Tresco Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 [quote user="chief"]. Not a position i advocate to others, my own personal choice for which i am happy to accept the good bad or ugly repercussions if any.[/quote]Except the ugliest repercussions, which I accept may have nothing to do with your clearly advanced level of driving skill, but more (in your view, perhaps) to do with other, less skilfull drivers who happen to be driving 'too slow' (or within the speed limit, even).The worst repercussions are of course death or serious disability, but then you wouldn't be in a postition to say 'I accept it' because you'd be dead, or seriously disabled. Unless of course you were thinking of happily accepting either of those fates on the part of someone who had been subjected to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 As I put in my earlier post ,my gripe is not speed limits but the use of variable speed limits on the motorways when the motorway is completely clear .As I said, these are clearly to make money and are dangerous. It annoys me that you are then branded a criminal for speeding when there was no need for the lower limit. With regards the word criminal, technically yes you are,but if in a room of people you were told that one person in that room was a criminal, what would you mind conjure up. Not a speeding motorist I suspect. And before you get holier than thou I have lost someone close through speeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcazar Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 [quote user="KatieKopyKat"]I must admit this is getting really upsetting now Alcazar. Do you realise this forum may be read by people who have lost children to speeding motorists. It is a serious issue and I really think you should be showing more respect other than shouting your mouth off in a one upmanship drama. Please give it a rest now.[/quote]I WILL give it a trest KKK, when it can be shown that "Speeding" is the cause of the accidents. So far, I have seen no evidence, just rhetoric. FAR too many accidents are attributed by the press, and the media, to "speeding motorists", when there is NO evidence to show that speed was even a contributary factor. The DfT even had to change it's website because of misleading information about speed related accidents.To give you an example: on UK Breakfast TV, about six months ago, they were discussing the lenient sentence given to an illegal immigrant who killed a small boy, while driving under the influence of alcohol, without a license and with neither tax, nor insurance. One of those being interviewed, someone from Transport 2000, I believe, said, "And he was probably speeding too.". She was allowed to get away with it. Speeding had NOT been mentioned by the prosecution, nor by the investigating officer. It's a matter of public record, but there you are, he was "Probably speeding". Makes him a pariah, you see?Should we NOT discuss whether older people should be allowed to drive, because someone whose family were killed by one, might be upset by me defending their right so to do?What about motorcyclists? They make up 4% of the road users, but are involved in 30% of the fatalities, many of which are single vehicle, lost control, accidents. Should we not discuss their right to be on the road? To drive bikes that can do 160+mph? To have no front numberplate, and therefore be invisible to large numbers of scameras?And what of immigrants? Those people who come to either the UK, or France, and break the motoring laws, either on purpose, or inadvertently? Should we not discuss them?I'm sorry KKK, but what I'm against is the invidious use of rhetoric, and half truths to further governments' attempt to extort money from motorists.The mantra "speed kills", gets right up my nose. "Speed" just happens to be the ONLY thing that a fixed/mobile scamera can easily measure. The rest of the motoring offences are now going virtually un-noticed.Alcazar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-cat Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I can understand young, newly qualified drivers, speeding - I don't like or agree with it , but they don't have the knowledge to know any better. But an experienced driver to boost about speeding is just irresponsible & dangerous. It's breaking the law & endangering other road users. As does driving on drink & drugs (prescription or otherwise) - which are both being clamped down on, very hard at the moment. People talking about Speed Kills, may get "up your nose" Alcazar, but the facts of the matter are that people who speed, regardless of how good a driver they think they are, cause deaths on the roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcazar Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 [quote]I can understand young, newly qualified drivers, speeding - I don't like or agree with it , but they don't have the knowledge to know any better. But an experienced driver to boast about speeding is just irresponsible & dangerous.