Show us your loaves - breadmaking problems !

[Frederick]

   The answer to your bread making problems I found is "Flour Improver " as posted recently (search above for   flour improver  under Bread Makers post's ) a tea spoon of the stuff in with the flour in the Panasonic  or any other machine seems to work for us ..and saved daughter from binning her bread maker as she was having problems with it...........a Panasonic .......There are different kinds of improver  for different breads ... 

[Hereford]

Sorry Gluestick - will remember that if I ever want to post a photo again.

[chessie]

Thanks everyone - I've enjoyed all the stories, including Sweet 17's 'fight' with her machine !!!

And well done Hereford !!! - both for having the courage to show the results of your bread-making (which do seem to be excellent) - but you also learned how to post pix on the forum - congratulations !!!!

I think I'm just going to have to persevere.   I like Frederick's idea of 'Flour Improver' so I think I'm going to try that, and also try to get hold of some UK bread-making flour or bread mixes.

In the meantime I've decided that this all-singing, all-dancing little box of tricks is NOT going to get the better of me.   I'll find the right mix sooner or later.

Thanks everyone for the funny stories, and all the good advice and help.

Regards - Chessie

[Gluestick]

Personally, I would be most careful in using any "Bread Improver".

The main reason my wife and I started making all our bread, again (We always used to), was since I started suffering a sort of IBS: which turned out to be caused not by the flour or Gluten Intolerance, but the diabolical additives added to bread: and most biscuits etc.

There was an item a few weeks ago about this in the press: apparently most bakers use "Improvers" which are all animal: and yet veggies have been eating bread thinking they were OK!

The manufacturer's excuse is that the additives are negated by the process of baking.

Yeah right!

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?Most_bread_not_fit_for_vegetarians&in_article_id=636820&in_page_id=34

I had an acquaintance whose young son was diagnosed hyperactive and was wholly disruptive in school. This was caused by food additives.

Thinking healthy, his Mum made him filled brown baps once Spring came; bought from the old-established bakery next door to their business.

Within days the child was again climbing all over desks and tables and misbehaving.

Dad went into the bakers and questioned what the brown baps were made  from: baker tore the top off a flour sack and suggested he ask Rank Hovis.

The additive causing the problem was "An improver" which when the dough baked turned into one of the worst chemicals which cause hyperactivity!

And when I read things like this:

[quote]

L-cysteine - Improving agent

Produced commercially from animal and human hair (and feathers). When produced from animal hair it is almost certain that all L-cysteine is taken from slaughtered animals. When human hair is used it is often sourced from women in third-world countries. L-cysteine is used as an additive in around 5% of bread and other bakery products. It is not used in wholemeal bread or other wholemeal bakery products.[/quote]

The main reason bakers add stuff, is to short circuit proving and thus baking times: and additionally, to "Puff Up" the bread.

With the correct and absolutely simple process of mixing - kneading - proving - rising -  knocking back - shaping -  second proving: and then baking, no additives whatsoever should be necessary.

All provided, of course, one uses really good bread flour, decent yeast and a modicum of experience.

Some useful comments about method and baker's bread from an artisan baker in Cornwall.

Here.

[Frederick]

  Gluestick I am sure you are right all sorts of things find their way into our foods......however...as flour improver  used to improve bread  dough  are Amylases obtained I believe from the malting process I cannot  see how human hair or feathers  find their way into my bread .

.Amylases are produced during the germinatiion of cereal grains and key to the production of malt. . It appears used as a flour improver Amylases in the flour provide more fermentation sugars for the yeast and it rises quicker . All  flour used probably in every baguette we have bought is likely to contain this improver as I imagine 90% of bakers use machines to make their dough.and this results in a faster baking time .

 

My post was to assist those who  are bread making with machines that mix the dough as do local bakers and I shall continue to use the malt based improver as it does the job well  ..Others are free to choose if they want to use it ...bags of flour sold for bread makers already have it in .

 People  after reading your post will  probably have nightmares and Muslims and vegitarians will be turning out to picket the bakeries

 

[Clair]

[quote user="Frederick"]All  flour used probably in every baguette we have bought is likely to contain this improver as I imagine 90% of bakers use machines to make their dough.and this results in a faster baking time .[/quote]

Because of a decline in the quality of the bread in France some years ago, a decree was published to define and regulate what ingredients went into the making of traditional French bread.

In effect,

• any bread called "pain maison" must be kneaded, shaped and baked on the premises where they are sold to the consumer (or sold by the same baker in his van when he makes deliveries.)
• any bread called "pain de tradition française", "pain traditionnel français", "pain
  traditionnel de France" or any combination of such words must not be frozen and can only contain flour, salt, water and either bakers' yeast or leaven (levain).
• are also allowed as a % of flour: a max 2% of broad bean flour, 0.5% soja flour, 0.3% malted wheat flour.

