Fay Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 Does anyone know if there is a new law coming in October that gives tenants more rights? I am about to complete on a house that had a tenant and have been promised all along that she would be out by the date of the Acte (currently scheduled for 30 september) but she is still there - keeps saying she's found something and then it 'falls through'. I am worried that she is stalling until she has more protection and that I will lose 'my' lovely house (obviously not going to sign with a sitting tenant). I'm getting desperate, despite the assurances of the Notaire and the agent... Fay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpprh Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 HiI don't know of any changes to increase the tenants rights.However, if it is an unfurnished lease, it is very difficult to remove sitting tennants.Presuming they are paying the rent, and are within the terms of the lease, they should have been offered the opportunity to buy the property. It is one of the provisions to end the lease.Even if they are within the terms of the lease, you cannot expulse them October to March. The legal process is long and tortuous.In fact it is so difficult to remove a sitting tennant, that owners often pay a cash lump sum for them to leave.Your position does sound worrying. Did the compromis have a clause suspensive something like "subject to free possession" (i.e. no tenants !) ?Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 Sounds like a simple case of dragging it out til the end October to benefit from the no evictions during the winter law.Incidentally the law was changed earlier this year so that furnished tenancies now benefit from very similar rules to those which apply to unfurnished tenancies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard.w Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 I feel sorry for the tenent I can imaagine getting thrown out of their home so that the English can make it a holliday home (even if that is not the case thats how the locals will see it and it will not be a good start with the locals) is there no way you can find somewere else sorry to be like this but I was in a similar house in the UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 I'm sure that, given that the French legal process moves so slowly, that the tenant has had ample time to arrange alternative accomodation.My concerns lie with the prospective buyer, who may find herself in an awkward position to say the least. Get in touch with your Notaire and get this matter sorted before you part with any more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 >>I feel sorry for the tenent I can imaagine getting thrown out of their home so that the English can make it a holliday home (even if that is not the case thats how the locals will see it and it will not be a good start with the locals) is there no way you can find somewere else sorry to be like this but I was in a similar house in the UK<<<Not really Fays problem is it ? She just wants to take possesion of what she is paying for. Any complaint should be addressed to the SELLER !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 I'm sure that, given that the French legal process moves so slowly, that the tenant has had ample time to arrange alternative accommodation.They sure do, so assuming that the tenant wants to stay, after 1st November they will be safe until 15 March. Which means that if court proceedings start then, it will probably be April at the very earliest that the property will be vacated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard.w Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 "Not really Fays problem is it ? She just wants to take possesion of what she is paying for"Im sure she does its a hard life 4 all I hope that everyone gets sorted good luck to both fay and the tenent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpprh Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 [quote]I'm sure that, given that the French legal process moves so slowly, that the tenant has had ample time to arrange alternative accommodation. They sure do, so assuming that the tenant wants to stay...[/quote]And you have to give six months notice of expulsion ! PeterBTW, been there & done that ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave&Olive Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 this could be a new side line have your unwanted tenants dragged out with a minnidigger just joking or am i ??? dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted September 21, 2005 Author Share Posted September 21, 2005 Thanks everyone for all your help - I knew I could rely on you guys! It is a relief to know a bit more about the winter tenancy thing - eg that it starts on 1 November, not 1 October. But, yes, the house is let unfurnished, which obviously adds to the complications. For info, I am doing my very best not to be a wicked person who dumps anyone on the streets - when my (late) husband and I signed our compromis in mid-April (!) it was with a clause to say that the property would be empty on signing of the Acte and we were assured by everyone, including the tenant, that this would not be a problem. When the date came up for signing the Acte at the end of July, and she was still in situ, I agreed to postpone to give the tenant more time. In August I was told that she had found a new place that would be free from 15 September so the Acte was set for 30 Sept (again, my suggestion, to give her more time to move her things out) - 15th came and went and she's still there....As to making a bad start