[/quote] Why? Who's boasting? I NEVER once in any post mentioned that I speed, nor have I incited others so to do. " [quote] It's breaking the law & endangering other road users. As does driving on drink & drugs (prescription or otherwise) - which are both being clamped down on, very hard at the moment. People talking about Speed Kills, may get "up your nose" Alcazar, but the facts of the matter are that people who speed, regardless of how good a driver they think they are, cause deaths on the roads. [/quote]The "facts of the matter" are that a VERY small percentage of accidents on the roads have speed as a contributary factor, let alone "causing death on the roads". But the authorities' incessant drone about "speed kills" is slowlty but surely withdrawing resources from any other type of policing on our roads, so that ONLY speeding is/will be punished. Yes, even drink and drugs. No wonder they'd have us believe that speed, (and by inference, only speed), kills.Stop believing government hype. Next, you'll be telling me Tony had evidence that Iraq were going to bomb us with "nucular " devices "within 45 minutes"[:D]Alcazar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Speeding rarely kills - tends to be stopping too quickly.IMHO those who drive very powerful cars consider their own driving abilities to be far superior to the rest of us. Unable to accept the fact that speeding is likely to incur fines they whinge on about the govt's revenue raising schemes and alleged unfairness.BTW will all of you pls stop talking about "losing" when you really mean "killed by".Johnnot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Perhaps this thread ought to have been entitled "Drivers out to lighten their wallets - Gendarmes happy to oblige". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MargaretD Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Just read the last few comments. I was on my way to work, nearly got caught speeding (I was doing 50kph in the village), but the gendarmes stopped me anyway, Did I know what speed I was doing, replied I thought I was doing about 50, could they see my carte grise, yes,... Could they see my drving licence, yes... could they see my first aid kit... fire extinguisher... trinagle... spare bulbs... yes had the lot. But wait, they asked me for my reflective jacket - well that caught me out. Didn't realise I had to have one. Well, they explained it is advisory and could I please take a new one with me with the ticket to the local gendarmerie within 7 days. So it was the local shop who got my money - not the gendarmes!But then they are all getting married at the moment in our area, wedding presents, setting up houses etc, it is quite costly... ( three married in the last four weeks!, but at least all the local ones are now married, perhaps no more road checks for a while!)M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-cat Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 [quote user="Alcazar"][quote]I can understand young, newly qualified drivers, speeding - I don't like or agree with it , but they don't have the knowledge to know any better. But an experienced driver to boast about speeding is just irresponsible & dangerous.[/quote] Why? Who's boasting? I NEVER once in any post mentioned that I speed, nor have I incited others so to do. " [quote] It's breaking the law & endangering other road users. As does driving on drink & drugs (prescription or otherwise) - which are both being clamped down on, very hard at the moment. People talking about Speed Kills, may get "up your nose" Alcazar, but the facts of the matter are that people who speed, regardless of how good a driver they think they are, cause deaths on the roads. [/quote]The "facts of the matter" are that a VERY small percentage of accidents on the roads have speed as a contributary factor, let alone "causing death on the roads". But the authorities' incessant drone about "speed kills" is slowlty but surely withdrawing resources from any other type of policing on our roads, so that ONLY speeding is/will be punished. Yes, even drink and drugs. No wonder they'd have us believe that speed, (and by inference, only speed), kills.Stop believing government hype. Next, you'll be telling me Tony had evidence that Iraq were going to bomb us with "nucular " devices "within 45 minutes"[:D]Alcazar[/quote]Apoligies, Alcazar if you thought I was referring to you, at the start of my post - as I wasn't (I think it was Chief, said they had no reservation about speeding, everyday). It's why I didn't mention your name, until later in the post, when I was replying to you.I don't think it's all government hype. A lot of people say that speed is only be responsible for a small percentage of deaths - but how many people is that? 1, 2, 10, 100? How many deaths do these folks think are acceptable, before it becomes a high enough percentage?As for taking money away from drink & drug testing - Bollocks (can I say that?). Breath tests are increasing all over Northern Ireland (I won't say in the UK, as I haven't heard their figures) & more & more accidents are being caused everyday, because of drunk/stoned or speeding, young or more "mature (& I use the term, very lightly) reckless drivers. Maybe it's cars becomming to powerful for drivers to handle - or the increase of traffic on our roads - but the number of familes left grieving is unacceptable. If one person is killed by the actions of a speeding driver - it's one too many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 [quote user="MargaretD"]But wait, they asked me for my reflective jacket - well that caught me out. Didn't realise I had to have one. Well, they explained it is advisory and could I please take a new one with me with the ticket to the local gendarmerie within 7 days. [/quote]If its advisory, how do the require you to have one. Mandatory, yes but what would have happened if you went to the police station and had no yellow reflective jacket ? