Juncker and Hollande

[idun]

I think I can now say that I hate them both. There have been politicians that I have disliked intensely over the years, but currently they have my full unadulterated loathing!

Hollande saying, again, this week,  that the brexit had to be hard for the UK, to put other countries off leaving. What is that about. IF the EU is so wonderful, why would anyone want to leave? and IF it is not that naffing wonderful, then he should be trying to get it 'right'! instead of frightening people into staying. Maybe it is a good job that the man never married, imagine that attitude in a marriage!

Juncker, grrrr, Luxembourg's total population is similar to that of Sheffield, which is putting little Luxembourg into perspective as well as their leader. Incidentally, I have good friends from Sheffield and am not knocking Sheffield.

[alittlebitfrench]

Hollande as a politician is quite 'pro UK' I think but he just says what Merkel tells him to say. Given both will be out of a job next year it kinda makes what they say irrelevant anyway. They are desperately trying to save the EU and their jobs. That ain't going to happen.

People should be more interested it what Sarky and Marine LP are saying as I guess they will be in the last two next year.

Sarkey if elected wants to redesign the EU with the UK included. That is the best option for everyone. That would work.

Marine wants a Frexit which is very possible if she is elected. There are more people in France by all accounts wanting France out of the EU than there were in the UK referendum. Something that British expats don't want to acknowledge about their new home and the people they live with. But they all live in chocolate box villages and no nothing about France or French politics.

If Marine gets elected then she will be best pals with the UK and will be open to trade agreements and free movement of nationals between the two countries. Why would she not ?

The irony of it all is that all the silly expats living in France complaining of 'Brexit' and blaming their reduction of income because of the exchange rate (which is all that they are really bothered about) on right wing UK racists (which is obviously not the case but helps them come to terms with it by saying so) but would quite possibly be better off if MLP gets elected. LOL.

Funny old world innit.

[lindal1000]

Do you really think Psychozy will win the nomination for the right? He is not the favourite, being almost as personally unpopular as Hollande.

Surely it is the UK that is pushing for the 'hard brexit'. TM is saying she wants a complete break with the principles of the EU as they don't work for Britain and the EU is saying fair enough, if that's what you want you can have it? They are just saying there will be no special deal for the UK. Why would there be? They've said this all along, so it's not like they've changed their mind.

With regard to the fascist and xenophobic dialogue in the UK it is there...I am not sure it is all related to Brexit and the EU, although that has perhaps been a trigger. For example, EU trained Doctors make up a tiny percentage of NHS doctors as 65% of overseas trained doctors are from India. In nursing the majority of overseas staff are from the Philippines, so this is something previous governments could have easily managed had they had the will. The narrative coming from the current unelected government is very worrying and in that sense Brexit is the least of the UKs worries.

Perhaps people should be more worried about fiscal policy. No attempt to balance the books, help for savers (which can only mean interest rate rises, leading to further devaluation of the £) and a government that has stated it will no longer listen to and cooperate with the City or business leaders.

[alittlebitfrench]

lindlal Wrote "With regard to the fascist and xenophobic dialogue in the UK it is there"

True, but it is the same in France and Europe wide. France banned the Burka. Has the UK ? In fact Sarky wants to ban the head scarf. The UK has been more welcoming to oversea nationals than most other countries. Has France ?

France is not in the EU, never has been and never will be. Whereas the UK will always be pro European.

BUT, that is not your problem. It is widely accepted that in two years time (or maybe sooner) the markets will crash big style. Does not matter who gets elected in France, Germany or the USA. Brexit or Frexit or whatever. There is going to be a devastating market crash.

We are already planing for that. Life soon is going to change big style.

[lindal1000]

I agree 'acceptable racism' seems to be spreading all over the world like a nasty disease..and I also agree that the whole of Europe, in or out of the EU is bankrupt. The economy has been built on funny money for years..all countries living above their means and now no longer able to get out of it by ripping of the developing countries, because they are now developed themselves.

