France or Spain ?

[valB]

I just thought it would be an interesting debate...why did you chose to live in France and not Spain.  We have friends who chose Spain and everytime we meet up they tell us why Spain is best and we obviously do the same about France. Are thre any folk out there that wished they had chosen Spain instead.....I am just cuious.

[Sprogster]

I think one of the main reasons people choose Spain is for the milder climate in winter and I suppose if winter warmth is a prime motivator, France is not exactly the best choice!

 

[Alan Zoff]

I imagine different factors will influence people with different priorities.

I bought in central France because I feel comfortable with the French culture, speak the language (after a fashion) and the climate suits me.

My brother bought in southern Spain, partly because - unlike me - he can soak up endless sun and doesn't miss having proper winters at all, but mainly because the attractive lady he met out there, after his UK divorce, is never going to leave Spain!

I appreciate this can also apply to parts of France, but the Spanish resorts also attract Brits who wish to spend most of their time in the sun with other Brits. The Blackpool on the Med syndrome. My brother lives in a very Spanish village in the mountains but other ex-pats I know can go for days without bumping into a Spanish person! Some Brits see that as an advantage; others I know have left precisely for that reason.

Spanish people don't have quite the same haughty reputation as French people which can make it easier to mix. Personally, I enjoy the challenge (too strong a word for it, but can't think of a better one at moment) of dealing with the French character.

So, as with most things in life, it's horses for courses. And, of course, many people have bought in both countries and switch between the two.   

[Gastines]

I have to confess to reading the Daily Mail and today there is a lengthy article about the number of Brits living in the Dordogne, gives plenty of reasons to live there and to some, a few reasons why not to. We toyed with the idea of moving to Spain ,primarily as daughter etc,now in UK, thinks it might be easier to make a living there than here in Brittany.We are quite happy here,probably as we are in the system and can keep our heads above water,just. It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has moved from France to Spain. I suppose the climate must be a major consideration but after hearing many horror stories relating to property and social aspects,I wonder if any regret it?

Regards.

 

[Kitty]

This week, I visited St Sebatian in Spain and St Jean de Luz in France on the same day.  They are about 20 miles apart.  The two differences that I noticed were:

1. More "druggies", alcoholics and beggars on the streets in Spain.  Indeed, I felt very insecure in Spain as a result.  I've been told that the Spanish are more tolerant than the French.  I wonder if this is true?

2. Friendlier people in Spain e.g. someone stopped us putting money in a meter when we didn't need to, a builder stopped us wandering into a dangerous part of a town - I'm convinced that both these incidents would not have happened in France.

 

[Eos]

[quote user="Cathy"]

...someone stopped us putting money in a meter when we didn't need to,... I'm convinced that [both these incidents] would not have happened in France.[/quote]

I had two incidents recently which cause me to beg to differ. In Beziers, we had a similar situation where we didn't need to feed the meter and a nice lady stopped us from doing so. In a small village just outside the town where we had just parked on our way to meet a friend, my daughter went to put a bar wrapper into the bin only to discover that what she thought was a bin wasn't. A lady coming out of her front gate, having seen the attempt, asked my daughter for the wrapper and put it into her domestic bin.

There's always hope[:)]

 

[Russethouse]

 I'm full of admiration Cathy, twice I have tried that trip and twice we have got lost and ended up having a pleasant lunch in Hendaye......

What I noticed in Spain was the amount of what looked like social housing, but I guess I haven't really visited similar areas in France

[Alan Zoff]

Have had lots of instances along the lines of those described by Eos, admittedly in rural France, rather than in cities. Perhaps it is more a town-v-village thing, rather than one country differing from another. 

[Furry Knickers]

[quote user="Russethouse"]What I noticed in Spain was the amount of what looked like social housing, but I guess I haven't really visited similar areas in France[/quote]

That is so damn cheeky of them Spaniards! Why would they want to provide housing for the poor when so many Brits are looking to buy villas?

I thought San Sebastian was rather nice, but I was glad to get back over the border. I would have to say that if a woman offered to put me litter in her bin, then that is definitely the place for me[:)]  We told the agents that our criteria was a detached wooden house with an attached garden, it had to be habitable and close to a pet shop. We completely overlooked the litter in the bin requirement untill it was too late! Next time that will be the deciding factor in our search for a house in any country or any where else.

[valB]

All these replies are iteresting so keep them coming. We did visit our friends last year and we were pleasantly surprised as they live in the mountains about an hour inland from Alicante and their nearest town was extremely nice and everyone was very friendly. We did ask why they had bars on the windows of their property and although they are on their own in a lot of land the insurance on the property and contents is invalid if no bars are used. Here in our little hamlet we really do feel safe and secure and when we are away our French neighbours offer to keep an eye out for us. It would be nice to hear from someone who has moved from Spain to France for their reasons for the move. I must admit from what our friends have told us it is definately cheaper to live in Spain.

[euro]

interesting question

i have lived in SW France for about 5 yrs now and have regularly travelled to Spain for a holiday (Catalonia)

my observations are :-

food is as good & typically lower priced than France which was a pleasant surprise

people are much more friendly than the French ( no major surprise )

people are more welcoming towards the Brits than the French (ditto)

wine is good !

climate is great !

