Jean-Marie Le Pen

[Quillan]

I don't know if anyone has been following what has been happening within the FN and the 'falling out' between Father and Daughter.

If we leave the politics of the party to one side for a minute I feel rather sorry for the man. He created a racist, homophobic, anti EU and extreme right wing political party which he has passed to his daughter. She has tried, some may say successfully, to tone down the party and make it more 'acceptable' to voters and in doing so has attracted a lot of votes.

Her father who has some rather extreme ideas and some might say ideals as well is not very happy with what she has done with the party and claims that without his involvement the party will die. I don't think it will as sadly there are always right wing parties around, some worse than others.

The thing is his daughter has changed the party and in doing so taken it away from the core beliefs of her father who created the party. It must be quite upsetting for her father to see his party, that he created, being changed so much and move away from what it originally was. One the other hand I can see where she is coming from. She must feel that the party must become more acceptable to the public to get the votes. After the recent elections where they did indeed get more votes she may feel that to go forward with the party and take it deeper into mainstream politics she has to move it even further towards the centre right and sever all links with with its racist and homophobic past which is primarily her father.

The point is is she moving too far towards the centre right just to get votes because she can see that if she does she has a much better chance of getting more seats on regional councils, parliament and even a real chance at being President. By doing this is she not actually taking the party away from what it was and what it was setup to do by her father.

Well this family fight is certainly taking airtime on French TV and space in the French media. Not so sure it is such a good idea to air ones dirty family washing in public given that she has now said she wants him expelled from the party he created. Is this sour grapes about not actually getting seats? Is she really not her father's daughter in that her beliefs are not his? Does she find his recently repeated semitic remarks repugnant? Is she actually changing the party so it becomes more of the same compared to the mainstream parties? Is the FN losing sight of where it came from and what it was? Is what she doing (her fight with her father in public) good or bad for the party?

[vivienz]

Events within the FN are an extreme example of what makes me generally suspicious and wary of politicians.  A politician goes to the public with his/her set of values and beliefs and asks the public to vote for them on that basis.  If they discover that they aren't going to get enough votes to gain power, they then set about 'modernising' their party, i.e. changing those supposedly deeply held values and beliefs so that they will get enough votes to gain power.  So, how can the voters have any confidence that the values that they have voted for will be held to in the future when the the politician or party seem to change at will in order to get elected?  I can understand how a person's point of view can change, but not how they can do this within the same political party - surely, they should move to a different party if their values have changed so radically?

I am a bear of little brain when it comes to politics, but I'm confident that I shall always distrust politicians and those who would be politicians.

[Val_2]

Yes I read about this too and heard it on French TV,but I will never feel sorry for Monsieur as he is all that I hate. My own commune voted heavily for the FN a few weeks ago and this is a staunch socialist region but Hollande has ruined things locally with the agriculteurs in many cases but they still came out on top and in the second round, the FN completely disappeared from the whole of the region. It is all very fickle depending on the voter's grievances at the time but xenophobia is rife here in Bretagne, homeland of the LePenn family especially amongst the ignorant and older generations who have never left their own communes let alone travelled abroad or even met a person of another ethnicity - seems many are afraid of being overrun by "furriners"

[Quillan]

[quote user="vivienz"]Events within the FN are an extreme example of what makes me generally suspicious and wary of politicians.  A politician goes to the public with his/her set of values and beliefs and asks the public to vote for them on that basis.  If they discover that they aren't going to get enough votes to gain power, they then set about 'modernising' their party, i.e. changing those supposedly deeply held values and beliefs so that they will get enough votes to gain power.  So, how can the voters have any confidence that the values that they have voted for will be held to in the future when the the politician or party seem to change at will in order to get elected?  I can understand how a person's point of view can change, but not how they can do this within the same political party - surely, they should move to a different party if their values have changed so radically?