That's why it's so important that we challenge this dialogue of blaming it all on migrants, refugees, foreigners, the DU..because that will lead to something very ugly in deed and will not solve the problem because it is not the cause.

[powerdesal]

'' The narrative coming from the current unelected government is very worrying and in that sense Brexit is the least of the UKs worries. ''

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe the UK govt was elected, at the last general election.

[lindal1000]

What was elected was a relatively moderate Conservative government taking a centralist position on the economy and what we have now is an appointed prime minister leading a government that has shifted to centralist position in between UKIP and Ebola. (Not my words but I like them). How far is a government allowed to deviate from it's manifesto before it needs to put it to the vote again, because these policies go way further than the mandate given by the brexit vote. The interesting times will come when the government puts some of these proposals to parliament, as many conservative MPs are equally appalled by her stance.

[alittlebitfrench]

Lindal, it was your elected moderate Conservative government that created the refugee crisis in the first place by bombing Libya and getting rid of Gaddafi.

Before that you had moderate Blair and Bush who did the same in Iraq and Afganistan.

Now you have Russia who is taking full advantage of the situation by bombing the cr@p out of Syria knowing of course they will create even more waves of refugees heading to Europe which will add to the already destabilising effect it is having.

In the mix you have DEASH who seems to want everyone dead.

In terms of refugees and migrants, those queuing up in Calais to reach the UK is not a 'British' problem or a 'French' problem it is an 'EU' problem. What exactly have the EU done for these people over the last 20 years. Nothing. It could have been managed but it seems wonky bananas are more important.

People are voting against a completely useless establishment. It is the EU who have created this mess.

People are not racist they are worried because no one knows where this is going.

[lindal1000]

I agree with some of what you say..but I don't think you can put the entire refugee problem at the door of the EU. The EU in their role as an aggressor has been with the full endorsement and assistance of NATO. Where they can be criticised is for allowing the situation to drift, and not take a more united role in managing the situation. Leaving it to the last minute discretion of Hungarian soldiers was never going to end well. However the migrant/refugee crisis is not why Western economies are failing and why people don't have jobs, but they are an easy target.

I'm no fan of Cameroon either..but can't argue that he wasn't fairly elected, at least not until the results of the enquiry into the Conservative party campaign fraud is announced anyway!

If people want to vote against the establishment..which is perhaps not a bad thing..then we need to find an alternative anti establishment model that doesn't blame everything on one thing and doesn't create yet more division. There are several grass root movements currently growing that may be promising. At the moment they are just pressure groups .

The first test will be the Witney bi election, DCs old seat, which is expected to remain conservative, but the size of the majority and who ends up being the main opposition will perhaps give an indication of where things are going. Things are so unpredictable at the moment that I think anything could happen.

[alittlebitfrench]

I am not saying EU caused the migrant / refugee crisis I am saying they have not managed it and therefore are responsible.

Migrants were sneaking on lorries to the UK from France in the middle 1990's long before the Iraq war.

A proper reception centre should have been built years ago and funded by the EU where migrants / refugees were processed. Where women and children could be kept safe and people with phycological disorders could be assessed. Anyone not meeting the criteria to stay just gets sent back. The problem was never going to go away on its own and that is even before pointless military intervention in the Middle East and North Africa that creates a larger exodus of people. What do think going to happen when global warming really sets in !!!!!

What could be more easier than that. But no, the EU as a collective body of over educated idiots has failed Europe. There own inaction has fuelled racism and tensions. Look what is happening in Germany. Who would have thought of Germany becoming right wing again. That is the fault of the EU not individual Germans.

So yes, the EU is responsible for the crisis.

[idun]

Lest it be forgotten, that many of these so called refugees are not, but economic migrants.

I am sick of wars  and any of our involvment, being blamed for everything. And we still hear of  colonialism being mentioned, which like prostitution is as old as the world, we did not invent it. We did it like s many other tribes have done in the past, and others will do in the future, just human nature. 

Personally, I blame modern medicine, religions and Bob Geldof for  most of the current world's problems. The biggest problem for this planet is over population.

