We are in France so we must speak French...why?

[Miki]

Betty,

Your  point was better made, than my point [:)]

Late last year, whilst  at Le Mont St Michel (for the millionth time with friends/ family visitors) we ate lunch in Pontorson. A British lady on a neighbouring table lit up a cigarette but the lady was careful to blow it away from our table, the people with her were pleasant enough and she had even asked it was OK to smoke. A French chap from another table came over to ask for the spare ashtray on their table. With that, the man with the lady went off on one, and said in English, that they had asked to smoke and to mind his own business. The poor chap stood back, not understanding the language. Quickly one of our party said to the British chap, that the man simply wanted the other ashtray, to which he said "no he didn't, he wanted my wife to put her fag out" untrue of course but.................

A situation was avoided, when it was explained to the Frenchman that it was a misunderstanding but even then, even though the poor lady was embarrassed, the chap still held on to his belief that the man believed ther chap wanted his wife to put her fag out............even though the French chap had taken the other ashtray and was indeed, smoking.

[saddie]

To me being able to speak French (not well admittedly) is a matter of necessity. We can hope to find an English speaker as Cat says but can you be sure that if you have to phone SAMU in the middle of the night you will be understood in English? I had to do just that back in the summer.

[Miki]

[quote] Miki - the quote said that all French people hate the British for helping them out in the war. [/quote]

 

I know Dick, I just wanted to explain what had happened to me. I agree, naturally it is not all but there are, I would hazard a guess, a sufficient amount of folks, who are still alive, if  pressed, who did not entirely believe that our leaving was for the good of France in the end.  Some people want to forget, some people cannot forget. Older Malouins are still quite unhappy at how Saint Malo was blasted to bits, they believe unneccessarily so. You speaking to some, as I have done, makes an even cross section doesn't it ?  So I have to say, it may not be many, or perhaps it is ?  Either way, there are certainly some still are not au fauit with the retreat. Many thankfully (or not, they have to be honest to themselves after all) see the fuller picture.

Another quick story, where we had a place in Provence, the war memorial had a tribute close by, to Jean Moulin and the maquis from that part of Provence. Among the inscription, it states the words "Killed by the barbarous Hun". Some people in Provence, in those parts, have no time for Germans whatsoever, the campsite owner, who we knew very well, delighted in offering them shadeless pitches among the scrub but other locals wanted bygones to be bygones, even though we knew from others, that in some of their hearts, they detested them and that's the point. I may have spoken to many others, who felt like those that gave me a hard time but they just wanted to take an apero with me and let the dark times of the past go......................

[RumziGal]

[quote user="Teamedup"]

Something strikes me about the medical aspect of this. In english we don't use the 'medical' terms to describe many ailments. Would it be the doctors fault IF they misunderstood spoken english and mistreat the patient ? I wouldn't blame any doctor, dentist or pharmacist for only speaking french. [/quote]

So true.  I was quite alarmed the first time someone told me they had an "angine".  [:)]

[quote user="Teamedup"]I was in hospital for quite some time last year. They hadn't even got the time for french speakers, [/quote]

TU, surely you mean "they had all the time in the world for every patient......"  [6]

[Teamedup]

In the 1980's german registered cars that were left unattended up in the Vercor mountains  could find them vandalised. I don' t know  whether that still happens but it did then.

 

 

[Teamedup]

You are naughty Rumzigal, time for every patient indeed........... mon oeil[6]

[Deimos]

When I moved here I spoke French from the school "O" level days (after many years of forgetting it. I took some classes from a retired French teacher in the village which helped. However, it is using the language every day that has helped me make real improvements (though things are still quite limited).

There are not many other Brits around where I live (I know of one or two but have never actually met them) and virtually nobody speaks English. I have sort of got in the habit of always speaking in French (even when somebody does answer me in English). As others have said, when you try it seems appreciated and I've not yet hit any brick walls. Also, the trying (rather than searching and English speaking ...) helps ones language skills improve. That said, I saw somebody mentioned about somebody seeking an English speaking dentist. I have always found the "seeking English speaking vets" unnecessary as one can manage pretty easily with very limited language - but when it comes to dentists and pain I can sympathise.

I remember seeing somebody moving to France seeking a "total immersion" French course in France for after they had moved here. Sort of struck me that all you really need to do is "get out there" and speak to people and you have your "real world total immersion" (plus you get to meet and know local people as well).

