Strikes

[julia]

I have just been looking at the notices in my daughters cahier de liaison, she is in primare and her teacher is on strike on Thursday, the other 2 teachers are not though.

The reasons stated  for the strike are;

- 15 000 postes supprimes dans la fonction publique, dont 8 500 dans l'education nationale

-Rentree 2007 : 600 postes crees pour 46 600 eleves supplementaires dans le premier degre

-Augmentation incessante des effectives en classe

-remplacements non assures

 

Appologies for lack of accents, I must buy a french key board!

[SaligoBay]

It's all part of the fun of the rentrée, Julia, betting on when the first strike will be!  [:D]

I heard this one mentioned on the radio at the beginning of the month.   Some teachers will strike, some won't, some will but won't say until the day itself.  Some will say that they're morally on strike but will teach anyway.   School buses might or might not take the opportunity to have a day off.

So if you feel totally confused about what's happening (or not!) when the day comes, join the club.  C'est normal! 

The point about understaffing is a serious one though, and one that doesn't usually get reported in English, so a lot of expats don't realise what's going on.   Populated places are the first ones to suffer, I think, because they need the staff, so it probably won't affect most Brits.

 

 

[Suze01]

[quote user="SaligoBay"]

The point about understaffing is a serious one though, and one that doesn't usually get reported in English, so a lot of expats don't realise what's going on.   Populated places are the first ones to suffer, I think, because they need the staff, so it probably won't affect most Brits.

 [/quote]

Last year my son's French teacher broke her leg and he didn't have a French lesson for nearly a whole term because there were no remplacents available  [:@]

[Hoddy]

A couple of years ago I was asked to help my neighbour’s grand daughter with her English because her teacher had been absent for most of the year. She told me that the people who had looked after them had just gone into the class and asked something like, “ Have you done the work on page 32 ?” Sometimes they answered honestly and sometimes they didn’t. Nothing that they did was marked.

In theory, at any rate, this shouldn’t happen in an English school. Whoever is responsible for English in the school would be expected to see to it that there was some kind of continuity, that the teacher’s plan for the year was followed and that the marking was done. This seems to be yet another illustration of the differences between the English and French educational systems.

Hoddy

[julia]

At rhe reunion this week we were shown the timetable for the class, I noticed that there was a slot on Tuesday for Anglais and wondered why my daughter hadn`t mentioned they were doing English. The answer became apparent when the teacher went through the timetable and said she would be teaching Enlglish with the help of a tape and a book this year as they didn't have the funds to employ a prof d'Anglais.

When I asked my daughter about it, she said it was a tape about "Mrs Lollipop" .Is anyone familiar with this tape?  Why do I ask? well during the discussion about this lesson in the meeting the teacher hinted that she would appreciate some help from me with oral Anglais !   [8-)]

[SaligoBay]

[quote user="julia"]

the teacher hinted that she would appreciate some help from me with oral Anglais !   [8-)]

[/quote]

Yes, I did that bénévole for a whole year!  Except I didn't help.  I replaced!

It can be a nice thing to do if you feel like it, but if you don't, don't be pressured into it.  It would be better all round if the Education Nationale provided trained teachers, not parents off the street!   

 

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="julia"]

When I asked my daughter about it, she said it was a tape about "Mrs

Lollipop" .Is anyone familiar with this tape?  Why do I ask? well

during the discussion about this lesson in the meeting the teacher

hinted that she would appreciate some help from me with oral Anglais

!   [8-)]

[/quote]

As in:

Miss lollipop was lonely,

so she bought a little truck,

she went down to the duck pond

...and in jumped a duck!

Very little or no extra money was provided when the govt in their

wisdom decided to make a foreign language compulsory for all children

over (was it?) eight years old. Quite a lot of schools manage to find

some money to bring in a peripatetic teacher for a couple of hours a

week and then make up the hours with tapes and textbooks. Others are

making do with foreign incomers with varying levels of experience (in

my case zip when I started) to do the work. I'm getting a lot of

support from the real teachers and I rather enjoy it. There must

hundreds of people doing this across the country.

[julia]

Nice rhyme Jon D, but no Mrs lollipop is a Lollipop lady who helps people cross the road (my daughter was amazed that people do that for a job, but after a little reminder from me she realised she had used one when she was 4 and in the UK)

I think I shall pop into school tomorrow and see if I can borrow the tapes and books , I assume that for this age group we are looking at what things are called, colours and numbers.