Doctors happily made sure that babies were born and lived in the 3rd world, even though many in the third world still do not thrive, literally millions and millions and millions more do. Not a thought for how they will make a living, get educated or water or food, that in any order. The religions encourage populations mulitplying. And Geldof, well, just look at the population of Ethiopia/Eritrea now, saving a population 30 years ago should have included education and IF you cannot care for your own, do not have babies!!!! And that is back to the various religions too.

Juppe or Sarko? I have no idea. And Marine is the joker in the pack.

Imagine......... by next year we could have Trump in the US, Le Pen in France and we have Mrs May!  OR Clinton, Juppe and still Mrs May, because I have no doubt that if she called a general election now, she would win.

Hollande, should keep his yapper shut. Juncker, would that he were gone and someone with some decency and common sense in the job....... as if that were a qualification for that particular job.....pigs will fly when such qualifications are!

[Chancer]

My money is on a 3 card trick, Trump, Le Pen and Blair [:P]

[NormanH]

I find neither Juncker nor Hollande attractive personalities, and anything Hollande says doesn't much matter as he won't be there in 6 months, but I fail to see how either of them can be blamed for articulating the EU position.

It wasn't the EU that voted for Brexit, and there is nothing new in its position.

Leave a club and you no longer have a say, but don't blame those who stay for reminding you of the rules.

[Chancer]

And to add to that.

 

I feel that I left the club of the UK 11 years ago and have never thought once since then that I deserved to have a say in the running of my old country despite maintaining a residence and business interests there, I consider my self to be an immigrant and not an ex-pat.

 

I do notice that many of those who for a long time have railed against the use of the word ex-pat some having been in France for 25 years are now saying that the UK should look after the interests of its ex-pats [8-)] and that the term is now in almost universal use.

 

Funny that!

[lindal1000]

Idun, are you seriously suggesting that only people living in the privileged West should be allowed the luxury of seeing their children live to adulthood?

Anyway I doubt Bob Geldof did much to change the course of the world. Developing countries decided by themselves that they didn't want to be dependent on charity and are now keeping their natural resources to themselves or charging a good price for them. Look at the example of India..one of the fastest growing economies in the world..and most of South East Asia. Providing they don't get involved in any costly wars they stand to outstrip Europe pretty soon.

Parts of Africa will not be far behind and that can only be a good thing. Of course the downside is that Europe will get less wealthy.

I don't feel guilty about overpopulating the world having not contributed to population growth myself.

[alittlebitfrench]

This is an interesting article.

https://www.thelocal.fr/20161007/how-the-sinking-pound-affects-british-pensioners-in-france

I find it worrying that expats (or should I say pensioners) move to France with such a low income. They are right on the limit even before exchange rate fluctuations.

They also don't seem to appreciate there are many many French people who are equally living with the same (or perhaps) lower incomes. So after gambling there life away on an exchange rate these expat/immigrant retirees can't have dinner parties now.

Mis-sold French dream or they completely stupid ? Life is expensive in France. Did they not realise that before moving ?

[NormanH]

[quote user="Chancer"]

And to add to that.

 

I feel that I left the club of the UK 11 years ago and have never thought once since then that I deserved to have a say in the running of my old country despite maintaining a residence and business interests there, I consider my self to be an immigrant and not an ex-pat.

 

I do notice that many of those who for a long time have railed against the use of the word ex-pat some having been in France for 25 years are now saying that the UK should look after the interests of its ex-pats [8-)] and that the term is now in almost universal use.

 

Funny that!

[/quote]

I don't think that many have railed against that ridiculous  term, unlike you and me, so I'm not surprised to see it being used.

 As far as your comment "I feel that I left the club of the UK 11 years ago and have never

thought once since then that I deserved to have a say in the running of

my old country "

I feel that a better  parallel would be to have joined a second  club,  yet  the first one continues to take my membership fee while withholding the benefits of membership.

[Chancer]

Completely off topic but to do with joining another club.