And the Spanish make a point of stopping there cars promptly at pedestrian crossings which i find the french do not ,which is rather annoying when you are with small kiddies.

 

But the property is a little cher !

 

Euro

[Kitty]

[quote user="euro"]

And the Spanish make a point of stopping there cars promptly at pedestrian crossings which i find the French do not

[/quote]

Euro is right.  That was another difference between St Sebastian (Spain) and St Jean de Luz (France).

 

[Logan]

I have lived and been in business in both countries for a number of years.

In Spain I was also involved in local politics and legal administration.

From this experience, and generally speaking I can say that France functions better in the public sector but Spain is far better for the private sector. Those two facts make a huge difference too many things. In Spain the rule of law is administered hap-hazardly. The country is poorly policed and crime thrives with little or no deterrents. Foreign cash sloshes around some of it legal most of it not. That attracts organised crime and petty criminals on the periphery. That would not be tolerated in France where the money supply is tightly controlled. Business is conducted with cash from the back pocket. The Spanish are completely uninhibited about tax evasion, working without declaration and everyone does it. They do it because they can without sanction, principally because the civil service is weak and practically non existent in some areas. Local officials and politicians are corrupt and work on a scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours basis. It’s traditional and part of the cultural life.

It is possible to be very successful indeed in Spain, especially in property development and related areas. Regulation hardly exists and scruples are thin on the ground. The laws are in place of course but everyone ignores them.

This would all be unthinkable in heavily regulated France.

Both countries have charm. The Spanish are much more tolerant and less prejudiced than the French. Language is just a means of communication not a cultural icon. Where the French tend to be a bit up themselves the Spanish could not care less.

I think that’s why I love France more. France is a more serious country where there is real quality of life and folks care. In Spain everything is come day go day and who gives a monkeys…….

[Alan Zoff]

That's why Spain is so good for holidays. It has a very relaxed atmosphere. But longer term, I would prefer to be part of a culture with greater pride in their way of life. It may be harder work, but more satisfying overall.

 

[Logan]

Well put Allan. France is much harder work and equally as frustrating but for different reasons. I came to the same conclusion as you some while ago but I still love Spain in the winter. I feel now I have the best of both. 

[breizh]

I stayed out of this debate deliberately, but Logan has articled some of my experiences very well.

In 2002 my company moved me to Barcelona for 3 years, I speak perfect spanish, and have easily transferable work skills. Language skills didn't help, everything is in Catalan, probably just to annoy the Castillano speakers, which is just about the whole of Spain.

I can honestly say I have never experienced anything quite like it, I was amazed, nothing works, everything is just a facade! I have to say I no experience of Las Costas Ingles, this was Catalunya, maybe it is different in Andalucia. The cost of living there was astronomical, even compared to London. House prices are 25 (twenty-five!) times average local earnings, food costs were higher than the UK, even in the Hypermarkets (Auchan), water was 9 euros per cubic metre.....etc. Fortunately we had my expat multinational salary, and my french wife did her degree in spanish, so could find work as she could easily pick up Catalan..

I couldn't wait to leave. When I got back to the UK I realised why so many Spaniards from the Barcelona office always applied for any vacancies we had.

Now I've been sent to France. It functions, maybe too slowly if you're in business, but I have a large french family to help us through the maze that is french bureaucracy, and of course my wife lived here for 25 years! Though I'm 25 years off retirement, when "Planet XXXXX" calls for my return I doubt I will heed it. One of the best things about Britain is just how easy it is to acquire wealth from property, so cash it in, and send the missus out to work!

[LanguedocGal]

Logan, your assessment of both countries is very interesting and I agree with you on most points. However, I wondered about the following: 

 Local officials and politicians are corrupt and work on a scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours basis. It’s traditional and part of the cultural life.

I’m surprised you make a distinction between the two countries on this point, as in my eyes, you are also describing France here.

 Quality of life

As it’s subjective, I know that you are talking about what YOU consider it to be. However, ‘quality of life’ differs enormously depending on whether you are 25, 35, 45, 55, 65, 75 etc.  Most people contributing to this forum seem to be within the middle to upper limit of the age cycle, hence your definition is affected by that.

 My point is that I don’t think that ‘quality of life’ in France on the whole is that great. A lot of romantic licence (plus a certain amount of blinkers) is involved in maintaining this myth.  Downsizers’ lives are certainly not a good reference to determine this, as you need to have generated income somewhere to afford this ‘quality of life’. It depends very much on a lot of factors and a French pensioner living on 700 euros a month pension with rent to pay or an average person on the SMIC again with rent to shell out may not quite see the QOL that you enjoy. Also, a relatively well-paid ‘middle income’ person with a normal mortgage, typical everyday expenses, long and expensive commute to work etc may not agree. None of this is unique to France, of course, but it’s also the norm, even if not within the ‘expat’ community.

 I’m not saying that quality of life in France is worse than in Spain, simply that the generalisations by relatively affluent immigrants is not a particularly reliable indicator of the daily drudgery of the average person. Don’t forget that France has an incredibly high suicide and depression rate (how does one explain the QOL in that context?), as indeed Spain has terrible alcohol and domestic abuse problems etc.