As to the importance of speaking French - probably depends on why you are here and the type of life you are seeking (and where). For me its important (always was) but I can imaging other people's aims and lifestyles where it would not be high on their priorities. I would not really want to say "right" or "wrong" about that.

Ian

[TreizeVents]

A couple of comments, although the subject seems to be covered well by

everyone else.  I know Brits who make no effort at all with French, and

are perfectly happy.  They prefer to find someone who speaks English, but

they don't actually expect everyone in their neighbourhood to speak English

jsut because they live there.  It is, of course, the most popular language

for young people to learn, and they do, for obvious reasons.

I have learned to distinguish between various French people.  I am one of

those people who hang out in one of the clumps of old geezers on market

day.  That's me and the cycle club.  They think I am perfectly

integrated, and speak great French.  I know the cycling vocabulary, for

example.  But they are impressed with my efforts and seldom correct me,

even praise me, since they speak no English, except "my tailor is

rich", and "the sun is shining".  They are mostly local or

working class folks.  Middle class intellectual types or "cultivés",

especially in big cities and particularly in Paris, are fond of

correction.  They are not deeply impressed with my French.  And never

will be.  So I say to hell with them and carry on talking as best I

can.  They know exactly what I mean, with a few exceptions.  Many of

them speak English, but they would not dare do so, as they would make mistakes

and I would get to correct them.  Unless we are alone, then they are a bit

better.  There are also really local folks (I live in the Midi), who know

nothing about English, do not speak slower for me (as do some others), don't

even have another "better accent" (as did many of my neighbours in

deepest Yorkshire), do not bother to listen very well, and are something of a

drag.  I am in associations with such people.  They are a bit

anti-English mainly on account of having no experience other than a local

experience.  They are afraid of the unknown. As

many of us are, its not their fault as such. 

 I carry on speaking with them

too, but tend to realise we will never be mates.  As far as shops go, I

can deal with that, and they need to deal with me as its business.  Having

said that, we have particularly rude shopkeepers here in the sticks.  We

notice this every time we go to the big city or even to a neighbouring more up

market town.  So for me there are various kinds of French people with

various kinds of attitudes toward foreign folk speaking their sacred

tongue.  But I cannot imagine how anyone could possibly contemplate a full

and rich life in France without making efforts to speak French.  Imagine

what we would think if some German person came to a rural English town and

expected people to learn German.  Or even if the thousands of young people

going to London expected the residents there to speak their language. 

Just does not make sense to me, even though I know people like that. 

Fortunately in the cases where people don't try to learn, usually one person in

the family speaks good French.  The other is just totally dependent. 

Is this a good life?  Is this a wise strategy?  Is this even

civilised and polite and respectful?

[Dick Smith]

[quote user="Teamedup"]

In the 1980's german registered cars that were left unattended up in the Vercor mountains  could find them vandalised. I don' t know  whether that still happens but it did then.

 

 

[/quote]

The only real problems I've had in France were when I was taken for German. It's the name - many French people who ungratefully don't speak perfect English think that it is Schmitt...

[tj]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]Miki - the quote said that all French people hate the British for helping them out in the war.

[/quote]

 

Who's quote is that exactly?

[Dick Smith]

Yours, I believe:

"Lets not forget, they do hate the brits generally, never forgiven us for helping them out in the war, go figure!!"

[Patf]

Here's another reason for trying to speak french as much as possible - a Canadian researcher found that french/english bilingual people had  a later onset of altzheimers disease than those only speaking one language. There was a difference of 4-5 years ie 75/6 as against 71/2 .She concludes that the mental exercise of making the effort to translate, understand etc keeps the brain ticking over with consequent improvement in memory and mental agility. Pat.

[Wendy]

I think I should have chosen a different title for my post!

Yes, I believe it IS common courtesy to use the lingo of the country you are living in.

But, having said that, how many French are leaving France because of the 'foreigners' moving here?

How many English leave England because of the foreigners moving there?...I'll bet no-one will own up to that one. And we all know from the magazine and newspaper articles that 'too many foreigners' in England is a major reason for the English leaving England. But they are quite happy being the foreigners somewhere else.