[nimportequoi]

[quote user="SaligoBay"][quote user="julia"]

the teacher hinted that she would appreciate some help from me with oral Anglais !   [8-)]

[/quote]

Yes, I did that bénévole for a whole year!  Except I didn't help.  I replaced!

It can be a nice thing to do if you feel like it, but if you don't, don't be pressured into it.  It would be better all round if the Education Nationale provided trained teachers, not parents off the street!   

 

[/quote]

I agree that teaching shouldn't be taught by parents off the street, but I taught in primary schools for a couple of years (with habilitation and paid, although not a lot!) and in my last school, the headmaster who had recently passed his habilitation took over after I left. Strictly speaking he was qualified, but his English accent was awful, he didn't have a sense of humour and he didn't know the stories, songs or traditions which the kids used to enjoy so much during my lessons. I don't think that is the best way to start children off learning English - it should be enjoyable and interesting for young children!

[Mistral]

Sorry, I forgot to post a warning about the strike [:$]

I'm assuming the comments about english teachers are from the primary sector. As JonD says, it was one of the gov's bright ideas to introduce foreign langauge teacher for primary pupils. The idea was to start with the CM2, then the next year CM1 and CM2 and so on until you got to GS (I kid you not, youngest child in GS has just started English lessons) BUT the next gov realised that they just didn't have the staff to do it, so it became sort of "if it's at all possible" but not obligatory.

The recrutment order is supposed to go like this. First a teacher from the school who has the habiliation (this way the rectorat doesn't have to pay extra) . This is getting more and more difficult as more and more classes have the lessons. Next, a teacher from the local collège (they are paid extra but lose their free half day, so it's not easy to find one) next another person who has the habilitaion and lastly the first person of the street who is willing to do it. When I taught primary teachers at the IUFM 14 years ago, we had three levels of habilitaion, 1) can teach, 2) can assist an English teacher  3) shouldn't even be in the same room. Unfortunately, lack of money means that more and more primary teachers are being pressured into teaching English when they don't want to (or are capable of doing)

It's not really something to worry about. The level of English teaching is so varied that we start from the very beginning in 6eme with everyone. The only thing I can expect kids to know are the numbers (up to about 20) and colours. The rest I teach as new.  

 

[SaligoBay]

Chatting with some friends last night, and one of the younger ones has got a full time job in an école primaire teaching sport and computers.

It went from lots of félicitations that she'd actually got a real job at last, to quite a bit of criticism of the state of education, when they're employing people who haven't done the concours or anything.  C'est une honte, they said, and they're probably right!    Whatever her restrictions on paper, she will almost certainly be left alone with classes of children, like wot happened to me.

[YCCMB]

Just out of curiosity, is there a French equivalent of a CRB check for people working  with children?

[julia]

Do you know, that same thought occured to me. We were still in the UK when the Huntley/girlfriend/classroom assistant murders happened. At the start of the new shool year I wasn't allowed into school to do my usual parent helper duties on my day off from work, but had to wait about 6 weeks for police checks etc, I still have that form with me here(not that it would mean anything to anyone, I suppose)

Do those checks happen here?  There is a man new to the village(he has children of his own) and is telling the children in general that he is going to set up a sports club in the village but will need parents to help. My first thoughts were ;

That would be brilliant  for the kids and yes I would help BUT

Is he qualified to teach sports?

And who is this man anyway?

[Harley]

Not had any experience yet of educational strikes - are they restricted to Government run schools?

My eldest (just started College) was told in her English lesson that she could join in or do whatever she wanted to do.  At this point I waited for her to tell me that she had helped her class mates or did her homework but...............

What she wanted to do was go to sleep.  So, that's what she did[blink].

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Mistral"]

Sorry, I forgot to post a warning about the strike [:$]

I'm assuming the comments about english teachers are from the

primary sector. As JonD says, it was one of the gov's bright ideas to

introduce foreign langauge teacher for primary pupils. The idea was to

start with the CM2, then the next year CM1 and CM2 and so on until you

got to GS (I kid you not, youngest child in GS has just started English

lessons) BUT the next gov realised that they just didn't have the staff

to do it, so it became sort of "if it's at all possible" but not

obligatory.

The recrutment order is supposed to go like this. First a teacher

from the school who has the habiliation (this way the rectorat doesn't

have to pay extra) . This is getting more and more difficult as more

and more classes have the lessons. Next, a teacher from the local

collège (they are paid extra but lose their free half day, so it's not

easy to find one) next another person who has the habilitaion and

lastly the first person of the street who is willing to do it. When I

taught primary teachers at the IUFM 14 years ago, we had three levels

of habilitaion, 1) can teach, 2) can assist an English

teacher  3) shouldn't even be in the same room.