I am a bear of little brain when it comes to politics, but I'm confident that I shall always distrust politicians and those who would be politicians.
[/quote]

My personal thoughts are along the same lines as yours to be honest. I am no fan of the FN and likewise of any of the Le Pen's. I don't know if these recent events will tear the party apart or not. I rather suspect that their opponants rather hope it does and I note UMP already throwing some oil on the water.

[Chancer]

She is preparing the ground for the next generation of the Le Pen dynasty, one that appears to be even more moderate. Marion Maréchal Le Pen

 

Marion Maréchal Le Pen : Enceinte, elle attaque Minute

She is very intelligent, articulate, easy on the eye and ears and doesnt outwardly display the haine that the other two cannot hide.

I Wonder how soon before the grandfather gives a public declaration of support for her over her aunty?

I never could imagine Marine being a competent leader, after seeing Marion being interviewed by the British media I could see that she was very very different in terms of intelligence and communication skills.

Anyone else have a view on her?

[idun]

I do not feel sorry for J-M LP at all, let him get out of the limelight and no more to be heard of him. And if he is upset, then tant pis, he has upset enough people during his life time.

 Things move on and my feeling is that he is as bad as he ever was, probably worse and his latest nonsense about the holocaust made me have a tinge of respect for Marine (but only a tinge). At long last someone he had to listen to stood up to him.

[Gardengirl]

About a third of votes in our town were for the FN, which didn't surprise me that much, as FH brought great hopes when he was elected, unfulfilled of course. When I read his long list of wonderful things he was going to do when elected, I decided he would need a magic wand, Champion the Wonderhorse and Superman to help him - and then still wouldn't have managed to do it all.

I don't mind father and daughter having a falling out, I do mind airtime being given to him to air his disgusting views about the holocaust etc. He isn't the leader of the FN and should have the same amount of publicity as any other ordinary member of their party - none. But of course a dispute like theirs sells newspapers, attracts viewers.

[ebaynut]

Val 2 wrote. but xenophobia is rife here in Bretagne, homeland of the LePenn family especially amongst the ignorant and older generations who have never left their own communes let alone travelled abroad or even met a person of another ethnicity - seems many are afraid of being overrun by "furriners"

I had to smile when I read this bit. I guess the last time that this area had a large influx of foreigners or ‘outsiders’ was circa 1939-45. I doubt the visitors then did much to ender themselves to the local population, hence they are, in your view ‘ignorant’ because of a dislike of outsiders I am surprised that if that is your opinion of the people local to you that you moved there and stayed.. Remember they had no choice in you moving near them, you did. Its no wonder if they feel this way to people of another ethnicity or country, if as in your case, you move into their area, and call them, and here I very much quote your words ‘ignorant’. They were there first, what right have you to move into their area and judge them like this.

[Quillan]

Xenophobia in France normally refers to Africans or Arabs BUT it can also refer to immigrants that came over a century or more ago. For instance those living in Finisterre and Brittany, both are Gaelic speaking and some of whom think that the rest of France are immigrants if they move into those areas, bit like the Catalans down here. I think the allies did more physical damage to France than the Germans did and over a longer period.

[Pommier]

eybaynut, Val 2 didn't say that everyone in Bretagne is ignorant, but that the FN is popular amongst the ignorant and the older generations in her area.

[Jazzer]

This is the same Marine who compared muslims in France to the nazi occupation:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8197895/Marine-Le-Pen-Muslims-in-France-like-Nazi-occupation.html

and also a fervent supporter of Putin:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11515835/Russia-bought-Marine-Le-Pens-support-over-Crimea.html

[Chancer]

Those of you huffing and puffing about Jean-Marie or Marine have taken your eye off where the ball is really being played.

Has her niece Marion really not shown up on anyone elses radar?

[Gardengirl]

Marion Maréchal-Le Pen will be very much a force to be reckoned with; she's already made her presence known at a very young age, impressed friends at Carpentras, who weren't at all inclined towards the FN.