I also note that ALL of you are responding from areas where the English have already moved in and made your presence felt. So dont critisise us because we live in an area where the english language is not well known; heard at all; or, even welcomed.

Do you all expect every single person who gets off a plane at Heathrow to speak fluent English just because they are in England?

All I said was this: if anyone came to me and I could communicate with them, no matter what language it was, what is the problem with that?

The French have left it too late to preserve their language by building an empire, but with so many pseudo-french moving here at least they will succeed in their own country.

[Bugsy]

[quote user="wen"]

But, having said that, how many French are leaving France because of the 'foreigners' moving here?

[/quote]

36 ?.............................................................[Www]

[hastobe]

[quote user="Bugbear"][quote user="wen"]

But, having said that, how many French are leaving France because of the 'foreigners' moving here?

[/quote]

36 ?.............................................................[Www]

[/quote]

But then the French are 30 years or so behind the Brits...or so everyone says [;-)]

[YCCMB]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]The only real problems I've had in France were when I was taken for German. It's the name - many French people who ungratefully don't speak perfect English think that it is Schmitt...
[/quote]

 

As someone who has an unequivocally German surname (despite it being the only word I can pronounce properly in German!) I've never been taken for  German in France. When I have to give my surname, it's actually pleasantly surprising to find that, compared to England, I hardly ever have to spell it out in France. If anyone looks vaguely puzzled, I only have to say "comme l'électroménager" and they instantly spell it right...........

[Unknown]

[quote user="wen"]

I think I should have chosen a different title for my post!

Yes, I believe it IS common courtesy to use the lingo of the country you are living in.

But, having said that, how many French are leaving France because of the 'foreigners' moving here?

Are you now asking another question as clearly you don't like the responses you have received so far.

How many English leave England because of the foreigners moving there?...I'll bet no-one will own up to that one. Can you read peoples minds now?  And we all know from the magazine and newspaper articles that 'too many foreigners' in England is a major reason for the English leaving England. But they are quite happy being the foreigners somewhere else.  So you believe everything you read in the media!

I also note that ALL of you are responding from areas where the English have already moved in and made your presence felt. So dont critisise us because we live in an area where the english language is not well known; heard at all; or, even welcomed.  You are the one that brought it up.  Don't go asking a question, then when you don't like the answers, moan about being critisised.

Do you all expect every single person who gets off a plane at Heathrow to speak fluent English just because they are in England? No, why do you?

All I said was this: if anyone came to me and I could communicate with them, no matter what language it was, what is the problem with that?  No problem, You are makingit a problem

The French have left it too late to preserve their language by building an empire, but with so many pseudo-french moving here at least they will succeed in their own country.  What planet are you on?

[/quote]

[Bugsy]

Oh, come on Dotty, say what you really mean.................................[:D][:D][:D]

[Blitzen]

[quote user="wen"]

How many English leave England because of the foreigners moving there?

[/quote]

We're moving to France because we can't afford to buy a halfway decent house in UK.

Some of the best conversations I've had, have been where I speak 'my french, and the person I'm speaking to speaks 'their English'!![:D]

[Miki]

Betty,

Is it Rommel ?  or  Beckanbaur ? or Fridge ? Mmmm.............surely not....Fräulein Bouilloire ?

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Miki"]Betty,

Is it Rommel ?  or  Beckanbaur ? or Fridge ? Mmmm.............surely not....Fräulein Bouilloire ?


[/quote]

Volkswagen ?.........................................

[tj]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]Yours, I believe:

"Lets not forget, they do hate the brits generally, never forgiven us for helping them out in the war, go figure!!"
[/quote]

Miki - the quote said that all French people hate the British for helping them out in the war.

looks somewhat like a  misquote to me ?

Dick! as you are well aware, this forum is full those who wish to argue for arguments sake, misquotes are not helpful, although we all make mistakes so no problem.

If we want to get down to the "b*****ks" of the matter, as one poster saw fit to call it,

If we assume our own characters, likes, dislikes, tolerances are shaped throughout our lives, based on personal experiences, of course a large part of our impressionable years are spent, learning from the likes, dislikes, and tolerances of the society we are born into, whether they be right or wrong is irrelevant.

So that means our differences and therefore our tolerances and handed down from one generation to the next.