 

I have often written of the narrow minded méchante mentalité around here, I decided to join another running club, my current one were lacking in many ways especially in terms of communication (typical around here) I realised that they would never change so I found a much better competition oriented club a 15 minute drive away, it actually saves me time because when they meet at 19.00 they arrive before or on time to get the bises out of the way and we always set off within 5 minutes, the old club I would be freezing and jumping on the spot for up to 30 minutes while the late arrivals did the kissy kissy and averyone else was "euuhhing" constantly. - I digress.

 

I had made several if not friends (because that dont happen here) then acquaintances, naively I decided to continue my membership with them (solidarité) but have my competition license with and train with the new club but maintain friendships by doing a footing collectif with the old club, no different to what I did in motor racing in the UK, I had a comp license attached to one club but retained membership with several previous clubs and most importantly real friendships lasting décades, it was a very silly and naive mistake to do the same thing here where I have said that people behave like if you are not my friend then you are my enemy and I dont have any friends.

 

I discussed it with the president, supposedly one of the more educated ones, he certainly travels to other EU countries on business and he seemed really put out, I explained why and why I wanted to remain in the club but it fell on deaf ears, I resubscribed on 1st September ticking only the membership box and not the competition or loisir license and paid my subs, the cheque was cashed, unbeknown to me they renewed my competition license in their name to make it difficult for the new club (their words).

 

Then they retrospectively introduced a new regulation that any one holding a license with another club could no longer train with them and (their words) would not be welcome, the first I knew of it was a couple of decent people resigning in protest, they informed me by e-mail 30 minutes before a footing collectif which was in a public place not the stade, of course I went just to Wind them up!

 

The president told me that I was no longer welcome but as a special favour could run with them (on publis roads) that one time and that they would be cancelling my membership and refunding me, after the run I took him to one side to advise him to reflect on his actions, that it was blatant discrimination, that we had a contract between us affirmed by my signature and them cashing the cheque and that they could not deliberately introduce a discriminatory rule afterwards and cancel my membership without being liable for damages, for my loss of jouissance, I showed him the card that I always carry in my wallet from La Halde and his insouciance ended. I also added that until such time as I signed the demand de mutation I was not licensed to another club.

 

As we speak I am still a member of a club that does not want me, that has lost other members in protest, I still run with them even though I no longer want to just to Wind them up, nobody speaks to me but then that is not really any change. I am currently in limbo running as a non licensé.

 

The new club on the other hand is everything that I could have wished for especially all the members, and I do mean all, they are really ouverte and friendly, what a diference 20kms makes! My ex lived in that town and I always found it very pleasant.

[alittlebitfrench]

Expat or Immigrant...without boring me to death what is the difference between the two ?

BTW, I am a European.

[NormanH]

Have you ever met an Indian or Polish Ex-pat in the UK?

To me an ex-pat has been ex-patriated (by a company or the government for example) to work away from the home country for a while.

An immigrant has chosen to move to the country and settle there.

However 'ex-pat' has a certain snobbish appeal giving the impression of a Colonial life-style, while 'immigrant' suffers from a different image[:-))]

[alittlebitfrench]

In my case I was ex-patriated by a company but no longer working for said company. I did not blo@dy choose to live here. LOL.

What am I now ?

[NormanH]

Chancer it sounds as if France is a country with two  bleds inhabited by trouducs.

You chose one and I got lucky with the other [6]

[NormanH]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]In my case I was ex-patriated by a company but no longer working for said company. I did not blo@dy choose to live here. LOL.

What am I now ?[/quote]

Abandoned?

[Chancer]

Norman, that is my interpretation also.

 

I had to look up bléd, thanks for that, trouduc was evident.

 

I didn't choose my bléd it chose me so the thouducs got lucky [:P]

 

ALBF you are up **** creek without a paddle! What is that quiz show where the host says "you leave with nothing!"?

[alittlebitfrench]

This might be a good time to correct your spelling..

'trou-du-cul' !