I enjoyed  and agreed with 90% of your assessment though. 

Alan Zoff

''That's why Spain is so good for holidays. It has a very relaxed atmosphere. But longer term, I would prefer to be part of a culture with greater pride in their way of life. It may be harder work, but more satisfying overall.''

Are you suggesting that the Spaniards do not have pride in their way of life or have I misunderstood?

[LanguedocGal]

Breizh, with regards to Barcelona, the only thing I recognise in your post is the cost of property. It just shows how we all perceive the same things differently. [:D]

Catalan can be a pain granted but, in my experience, not necessarily in Barcelona itself, unless you are talking about the ‘region’ of Barcelona and not the town.  I’ve lived in Andalucia and can say that Cataluyna is much more expensive.

[Benjamin]

I've also stayed out of this debate as I thought my views were too tainted and biased to be objective.

Logan and breizh have articulated my own thoughts very acurately. We spent many winters in Andalucia either with our caravan or renting but by doing that you don't really get exposure to everyday Spanish life. We eventually bought in a rural situation and our eyes were then well and truly opened.

Everything these two posters have said is true. I am quite a black and white person but everything you try to achieve, be it on a personal level or dealing with bureaucracy, is surrounded by grey, The Andalucians are noted throughout the rest of Spain for telling you what they think you want to hear and not the truth in anything, be it good or bad. I can deal with bad news but not when you find out months down the line that you've been fed a load of old tosh!

On a lighter note we owned a property for nearly five years and bought just before the property boom took off and sold just before it collapsed so not everything was bad news.  [:)]

[Alan Zoff]

[quote user="LanguedocGal"]

 

Alan Zoff

''That's why Spain is so good for holidays. It has a very relaxed atmosphere. But longer term, I would prefer to be part of a culture with greater pride in their way of life. It may be harder work, but more satisfying overall.''

Are you suggesting that the Spaniards do not have pride in their way of life or have I misunderstood? [/quote]

I was talking in relative terms from my personal observations, i.e. the Spanish people I have encountered compared with the French people I know. (And admittedly without experience of a large part of Spain - e.g. central and northern - so perhaps I have a somewhat distorted picture.)

 

[LanguedocGal]

Benjamin, even within Spain, Andalucia is known as a bit of a backwater, so I hate to think what it could have been like to live in rural Andalucia. I lived in Seville (city) and that was challenging enough.

However, are you suggesting that Andalucia was more expensive than where you live now in France? Breizh seemed to  have been shocked by the cost of living in Cataluyna too, but high cost of living in Andalucia, I would not agree; certainly not compared to Languedoc or Cataluyna.

Bureaucracy wise in Andalucia, I agree. I sometimes wanted to smack them to wake them up in Seville.[+o(]  so it must have been praC in rural Andalucia [8-)].

[Logan]

I think perhaps the main difference in the Spanish and French people generally is that the Spanish tend to live for today and take life as it comes. The French on the other hand think long, worry too much and are a little oppressed by the system. I like to think that a middle way between those two poles is about right.

[Georgina]

[quote user="Logan"]

I think perhaps the main difference in the Spanish and French people generally is that the Spanish tend to live for today and take life as it comes. The French on the other hand think long, worry too much and are a little oppressed by the system. I like to think that a middle way between those two poles is about right.

[/quote]

 

Agh that would be the Brits then?

Georgina [:)]

[LEO]

Spain is still smoking ,and in the evenings ,still vibrant!

[inkflo]

Hello to everyone.

We have lived in Spain and now live in France.

We moved to Spain for a cheaper lifestyle (which it was) taxes, food, fuel were all much less than in the UK or France.

We have family in Madrid and it was nice to be able to drive & visit within 5 hours.

What we didn't like was the unbearable heat that went on from May to October, the mossies that plagued our lives for months on end, the lack of close community as people buy & sell all the time there & although we bought a nice house in a good residential area, we were still plagued with noisy tourists drinking & screaming in the pools until the break of day. Crime was bad, we were burgled twice but we knew of people that were burgled many more times & gangs from Eastern Europe operated around the airports robbing tourists in their cars. Noise was the worst thing in Spain as the Spanish don't generally go out until late in the evening, there are fireworks almost nightly during the summer, open air rock bands and dirty, noisy lorries everywhere due to the massive building projects (& we were in a small town on the coast.)

The dreaded land grab was never resolved & people are still having their land stolen and having to pay huge amounts to the government.  Believe me, It wasn't exaggerated & we knew of hundreds of people including the Spanish whose lives were devestated by this awful law.

Some people love noise and a vibrant lifestyle, but for us life in Spain was horrible and we never felt safe there.

France however does suit us. I'm not saying it's perfect, nowhere is.... but green fields, wild animals, peace & quiet are our priorities now.

Yes, it's more expensive than Spain for day to day living but property prices are much less in France and the houses are better built. We would never go back to Spain and have found the French people to be much more friendly and welcoming. 

Fortunately we have now settled happily in France & intend to stay.