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 [quote user="MargaretD"]Just read the last few comments. I was on my way to work, nearly got caught speeding (I was doing 50kph in the village), but the gendarmes stopped me anyway, Did I know what speed I was doing, replied I thought I was doing about 50, could they see my carte grise, yes,... Could they see my drving licence, yes... could they see my first aid kit... fire extinguisher... trinagle... spare bulbs... yes had the lot. [/quote]Gendarmes out to increase their coffers - sure are. I got "DONE" last week for 90€! Extortionate. Still, I suppose it's my own silly fault for not following Saligo's advice on here several months back about stopping at a STOP sign and counting to at least 5 before pulling off. The exit to our local Champion is on a very long, straight, sloping stretch of road and it is easy to see any traffic very clearly, in BOTH directions. Everyone always does the same thing of checking the road before they have even approached the junction and carrying on their merry way, which is what I did last Wednesday.... when in Rome, blah, blah, blah. But sneaky little Flic (clearly with X-ray and certainly 20/20 vision) was hiding on the roundabout about 300m down the road and jumped out in front of me. Madame, did you not see the Stop sign?...... Err yes, (thought I might get done for driving blind if I denied) ..... So why didn't you stop?...... Well because I had clear visiion in both directions and there were no vehicles in sight...... come to my car with me madame, would you like to pay now or later?Absolutely no chance of a caution, just slammed me with a 90€ fine to be paid within 3 days. I suppose after Mary's tale I should be grateful he didn't do me for not having a yellow jacket either!!!!!I know that technically, yes I was in the wrong, but both he and I knew that I was the only car on the roads in Manche at that moment in time, and I would have thought a severe caution would have been a better way of dealing with it. Especially when I discovered the fine was NINETY DAMNED EUROS!My husband got caught for speeding about a year ago and that was only 65 euros, reduced to 45 if we paid within 14 days - much more reasonable under the circumstances I would have thought [:@] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcazar Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 [quote user="Deimos"][quote user="MargaretD"] But wait, they asked me for my reflective jacket - well that caught me out. Didn't realise I had to have one. Well, they explained it is advisory and could I please take a new one with me with the ticket to the local gendarmerie within 7 days. [/quote]If its advisory, how do the require you to have one. Mandatory, yes but what would have happened if you went to the police station and had no yellow reflective jacket ? Ian [/quote]If I know the French Gendarmes, probably sold you one at an extortionate price[;-)]Alcazar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris pp Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Perhaps someone, Sunday Driver? knows the answer to this, but it would seem that a "caution" from a Gendarme doesn't exist in France, I don't think it's within their remit.Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 [quote user="MargaretD"]But then they are all getting married at the moment in our area...[/quote]That's good to know, at least those particular gendarmes won't be taking after their parents. [:D]Secriously though, does it go to the gendarmerie? I thought fines went to the tresor public, i.e. the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalpa Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 MargaretD - I, too, am confused. So your fine is for not having a reflective jacket...? You weren't speeding so it's just because you didn't have a jacket? We do have them - they were on promo in Bricodepot or somewhere equally irrelevant - but I didn't think they were mandatory till the end of this year so I'm curious to know if not having one was why you were fined?St Amour - 90€ is cheap. At a Champion near us, there's a similar STOP nearby. A friend of mine was nicked there a couple of years ago. Absolutely no other offence than failure to stop. Court appearance followed about 2 months later along with a fine of several hundred euros and... AND... a 3 week ban. Do you feel better now??[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassis Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 [quote user="Andrewjspencer"]TeamedupI agree some speeds can make you rather too relaxed but maybe thats the problem with the modern day car? They are often more comfortable places to be than your own lounge - lumbar support seats, climate control, CD autochanger, cool box in reach......I can remember being much more wide awake doing 60mph in my 1971 Ford Escort than in my ohh so comfy Scenic!![/quote]Sorry - only just caught this thread. I have a solution. What about we do away with safety belts and airbags and stick a spike in the middle of the steering wheel? Should focus the attention! