Smoking ban in a few weeks in restaurants, cafés and so on

[Tourangelle]

So are you looking forward to it, or dreading it?  Although smoking has been banned in the work place since February it is coming into force in restaurants, bar, cafes and so on in January.  There was a report about it on France info this morning, saying that it is only really in the tabacs that they think there might be a problem.  Personally, the big change for me was February and most of the restaurants I go to are non- smoking already.

[Gardian]

We're both smokers, but the ban won't really affect us because we normally don't smoke when people are at adjoining tables - which is pretty much 100% of the time. Sorry if that sounds a bit self righteous, but we're accustomed to being monastic when at other people's houses, so it's no particular hardship at a restaurant.

What about outside tables in the Summer though?  Does the ban extend there?

[Tourangelle]

Good question, the person I heard interviewed on the radio this morning was asked this and they said it could be a problem if the serving staff complained.  I think it is in Italy that you are not allowed to smoke at a table outside and apparently it is not in the legislation in France but it could be an issue.

[Tony F Dordogne]

For Jenny and I, it's long overdue, as non smokers it's great that the atmosphere in some of our favourite restos will now be clearer and cleaner so we can enjoy our meal.

[Cendrillon]

Looking forward to that, just hope it works everywhere. I find it hard to imagine that it will happen in our local les Routiers restaurant.

[Kitty]

In the UK, when they introduced it, it was the pubs without beer gardens that have suffered.  All the pubs that had gardens erected outdoor canopy structures for the smokers.

Spoke to a local tabac owner this week, asking if he was going to put up a gazebo outside in his yard.  He says that, reading the rules, smoking is not permiited under anything with a roof (including a gazebo).  He's hoping that people will smoke outdoors and he won't be affected (although not in today's temperatures)!

 

[Scooby]

In the UK pubs have suffered a significant loss of trade since the smoking ban was introduced.  Personally, as a non smoker, I'm in favour of it but I know of a number of pubs that have closed as a result of the loss of trade.

[Ford Anglia]

Didn't I read somewhere that the French government have fudged this anyway, (surely not? Not the French??), by making the fine for non-compliance just €1?

Or is that another myth?

[Clair]

[quote user="Ford Anglia"]Didn't I read somewhere that the French government have fudged this anyway, (surely not? Not the French??), by making the fine for non-compliance just €1?

Or is that another myth?

[/quote]

Another myth...

The fine is set at €68 for the smoker.

As  for the café or restaurant owner, he will not be held liable as long as his establishment displays the correct non-smoking signs (€135 fine for non-display) and has not tacitly or clearly encouraged smoking on his premises.

[daisymay]

[quote]   The fine is set at €68 for the smoker.
As  for the café or restaurant owner, he will not be held liable as long as his establishment displays the correct non-smoking signs (€135 fine for non-display) and has not tacitly or clearly encouraged smoking on his premises.
[/quote]

So who is going to enforce the ban? Tha bar owners have no interest. Not the poor gendarmes again. I dont see where they will find the time between their general police duties and breath testing, checking for people using phones whilst driving, checking that all pools have adequate security etc etc... Seriously, not all new laws can be enforced without the "buy in" and responsibility of those who have premises where the offence is commonplace.

[Benjamin]

This ban was introduced in Spain some two years ago and if there was one country where you expected problems then Spain would be it.

Universal acceptance and compliance followed and especially at lunch times when all the workers were eating. Oh ye of liitle faith. [:-))]

[bourrut]

hi, in barcelona and mallorca ,all bars restaurants have signs on their doors saying, no smoking ,smoking allowed ,or smoking area ,2years ago when ban was started quite a few bars went no smoking but notice most have changed back due to lack of business.

[Frederick]

I am not a smoker ...but ..would be happy to see smokers pubs / restaurants  continue ..so I would know which ones to avoid going to....Why cant the authorites come up with  a licence to be issued to a percentage of establishments who wish to continue with smoking ....If there are only 20% of a towns population who smoke then issue that number of licences to smoker establishments .... if the proprieters could not decide between themselves who would and who would not take them up ... then declare them all non smoker if no volunteers .... I bet there would found  be a place for smokers to go and eat and drink then ....a place for smoker staff to work as well......... and this way.......everybody satisfied

[Quillan]

What I want to know (and I am a smoker by the way) is that if smoking is so dangerouse in that it not only kills the smoker but other people via passive smoking and that it costs the health services (in every country) an absolute fortune to treat the many different illness's that we are told smoking causes then why has not been made illegal and treated in the same way as class 'A' drugs.

I would also like to know why the tobaco companies are still in existance, I mean every smoker in the world should be lining up to sue them as should be the families of those that have died through smoking and they should have been made bankrupt years ago.