Unfortunately, lack of money means that more and more primary teachers

are being pressured into teaching English when they don't want to (or

are capable of doing)

It's not really something to worry about. The level of English

teaching is so varied that we start from the very beginning in 6eme

with everyone. The only thing I can expect kids to know are the

numbers (up to about 20) and colours. The rest I teach as new.

 

 

[/quote]

I teach everyone down to PS, but then there are only 45 children in the

school. The younger ones do pretty well; three and four year olds take

to a second language very quickly sometimes.

I have had concerns about the objectives I am meant to be trying to

achieve: some of my CM2 rabble are in their third year of English and

really are not bad at all. I am hoping to get a meeting with the

language staff of the collège in to which our school feeds to agree

some common aims. We shall see. I am also a little worried that I might

be instilling some bad habits. Someone (French) told me with great

authority that "whom" was not an English word, that "may I..." when

asking for something was archaic and no longer used in English and that

"I am" is never spoken or written as two words... I have to say

that the importance placed on grammer in French education has been very

helpful to me: I can explain to a class of eight year olds the use of

object and subject pronouns in English in grammatical terms and

actually be understood (by most of them, anyway).

I have never had a criminal record check, to answer another posting on

this subject. From some of the things I have read about them, they are

something of a double edged sword, with both parents and schools

tending to rely rather too heavily on them as a gaurantee of security

rather than as a guide to the suitability of a candidate. I am quite

prepared to believe there are abusers out there who have never been

caught and have never had so much as a parking ticket.

[nimportequoi]

 I am also a little worried that I might be instilling some bad habits. Someone (French) told me with great authority that "whom" was not an English word, that "may I..." when asking for something was archaic and no longer used in English and that "I am" is never spoken or written as two words...

Sorry about going off topic here, but I never teach 'I am' and in the millions of grammar books that I now possess students are always taught I'm, they're etc. as it is a more natural way of speaking (and even writing now). 'May I' - I agree this is still still in use, although more so with children, funnily enough - most adults would say 'could/can I'. As for 'whom' - in many cases this has been replaced by the more informal use of who, but it it still exists! I would say

'this is Mike, who I work with' rather than 'this is Mike with whom I work'

And it is rarely used in questions 'Whom did they arrest?' is much less natural than 'Who did they arrest?'

Don't you just love it when the French correct your English grammar???

 

[YCCMB]

[quote user="Jon D"]
I have never had a criminal record check, to answer another posting on this subject. From some of the things I have read about them, they are something of a double edged sword, with both parents and schools tending to rely rather too heavily on them as a gaurantee of security rather than as a guide to the suitability of a candidate. I am quite prepared to believe there are abusers out there who have never been caught and have never had so much as a parking ticket.
[/quote]

Oh, well, that's all right, then!

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="SusanAH"]

 I am also a little worried that

I might be instilling some bad habits. Someone (French) told me with

great authority that "whom" was not an English word, that "may I..."

when asking for something was archaic and no longer used in English and

that "I am" is never spoken or written as two words...

Sorry about going off topic here, but I never teach 'I am' and in

the millions of grammar books that I now possess students are always

taught I'm, they're etc. as it is a more natural way of speaking (and

even writing now). 'May I' - I agree this is still still in use,

although more so with children, funnily enough - most adults would say

'could/can I'. As for 'whom'  in many cases this has been replaced

by the more informal use of who, but it it still exists! I

would say

'this is Mike, who I work with' rather than 'this is Mike with whom I work'

And it is rarely used in questions 'Whom did they arrest?' is much less natural than 'Who did they arrest?'

Don't you just love it when the French correct your English grammar???

[/quote]

I agree - "I'm" is certainly more current in speech (though "I am"

exists in emphatic usage, and this is something that both of my more

recently acquired grammatical tomes agree on), but his point was that

the uncondensed form is NEVER used. Which it is. And he was claiming

that "whom" is not even a word! Unfortunately I didn't have a

dictionary to hand at the time. I could have bludgeoned him with it.

To be honest, I would use "whom" in your first example sentence (but

only because I was brought up - rightly or wrongly - never to end a

sentence with a preposition. Yet I would not use it in the second, even

though I would believe it to be wrong, simply because it does sound

more natural.