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Somebody I used to know always maintained there would be fewer accidents if people (though he actually said lorry drivers) all drove in a thin glass egg suspended just above the road at the front of the vehicle. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcazar Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 [quote user="Deimos"]Somebody I used to know always maintained there would be fewer accidents if people (though he actually said lorry drivers) all drove in a thin glass egg suspended just above the road at the front of the vehicle. Ian[/quote]Seems to work for train drivers[;-)]Alcazar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Riff-Raff Element Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 ...and of course, in a surprisingly few years having the "Old Bill"lurking around the on the verges or even camaras will be obselete sincethe GPS that will be fitted to every motor vehicle (probably bycompulsion as part of the "global struggle against terrorism") will beable to be turn in the speeding driver all by itself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Some questions raised during this debate:Reflective jackets are purely advisory at the moment so there is no offence of not carrying one. If there's no offence, then they can't fine you for it.As far as I'm aware, there are no cautions for breaches of the code de la route. It's a ticket or nothing.The government is considering amending their speed enforcement criteria to allow a little leeway for "minor" excesses but only where there are no aggravating factors. So 94 in a country 90 might no longer trigger a radar, but clearly 51 in a 50 will still remain an offence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassis Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Is it definite that reflective jackets are becoming compulsory at the end of the year, as posted here?I think they allow 5% on radars up to 100kmph then it's 5kmph flat rate allowance. So if they clock you at 108 they call it 103. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 [quote user="Cassis"]Is it definite that reflective jackets are becoming compulsory at the end of the year, as posted here?[/quote]Not heard anything to suggest this is so. However, given that they're now compulsory in other EU states, it won't be long before there is a change of law in France (and everywhere else for that matter).[quote user="Cassis"]I think they allow 5% on radars up to 100kmph then it's 5kmph flat rate allowance. So if they clock you at 108 they call it 103.[/quote]Exceeding the 70/90/110/130 speed limits by up to 20kph is a class 3 offence. So if they take the 108, then it's a 68 euros penalty (reduced to 45 euros for prompt payment) plus one point. If they take the 103, it's the same penalty. Each subsequent 10kph attracts a greater fine and an extra point. Exceeding the 30/50 limit is considered to be more serious, so the fines are doubled.So, if you find it difficult to drive your car within the legal speed limit and you exceed that limit by a small amount, then you are subject to a small fine/points. If you want to go faster, then there is a greater price to pay. Sounds eminently fair to me.Finally, non respect du stop is a class 4 offence - 135/90 euros plus four points plus a potential three year driving ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevinmc Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Where's the issue in all of this.30 years ago, as a spotty yuff, I was offered a contract.Here's a rule book.Prove that you've read it - a test.Prove that you know the basics - a test.You stick to the rule book and we'll give you a piece of paper that let's you use the road.Get it wrong and we'll penalise you.It's so simple - any who tells me they know better is a fool.You can be Michael Schumaker, but if your tyre blows at 140 mph -you're probably dead, so's granny, so are the kids - all theskill in the world won't save you.Don't kid yourself that you know best - you don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 [quote user="catalpa"]St Amour - 90€ is cheap. At a Champion near us, there's a similar STOP nearby. A friend of mine was nicked there a couple of years ago. Absolutely no other offence than failure to stop. Court appearance followed about 2 months later along with a fine of several hundred euros and... AND... a 3 week ban. Do you feel better now??[:D][/quote]I feel MUCH better now thanks Carole. [:D][:D][:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcazar Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 [quote user="Sunday Driver"][Finally, non respect du stop is a class 4 offence - 135/90 euros plus four points plus a potential three year driving ban.[/quote]How do they decide whether to fine you €135 or €90?Someone tell me it's not "pour les etrangers", and "pour les riverains"[8-)]Alcazar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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