In backing what was said about pubs one only has to look at the state of Guiness (they don't just make Guiness in case some are not aware) in Ireland where they had the ban first. In the UK it's gone differently, people are leaving the pubs and drinking more at home. Supermarket sales of beer have rocketed I am told but is this a good thing?

Bring back the days of the smoking room in pubs [;-)]

[Frederick]

Quillon. I agree  The pity is ....there are very few proper pubs left now with open fires and smoking rooms / public bars ..Certainly in my area the old Dorset pubs have become restaurants now that people drive miles  to visit . Our local  a few years ago had such a room where on a Sunday you were likely to find a  smelly wet labrador drying in front of the fire while his equally smelly wax jacketed  and pipe smoking owner  had a couple of pints .... having come in off a farm . ...Its had the middle ripped out now  along with the bowling alley and an island bar put in  with  table cubicals set all round .....I dont go in it now... we have lost a focal point in our community.. but the brewery has gained a popular restaurant to go with all  the others it owns in the County . so I have joined the drink at home brigade I suppose .

[Thibault]

I am a non-smoker.  When I was a child, every adult in my family smoked so I spent my life in smoky rooms.  It was foul.  It put me off for life.  As an adult, I hated going into pubs and restaurants where, despite any attempts at air conditioning etc, smoke would find its way everywhere.  The next day, my clothes and hair stank of the stuff.

In more recent years, I have found it really horrible to be half-way through a meal and to experience people at the next tables lighting up between courses and blowing their smoke over my meal.

I am really looking forward to the freedom of eating/drinking in smoke free environments.  I know there are arguments put forward regarding the health implications of smoking in public places, but for me, regardless of that, it is the foul smell which is really off-putting.

Smokers talk about their freedom to smoke in public, but what about the freedom of people to have a smoke-free environment?

Although the notion of a "smoking room" where people could smoke if they wished sounds attractive, it is impossible to prevent smoke from "travelling".

So, perhaps, smoking should be an activity between consenting adults in the privacy of their own homes.  [:D]

[Cendrillon]

Thibault

Well you have just given an excellent reply IMHO

Pubs / restaurants minus smoke = O.K. as far as I am concerned

[Sprogster]

One of the main considerations I believe why legislators have been pursuaded to bring in smoking bans is a reason overlooked by previous posters, which is to protect non smoking employees in the work place, who are in the sizeable majority these days. Therefore, if you ban smoking in the work place, by definition you have to extend that to all working places including bars and restaurants.

An often overlooked potential problem for employers who do not comply, is the risk of being sued by ex employees years hence if they develop lung disease, now that passive smoking is generally accepted by the medical profession as a health risk. (Remember Roy Castle?)

If you don't think this is a real risk for employers, just talk to any business that dealt with asbestos up until the eighties!

[Quillan]

[quote user="Thibault"]

I am a non-smoker.  When I was a child, every adult in my family smoked so I spent my life in smoky rooms.  It was foul.  It put me off for life.  As an adult, I hated going into pubs and restaurants where, despite any attempts at air conditioning etc, smoke would find its way everywhere.  The next day, my clothes and hair stank of the stuff.

In more recent years, I have found it really horrible to be half-way through a meal and to experience people at the next tables lighting up between courses and blowing their smoke over my meal.

I am really looking forward to the freedom of eating/drinking in smoke free environments.  I know there are arguments put forward regarding the health implications of smoking in public places, but for me, regardless of that, it is the foul smell which is really off-putting.

Smokers talk about their freedom to smoke in public, but what about the freedom of people to have a smoke-free environment?

Although the notion of a "smoking room" where people could smoke if they wished sounds attractive, it is impossible to prevent smoke from "travelling".

So, perhaps, smoking should be an activity between consenting adults in the privacy of their own homes.  [:D]

[/quote]

I agree with some of your sentiments but I do disagree with banning smoking from restaurants and pubs (in particular) and I hold both of those business's responsible for the current ban.

Funny enough I don't want people breathing smoke over me when I am eating and often will seek out non smoking restaurants out of choice and choice is the key word here. The reason for this is because, like the pubs, the restaurateurs failed miserably to segregate smokers from no smokers. You can't put smoking signs on table next to non smokers, smokers need to be physically separated i.e. in another room. Smoke should not 'bleed' over if the correct technology is used like air walls at doors etc. There used to be a pub/restaurant in Esher that did this very successfully 20 years ago by introducing a conservatory for the smokers.

The issue with pubs is because as somebody said they want to 'theme' them because they thought they could make more money. I used to like the choice of either the public, saloon, snug and smoking rooms, they all had character. The pubs I visited in London last month had more people outside than in and they were all smoking and there were either gas or electric heaters. Take away the heaters which they want to do because of environmental issues and the smokers simply won't go out for a drink but stay at home and drink or go round their mates. The end result will be that the pubs will close (5 a week according to the Licence Vigulers Association) and there won't be any pubs left for anyone, smokers and non smokers alike. If the pubs and restaurants had listened seriously to both smokers and non smokers and acted ages ago I think things would be different.

