trying to say here is that no matter where you come from or where you are now, we have all lost the art of conversation, is this because we all spend to much time im front of our computers doing this, and what we really want is to sit next to a real person and have a real conversation, but i for one am to lazy to drive somewhere to see some one ,cant have a drink cos i have to drive back, when its easy to sit here with my beer and natter to cyber people and really none of us like it but its what we do.and wouldnt it be nice to have a neighbour who is your best friend who you could go out with and have some shared interest, but where are all these people. I sometimes wonder if there are any people with the same interest as me, cos they dont live around here !!!!   

[hastobe]

Bixy's post struck a cord with us.  I recall a long conversation with a French couple who live in our area but who had only recently moved from Paris.  Both had had demanding, professional jobs but they had decided to relocate and indulge in a quieter lifestyle.  Although they expected to settle in quickly they had, in fact, been treated as outsiders in the village - as had their young son.  They felt it was because they had very little in common with many of their neighbours - most of whom had poorer educations, non-professional jobs, had never travelled abroad  - indeed many hadn't even seen the sea (which is only two hours drive from us!). 

TBH - we were quite shocked as we were used to having friends and families who were well travelled, well read and who had a very cosmopolitan / modern outlook on life.  When it comes down to it, with time, the hurdle of language can be overcome but differences such as those described above are a little more difficult to resolve.

Kathie

[bixy]

I meant Rooney and his foot.

It may be a good idea to compile a list of what you will miss before you go. For me it would most of all be the English countryside, which I spend a great deal of time wandering round - so incredibly varied and with a surprise round every corner. Then there's cricket - just to see it being played on the village green, and pubs, though strangely I almost never go to them. Friends I will not miss because almost all live far away or in other countries. Ditto family. Ditto colleagues, since I work on my own.

If you live a hectic, busy city life - cinema, theatre, gym, work, pub, friends, family - then I imagine it must come as a major shock to come screaming to a halt and be faced with nothing more exciting than the daily visit from the postman.

Patrick

[Catalpa]

[quote user="bixy"]

It may be a good idea to compile a list of what you will miss before you go. [/quote]

Yes, but...[:D] isn't one of the points coming out of this discussion the fact you miss things you'd never have imagined in a million years (for me) you would miss?

[quote user="bixy"]For me it would most of all be the English countryside, which I spend a great deal of time wandering round - so incredibly varied and with a surprise round every corner. [/quote]

Depending where you live in France, it's not so different. I liken my part of Normandy to the Cotswolds but without the traffic. And without the £500K semi-detached 3 bedroom houses [:D]. I agree that if you're further south or west, the countryside is considerably different.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

I used to miss the idealised pub. That is,

• A pub that sells good beer;
• Is attractively located, preferably in the country with rooms so
  that no-one has to drive, or just round the corner from a mates house
  or on a bus route;
• That has tables where one can sit, drink, talk and play cribbage.

However, I now realise that such a place is very seldom to be found

(and if it is, it is packed to the rafters as it is such a rare things)

and that pubs can now be broadly classed in three catagories:

• "Gastropubs" where all the tables are intended solely for the
  consumption of pre-frozen meals (look at the length of the menu and ask
  yourself if they can all be fresh);
• Drinking warehouses where music is played at a volume that
  loosens your fillings, where the beer should really be warmed up and
  poured back into the horse, and where one stands a fairly good chance
  of being hit over the head with a chair;
• Complete dumps.

Now that I have realised that I am missing something that, in practical terms, no longer exists, I don't miss it.

[Wendy]

I agree with WVW's original post to a certain degree. My 18 year old son agrees wholeheartedly, he cant stand it here. Its ok here if you like to live life at snail pace but it can be difficult to adjust to if you are used to  more stimulating surroundings. There are compensations though. I'm normally too busy with day to day stuff and have plenty to do around the place but when Ive had some time spare I admit Ive nearly climbed the walls with my son. And the way they pull the plug here on Sundays is really irritating.

[Cassis]

Not all of France is countryside and hamlets, of course - there are a few cities as well!  It's just that almost everyone on this forum has a place in the countryside.  Not really representative of or fair on France, is it?

[Cerise]

You are right there Cassis - we have friends (French not English) who have moved from the village here to the centre of Bordeaux to retire and infinitely prefer it as they found they too were bored here on retirement.  Although their main house was here they lived busy cosmopolitan lives, were often away and come retirement, particularly the wife, they found they had little in common with their neighbours however charming the latter were.  Now they are in the city they enjoy the buzz and are meeting many more like minded people.  I think other posters are right in saying that it is not the area you live in but the experiences of the people you meet which make communication easier.

Nowhere is perfect and life is full of compromises.  I think I will always have itchy feet and one of the things I have realised about rural France is that moving on is not so easy (the length of times houses take to sell for one thing).  The next time we move I think I will rent (where ever we go) as then another change of direction would not be so difficult.  We are here for at least a couple more years so plenty of time to plan and who knows, maybe I'll have found the solution to the lack of excitement.

 

[Judith]

This <has> been an interesting forum - when it has managed to stick to the subject - if only because I am now going to be controversial and say - I live in the centre of London and I find that boring - in so far as I don't meet people regularly and I certainly don't pass the time of day with neighbours very often.  I have few friends, and those I have do not live in London, and my relatives are also not London based.  My job is now more relaxed, but even when I did have a stressful job and not much time for interests, I always have been able to entertain myself easily.  I am looking forward to my relocation to France when I retire (and join hubby who is already there) and I already know I will not be bored living a relaxed, quiet and peaceful retirement.  Listening to music, reading, working on various projects  --- I already have far more to do than I wish (mainly interests which can easily transfer elsewhere) and few relatives to miss.

However, when it comes to conversation in French, we were saying only last night in our weekly phone call, that it is almost impossible, no matter how good your French, to discuss meaningfully the many subtle nuances which are to be found in any language.  Perhaps that is why we all still need to be able to have some English acquaintances in France - whether we are discussing football or Shakespeare - its the subtleties that matter in human interaction, hence the boredom when you cannot express it.

In the end, some people (as has already been said) will be bored wherever they are, and some will always find things to do, new interests etc.  Your life - wherever you are - is surely what YOU make of it!

[Cassis]

You will be banned from the forum, Judith, for being too sensible.[;-)]

[Christine Animal]

Judith said :

In the end, some people (as has already been said) will be bored wherever they are, and some will always find things to do, new interests etc.  Your life - wherever you are - is surely what YOU make of it!

                                                           

 

[powerdesal]

Only 48 posts Judith, obviously well worth waiting for, applause seconded.

Regards