with the locals, my husband and I had known and loved the town for many years and have friends both French and English there, so someone will still be speaking to me (I hope)!I hope to post with cheerier news soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 I think you are being very patient and understanding - probably more than I would be!I do think it is shocking that the tenant can give everyone the run around like this and I hope things go your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted October 10, 2005 Author Share Posted October 10, 2005 I promised I would post with an update when anything happened. Last thing was when I went over to sign my Acte on 30 September and, the night before, the tenant told us that her new rental had fallen through. We all trooped along to the Notaire's the next day (inc tenant) and the Juissance (ownership) clause of the Acte had been changed from 'vacant possession' to one that effectively made me the landlord of a sitting tenant so, on the advice of my French lawyer (and my own common sense!), I refused to sign, causing much kerfuffle. As this was the third attempt at this whole thing I said 'one more time and then I have to withdraw and will expect compensation from the vendors'.Anyway, the vendors, whose fault this whole thing is, not the tenant's or mine, have now paid her a susbstantial sum (though less than they'd've had to pay me) and she has found a nice new house in the village and is out, keys returned to the agent. But I'll still only believe it when I see it next Sunday and sign on the dotted line Monday at 10am!It has been interesting/enlightening to see the other post here from a tenant whose landlord is trying to get her out at short notice. I am lucky that the tenant of my house bears me no ill will - we agree that the landlords are at fault for having signed a Compromis with a July completion date when they had no legal right to assume any such thing would be possible.A lot of lessons to be learned all round... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard.w Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Fantastic and I am so glad that those that deserve to be stuffed (the landlord) had to pay out I hope it was a lot Im happy for you and the tenant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Well done Fay, I'm sure your sensible handling of the matter helped.Good Luck for next week, I hope you will have many happy times in your new home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 I am really pleased it has worked out for you at last. I am just curious as to why the vendor was the baddy in all this. I have no idea how the letting laws work here but I thought the vendors had given the tenant ample notice to move ? ( which is how the process works in the UK) The tenant, it seems, after months of 'bad luck' was suddenly able to find alternative accomodation when she was given some cash, is it normal to have to buy / bribe tenants to move out, if there is a legal tenancy agreement in force? It is possible that we may rent out a property in the future, prior to selling , which is a stressful business, without having to cope with mardy tenants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 ***It is possible that we may rent out a property in the future, prior to selling , which is a stressful business, without having to cope with mardy tenants.***As a tenant here in France - no way would I ever be mardy - I was informed by the owner of the house we are renting that our 3 year tenancy was renewable indefinitely if we wanted, we could give her 3 months notice of our intention to leave at any time, she could only give us 6 months notice to leave at the time a valid tenancy was coming to an end. If she needed the house vacant at any other time, ie in order to sell it, then she would have to sell it with us as sitting tenants or pay us a sum for the inconvenience we would be put to in moving to suit her. As far as I am aware the only legal way she could get her house back without such a payment being made was if she suddenly needed the house to live in herself.So IMHO the tenant in question in this case was not being mardy - just expecting to receive what she understood she would receive in such circumstances - a vexation payment.Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourangelle Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Viva, I think you'd better avoid renting your property out, it is nothing like the UK here, tenancy laws are on the side of the tenant here. The law says very clearly, that if the property is sold, then the rental agreement is unaffected. Therefore the tenant could have stayed, there is no notion of "giving notice". However if the tenancy agreement reached its end, then, the owner could sell the property, and would have to give the tenant first refusal on the asking price, otherwise they would have to move. So the vendor was indeed the baddy, if the rental period had not ended, which was presuably the case, as money exchanged hands and the tenant in no way "mardy" as you put it, but perfectly within his/her right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Ok I've got itYes I can see why you would need to offer compensation to a tenant if the tenancy agreement was still valid .( I would expect that myself for inconvenience) . It was just my reading and misunderstanding of the original post, that led me to believe that the tenancy agreement would finish in september and so I just thought the tenant was being deliberately awkward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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