It is historic fact, the differences between the french and english have existed for centuries, two countries with the same ambitions, of territorial demands, superiority in europe etc etc. The problem of course, as is true today they always lagged behind Britain in terms of wealth, military, and political influence. The one other point worthy of mention is the legal systems have always been at odds, innocent til proven guilty in Britain and guilty till proven innocent in France.

These issues form part of every frenchmans heritage and culture, and therefore has bearing on how foreigners are tolerated here ( in a lesser form but not dissimilar to the way the Americans are viewed by a large part of the world.)

That said, our own experiences here have been very positive, and we are happy here, except for, as I mentioned previously, when dealing with bureaucracy and french systems generally, where the demands for money roll in, from govt agencies and others who offer less than acceptable tolerance to simple requests for advice, information and assistance from the very people they expect to pay them. 

 

   

[Unknown]

[quote user="Bugbear"]Oh, come on Dotty, say what you really mean.................................[:D][:D][:D][/quote]

Well, flippin eck.

[Bugsy]

[quote user="tj"]

"Lets not forget, they do hate the brits generally, never forgiven us for helping them out in the war, go figure!!"

If we assume our own characters, likes, dislikes, tolerances are shaped throughout our lives, based on personal experiences, of course a large part of our impressionable years are spent, learning from the likes, dislikes, and tolerances of the society we are born into, whether they be right or wrong is irrelevant.

So that means our differences and therefore our tolerances and handed down from one generation to the next.

It is historic fact, the differences between the french and english have existed for centuries, two countries with the same ambitions, of territorial demands, superiority in europe etc etc. The problem of course, as is true today they always lagged behind Britain in terms of wealth, military, and political influence. The one other point worthy of mention is the legal systems have always been at odds, innocent til proven guilty in Britain and guilty till proven innocent in France.

These issues form part of every frenchmans heritage and culture, and therefore has bearing on how foreigners are tolerated here ( in a lesser form but not dissimilar to the way the Americans are viewed by a large part of the world.)

That said, our own experiences here have been very positive, and we are happy here, except for, as I mentioned previously, when dealing with bureaucracy and french systems generally, where the demands for money roll in, from govt agencies and others who offer less than acceptable tolerance to simple requests for advice, information and assistance from the very people they expect to pay them. 

[/quote]

How, exactly, does any of the above actually justify your original quote...................?

[Tay]

[quote user="wen"]

And we all know from the magazine and newspaper articles that 'too many foreigners' in England is a major reason for the English leaving England.

[/quote]

Didn't you mean 'rag' rather than 'newspaper' articles?

French people around here don't speak English; I don't expect them to.  I expect to speak French, after all, I live here.  Occasionally a French person will try out their English - I always respond in French.  There aren't many permanent Brits here (mostly holiday homes), more Dutch in fact, so I don't expect the locals to speak any English.  I don't think that the French particularly like the Brits here, but they generally tolerate them. 

There are two things that remind me of the fact that the British invasion isn't welcomed here.  Firstly, when my relatives visted a couple of years ago, we went out shopping in a large town.  It was the first time I had been out in a British registered vehicle since living here.  As we were going past a bar in the car, some 20-something year old men were standing in the kerb, and one shook his fist at the car whilst walking towards it.  My brother-in-law locked the car doors; my sister and mother didn't notice the young blokes gesture or the door locking.  That's probably a good thing, as I would never had heard the end of it from my mother.

The next incidents occurred in a small, friendly town at different times.  This town has a lively campsite where many rosbifs stay during the summer.  The first incident was when I had just come out of the local bar (buying tobacco) and returned to the car.  As I approached, some local children across the road yelled out various things ("microbes" etc) at some noisy English people walking along.  A few weeks ago in the same town, a stretch limo (UK) was parked in the main car park, along with a rather posh British Jaguar.  Someone had thrown a brick through the rear window of the Jag.  I've never seen that happen to a French vehicle.

I didn't leave England to escape the 'foreigners'.  In fact, Britain's multi-cultural society is one of the few things that I like about the UK.  I don't expect them to get off the ferry or plane and immediately speak English, but I expect them to make the effort to learn.  Many Brits here do not, and refuse to learn French.  One man I know has lived here for more than 15 years and is quite proud of the fact that he doesn't speak French.  These non-French speakers tend to live in little English enclaves and seem quite happy there, although some of them have returned to the UK as things didn't work out as they expected here...