Anyway anyone who does not smoke, drink and drive a car is very unpatriotic. How would the NHS get it's money and the pensioners get their state pension if it weren't for us smokers, drinkers and car dirvers. So if you non smokers want to keep your state pensions and have nice free NHS services then you need to treat us proper like and stop complaining [;-)]

I think you should only be able to give birth to children, adopt children or be foster parents if you don't smoke and parents and gardians of such children should be randomly tested to ensure they don't smoke. That way the next generation will all be non smokers, problem solved.

[TWINKLE]

I for one am jumping for joy - the ban can't come soon enough!

As some of you know I am a singer and in the winter I sing with bands in bars, restaurants and concert cafés.  I was working on Thursday night and when we arrived at 6.30pm to set up you could see the huge cloud of smoke from outside!  By 9pm we all had tears rolling down our cheeks and our throats were dry and irritated.  It was hell and it seems that because the ban is just a few days around the corner people were smoking twice as much! 

I'm working again to-night and I'm not relishing the thought of it - especially the disgusting smell of tobaco that will be sticking itself to my hair and clothes - berk!!!!! 

I am working on the 31st December too and I'd like to know if at midnight the ban automatically comes into play or not?  I hope so 'cos' my contract is 'til 5am.

By the way guys! 

Nobody is banning you from smoking - just from smoking around other people who choose NOT to smoke whether life threatening or not. 

Joyeux Noel et Bonne Santé à Tous[:)]

[Quillan]

[quote user="TWINKLE"]

Nobody is banning you from smoking - just from smoking around other people who choose NOT to smoke whether life threatening or not. 

Joyeux Noel et Bonne Santé à Tous[:)]

[/quote]

Well surely the rule applies the other way round as well, don't go to places where people smoke. There should be a choice for everyone, smokers and non smokers alike. Still it's a pointless exercise really as the ban is in and stats on the 1st. I would be interesting to know (I'm not being sarcastic or anything else, just interested) if over the coming year you notice if the audience rate in bars falls.

[TWINKLE]

Personally I'd rather lose work than a lung - you'll probably remember me posting on a similar thread that my dad was a musician and died from passive smoking. 

I went to Spain in September and the cafés and bars were full of families with children eating and drinking in a smoke free atmosphere.  The same was happening when I went to Wales a few weeks ago. 

Somebody mentioned 5 pubs closing a week in Britain I think - surely that's got a lot to do with dirt cheap booze that's being sold in British hypermarkets?

[Deimos]

[quote user="TWINKLE"]

I for one am jumping for joy - the ban can't come soon enough!

As some of you know I am a singer and in the winter I sing with bands in bars, restaurants and concert cafés.  I was working on Thursday night and when we arrived at 6.30pm to set up you could see the huge cloud of smoke from outside!

[/quote]

I don't want to be rude but did you chose your career wisely ?  When you decided to start singing in bars and cafés and were they "full of smoke" at that time.  Your needs have changed so you think is a good idea for everybody else to change to accommodate what you now want.

I'm not a smoker but cannot agree with these smoking bans.  I have no problem about a bar or café deciding to go "non smoking" to attract a different group of people.  But nobody is forced to use them or work in them.  Maybe there should be a bit of "pressure" to encourage more establishments to go no smoking, but then in all other aspects of life we are told commercial pressures and competition result in a good balance so why not with the smoking/non-smoking establishments.

If corrective measures are necessary to establish a better balance between smoking/no-smoking, then maybe a tax reduction of those places being non-smoking (or a cheaper license fee or something along those lines) - better than a complete ban in my opinion.

Ian

[TWINKLE]

I told you this on another similar thread honey bunny - I didn't choose my career - I'm an artiste,  and for 20 years I have been lucky enough to sing most of those years in lovely open air festivals and outdoor functions and concerts. 

I'm just saying that I will be jumping for joy in answer to the OPs question which was...........

 "So are you looking forward to it, or dreading it? "

 

 

[Bugsy]

This is yet another example of legislators taking the easy 'lets ban it all' option. I'm taking no sides in the argument but everyone should be concerned over the blanket banning because one day, for certain, a ban will come along that will affect you.

Why oh why has no consideration been given to people who choose to smoke, it's still a legal activity, after all.

A total ban in restaurants and other places where food is consumed seems perfectly reasonable to me.

A blanket ban in all bars and bar/tabacs is not.

The middle ground would surely be to have smoking venues and non-smoking venues thus giving people the choice as to where to go for a drink or socialise etc.

Those people who insist in flaunting their perceived superiority as non-smokers should, perhaps, try to see things from the smokers point of view.

 

Just my 'Libra' balance coming to the fore.