Things would be clearer if there existed an "académie anglais" to

cast such things in stone, though I can't help feeling that this would

not necessarily be in the best interests of the language.

I'm not going on strike - I've not been invited. [:(]

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Croixblanches"]

[quote user="Jon D"]

I have never

had a criminal record check, to answer another posting on this subject.

From some of the things I have read about them, they are something of a

double edged sword, with both parents and schools tending to rely

rather too heavily on them as a gaurantee of security rather than as a

guide to the suitability of a candidate. I am quite prepared to believe

there are abusers out there who have never been caught and have never

had so much as a parking ticket.

[/quote]

Oh, well, that's all right, then!

[/quote]

I'm not sure I get your meaning. The last thing I think is that it is "all right."

[nimportequoi]

To be honest, I would use "whom" in your first example sentence (but only because I was brought up - rightly or wrongly - never to end a sentence with a preposition.

As Winston Churchill once said, "ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put". With the number of phrasal verbs we use now it is difficult to avoid! Can't seem to get the quotes working today, sorry. Did someone finally manage to break the system on another thread?

[powerdesal]

No, but we are trying again, please join in the scientific experiment [:D]

[KathyC]

[quote user="SusanAH"]

Sorry about going off topic here, but I never teach 'I am' and in the millions of grammar books that I now possess students are always taught I'm, they're etc. as it is a more natural way of speaking (and even writing now). 'May I' - I agree this is still still in use, although more so with children, funnily enough - most adults would say 'could/can I'. As for 'whom' - in many cases this has been replaced by the more informal use of who, but it it still exists! I would say

'this is Mike, who I work with' rather than 'this is Mike with whom I work'

 

[/quote]

But if students want to study or work in an English speaking country they'll need to be able to write more formally and not use the condensed form of verbs. Also,"may I?" doesn't mean the same thing as "can I?" even if many British people confuse the two. It sounds as though the children you mention understand this difference as they are  obviously asking for permission. Learning to use formal (correct) as opposed to informal English is a skill many British children have difficulties with, but it's important nonetheless.

[Owens88]

Just spent a fortmnight working in a primary and secondary school in UK. I always tried to use 'may I ?' when borrrowing something like a ruler or even when wanting to offer a different way  of doing stuff. They all knew I was asking for permission, even if some of them did look slightly astounded that I was asking !

[nimportequoi]

[quote user="KathyC"][quote user="SusanAH"]

Sorry about going off topic here, but I never teach 'I am' and in the millions of grammar books that I now possess students are always taught I'm, they're etc. as it is a more natural way of speaking (and even writing now). 'May I' - I agree this is still still in use, although more so with children, funnily enough - most adults would say 'could/can I'. As for 'whom' - in many cases this has been replaced by the more informal use of who, but it it still exists! I would say

'this is Mike, who I work with' rather than 'this is Mike with whom I work'

 

[/quote]

But if students want to study or work in an English speaking country they'll need to be able to write more formally and not use the condensed form of verbs. Also,"may I?" doesn't mean the same thing as "can I?" even if many British people confuse the two. It sounds as though the children you mention understand this difference as they are  obviously asking for permission. Learning to use formal (correct) as opposed to informal English is a skill many British children have difficulties with, but it's important nonetheless.

[/quote]

I don't agree, 'May I' does mean the same as 'Can I' (when you are talking about permission) except that it is considered more polite. People do write with the condensed version of words nowadays. As for the formal writing, most writing is now done via e mail (except for legal documents for example) and I think you will find that is very informal. At least this is what I've found in the experience I've had of teaching French adults who use English to communitate in writing for the last 4 years. Language is constantly evolving and I think it is important to keep up to date with this when teaching. I'm not talking about obvious bad grammar, I don't teach 'we was', but things like phrasal verbs are constantly used by British and US people instead of the original word, so it's important to teach things like this, or foreigners will never understand them in meetings. I've also had to teach some txt messaging (CUL8R)and abbreviations (IMHO) as people also need to understand that in the course of their work. It's a waste of the students time and my time to teach things that will never be used in the modern world.

[SaligoBay]

[quote user="KathyC"]But if students want to study or work in an English speaking country they'll need to be able to write more formally and not use the condensed form of verbs. [/quote]

But the majority of students won't be going to study or work in English-speaking countries.   Those who want to will learn the "proper" way at the appropriate time. 

SusanAH is right, nowadays you teach everyday English, not academic English.  The primary aim is to give them exposure to the language and to overcome any fear they have of speaking it.