[Val_2]

ebaynut - xenophobia here in Bretagne is mostly directed at the Arabs and Africans here and I have Moroccan and Senegalese friends who have suffered much verbal abuse from locals whom they came to live amongst here in the sticks. White Europeans are more acceptable to their faces but behind the local façade there does exist anti feelings to all who migrate here. I came here 25years ago and it has got slowly worse but as the locals say,we are not now regarded as foreign incomers any longer.The FN vote was a shock in the commune to most but the alternatives were just not attractive enough and as you know, the French citizen prides him/herself on the right to vote and will do so. What happens to the FN in the future remains to be seen and what happens in government, something we can't do a lot about.

[WJT]

Call me sceptical but personally I believe this tiff between father and daughter is intentional and staged. It gives the appearance that Marine is not as radical as her father to help her win even more votes. I believe she is!

[Jazzer]

I think you may well be right.

[Val_2]

They say there is no such thing as bad publicity!

[ebaynut]

Quillan wrote,

I think the allies did more physical damage to France than the Germans did and over a longer period.

I expect you are right, that the allies did more physical damage to the area than the Germans , I would have thought what they inflicted on the population was more important than mere building being destroyed however.

Please note that I did state ‘outsiders’ and not Germans.

[ebaynut]

Pommier wrote,

eybaynut, Val 2 didn't say that everyone in Bretagne is ignorant, but that the FN is popular amongst the ignorant and the older generations in her area.

So everyone who does not agree with Val2’s view of the world is ignorant then?? or do some of the ignorant vote for Hollande ??

[ebaynut]

Jazzer wrote,

This is the same Marine who compared muslims in France to the *** occupation:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8197895/Marine-Le-Pen-Muslims-in-France-like-***-occupation.html

and also a fervent supporter of Putin:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11515835/Russia-bought-Marine-Le-Pens-support-over-Crimea.html

Sounds good to me, if only there was a political party in the UK with views like this.

[Quillan]

You could try Ukip, some of their members seem to think the same way as Le Pen.

[NickP]

[quote user="Quillan"]You could try Ukip, some of their members seem to think the same way as Le Pen.[/quote]

Some members of all political parties think that way, that is not a UKIP exclusive.

[idun]

ebaynut, you have made me smile.

[:)]I rather wonder how little you know of rural France and french people.

I understand val2 completely. Stating the obvious about the people where one lives is just how it is, honest comments. And I recognise her comments, and could easily say the same about where I used to live, wasn't as if we lived near one another,  Val2 used to live about a 9 hour drive from my old village. Also I have done both, lived in a french city and in rural France, there too is a difference in mentality.

[Quillan]

[quote user="NickP"][quote user="Quillan"]You could try Ukip, some of their members seem to think the same way as Le Pen.[/quote]

Some members of all political parties think that way, that is not a UKIP exclusive.
[/quote]

Judging by reports in the news over the last 12 to 18 months it would seem Ukip has more than the average.

[Quillan]

[quote user="idun"]ebaynut, you have made me smile.

[:)]I rather wonder how little you know of rural France and french people.

I understand val2 completely. Stating the obvious about the people where one lives is just how it is, honest comments. And I recognise her comments, and could easily say the same about where I used to live, wasn't as if we lived near one another,  Val2 used to live about a 9 hour drive from my old village. Also I have done both, lived in a french city and in rural France, there too is a difference in mentality.

[/quote]

As he has mentioned before he does not live here, does not own a property here, just pops over for the odd holiday.

Anyway it is not just France where you find this sort of attitude. Anywhere there is a lot of unemployment and immigrants there is always some friction. France on the other hand has a larger population of African and Arab immigrants because of its past. Easy to spot and target if you are looking for somebody to blame for something, indeed anything, rather than accept some of the blame yourself. Make no bones about it FN supporters don't have a problem with 'white' immigrants like myself only those of African and Arabic desent, in other words coloured. Mind you if they didn't exist I suspect they would pick on the Brits and Belgians down where I live.