Bread expert Raymond Calvel's book "Le goût du pain"  is available in English and well worth a read for anyone who is interested in bread making and baking.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Frederick"]  Gluestick I am sure you are right all sorts of things find their way into our foods......however...as flour improver  used to improve bread  dough  are Amylases obtained I believe from the malting process I cannot  see how human hair or feathers  find their way into my bread .
.Amylases are produced during the germinatiion of cereal grains and key to the production of malt. . It appears used as a flour improver Amylases in the flour provide more fermentation sugars for the yeast and it rises quicker . All  flour used probably in every baguette we have bought is likely to contain this improver as I imagine 90% of bakers use machines to make their dough.and this results in a faster baking time .
 
My post was to assist those who  are bread making with machines that mix the dough as do local bakers and I shall continue to use the malt based improver as it does the job well  ..Others are free to choose if they want to use it ...bags of flour sold for bread makers already have it in .
 People  after reading your post will  probably have nightmares and Muslims and vegitarians will be turning out to picket the bakeries
 
[/quote]

www.welhat.gov.uk/Internet/res/filestore/dnld_museumservice/bread_lore.pdf;internal&action=save.action -

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/food_and_drink/article2779292.ece

If you are happy: then I am happy!

You might, however, be interested to read this:

It is also interesting to Google "Amyleses".

Yes, 90% of bakers in France (once the home of good bread) use system machines; and pre-mixed dry constituent simply requiring the addition of water. And no developed skill.

Years ago we used to ship these "Instant Bakeries" to Africa. They may be seen in convenience stores up and down Britain. Just a somewhat larger version of the home bread machines.

Finding a half decent Artisan baker in France is now as difficult as elsewhere: as John Burton-Race complained bitterly in his book, "French leave". He did find one, in fact.

The only decent baker to us, still using a wood-fired oven and some distance away, retired, sadly.

As in all things, you pays your money and you takes your choice.

[:)]

[LEO]

"Show us your buns" has a better ring to it than ,"show us your loaves!

[Frederick]

   Oh dear what have I started  ? .... My bread maker works to produce a better loaf with improver  and  silly me for thinking others may find the same  information of use .

Perhaps in future I should keep such information to myself and thus not  instigate a chemical analysis of bread .making .. Time to pull the duvet over my head and wonder why I should bother to post .

[Gluestick]

I'm sure many will indeed find the information of use: however, as with all such information, if necessary, it often, these days, needs a caveat, in these additive infested days.

Bread made properly does not require "Improvers": it didn't for a couple of thousand years!

However as I did say, Frederick, if you're happy: then I'm happy!

[:)]

[Clair]

There is not one "right" way of making and baking bread. It is all a matter of personal choice and that choice may be guided by health principles, by convenience or by taste preference.

I have been making bread for years, both with a Panasonic BM and by hand.

Lately, I have relied on a non-traditional hand-method, described in an earlier thread, which fits perfectly in my routine. It is right for me but it may not be right for another person. It is simply a matter of personal convenience. For now [:)]

Similarly with the flour I choose to buy. It does contain "additives" in the form of wheat gluten which strengthens the dough and malt which enables its fermentation.

I could easily source organic flour, but at the moment, I don't need to as I am happy with what I buy. Again, a matter of personal convenience.

To the OP, I would just say do not be afraid to experiment and adjust, as every component you add to the flour plays a role in the final outcome.

Milk softens both crust and crumb .

Sugar or honey help feed the yeast and add a golden colour to the crust.

Salt counteracts yeast action and helps soften the crumb.

Fats in the form of butter or oil prevent the bread from drying out too quickly.

A sunken bread can be caused by the liquid not being cold enough. Lukewarm liquid starts interacting with the yeast and may cause it to get to work before the dough has had time to prove in the BM. Try using liquid at room temperature in your next attempt [:)]

[water rat]

The best machine is the cheapest from Lidl. Trust me , we have 5machines of varying age and prices and make bread every day. The worst and most unreliable is the most expensive Russell Hobbs ,already replaced once ,but now out of guarantee and beginning to play up.

[Gluestick]

Just from interest.

The latest baking, dough made early this morning: left to rise for an hour and then into the fridge to "rest", after knocking back and an extra knead.

Just basked this afternoon, between working!

Sourdough culture was grown on (using just organic white flour and water) from a natural beer yeast culture obtained from a keen brewer chum, the root of which comes from a local small real ale brewery and their championship IPA.

Hand made Rustic: free baked on oiled baking tray.

Organic Very Strong White Bread Flour; Water, Salt and Olive Oil.

Gave 'em a good spray with water once set to bring up the crust.

[IMG]http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq332/PercyPee/Sourdough/SourdoughCVBeer05-09004.jpg[/IMG]