Hereford Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 We know that given a Siret number it is possible to check the registration, but can you do the reverse - i.e. look up a name and see if the business is registered?We asked a roofer to do an emergency roof repair for a non-resident neighbour - we found the roofer from his card stuck up at a big local DIY store. Given where we found the name it did not occur to us that he might not be registered. However we now have the bill for the work and no siret number appears. We would like some work done on our own roof and had hoped to use him as he was most efficient. However we are not prepared to use un-registered labour. At this point we are unwilling to tackle him and ask - we may needlessly upset him! Can we check ourselves? His bill shows both a UK and a French address, and his vehicles are still UK registered but we do know that he lives in France as he told us he has a child at school here.Are we naive in thinking that no-one would be so stupid as to advertise in a big DIY store if they were not legal!!?H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maricopa Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Hi HerefordTake at look at this websitehttp://www.cofacerating.fr/portail/recherche_entreprise_inter/recherche_entreprise.asp?IP=ECHOSenter all the relevant details you can and press the search button. If registered, should come up with not only that he is registered, but what as as well. Can be very revealing[;-)]! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinabee Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 The Greffe provide a search facility in English, you can also see if companies have deregistered, i.e. are still using an old Siret number, as well as what they are registered for (hold the mouse over the NAF code), and you can search by name and department.http://www.infogreffe.fr/infogreffe/jsp/recherche/rechRegCom.jsp?recherche=newAs Maricopa said, the results can be very revealing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereford Posted February 24, 2008 Author Share Posted February 24, 2008 Thanks for these two replies. The first one we found difficult to follow - it wanted just one piece of info not several bits and it did not recognise the name. It only came up with two roofers in the whole of our department when searching for a "couvreur". The second one has no business with the name we have (nor the "English" trading name!)Do these two sites purport to cover every registered business? It looks as if we shall have to tackle the young man! Thanks againH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maricopa Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 HerefordIf nothing was returned for his name, then he isn't registered. To proof this point, try it with a business you know that is registered, and try all the different permutations. And of course you are quite right, you only put in one piece of info at a time ie SIRET no, name or whatever. Having said that, I find it quite easy to use, but I have been using it for a while. The only down side is that if you don't know the SIRET No, it doesn't tell you what it is even if they are registered[:(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinabee Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 On the infogreffe you could try a search by executive officer in case the business is registered under a different trading name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 None of the sites are particularly reliable or quick to be updated - in several years of trading my SIRET was never recognised, maybe because I was a profession liberale, rather than artisan or commercant, but that fact did give some clever dicks the wrong idea. I have always found www.infobilan.com to be the easiest to use. The free sites only usually list the principal activity (as in the NAF code) and many businesses are registered and legal for a range of activities.Some sites have more detailed databases for which you pay a small fee, you then get all the information, including when accounts were last filed and stuff like that, which really can tell you a lot about a business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinabee Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 As far as I am aware the Infogreffe site is the official website of the Greffe du Tribunal de Commerce. You can order the full paperwork for all registered companies on here for a fee. However, I am not certain that they cover all professions liberale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maricopa Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Of course, we can only ever go on our own experience. All I know is that my own business appeared on the site I use within days of receiving my extract K. Interestingly, my business didn't come up on the site Will uses[:(], go figure[8-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereford Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 Thanks to all of you. This roofer does not appear on any list on the sites mentioned. We will tackle him. What a silly man.H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 [quote user="Hereford"]Thanks to all of you. This roofer does not appear on any list on the sites mentioned. We will tackle him. What a silly man.H.[/quote]That is rather an assumption at this stage and also unfair to pre-judge someone on a public forum without having had the courtesy to have asked them one simple question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 [quote user="Maricopa"]Of course, we can only ever go on our own experience. All I know is that my own business appeared on the site I use within days of receiving my extract K. Interestingly, my business didn't come up on the site Will uses[:(], go figure[8-)][/quote]I eventually come up on the site you list Maricopa and I am profession liberale, oddly the address is out of date in spite of other agencies now using my new address and my telephone number is wrong, completely, it's not even my old number, my first name is spelt incorrectly so not finding someone you can not assume they are not registered, how many mistakes can one site make??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinabee Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 [quote user="Panda"][quote user="Maricopa"]Of course, we can only ever go on our own experience. All I know is that my own business appeared on the site I use within days of receiving my extract K. Interestingly, my business didn't come up on the site Will uses[:(], go figure[8-)][/quote]I eventually come up on the site you list Maricopa and I am profession liberale, oddly the address is out of date in spite of other agencies now using my new address and my telephone number is wrong, completely, it's not even my old number, my first name is spelt incorrectly so not finding someone you can not assume they are not registered, how many mistakes can one site make??? [/quote]PandaAre your details available and correct on the Infogreffe site? It would be useful to know if they are comprehensive and cover professions liberale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjlaws Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 [quote user="Hereford"]Thanks to all of you. This roofer does not appear on any list on the sites mentioned. We will tackle him. What a silly man.H.[/quote]Hang on just a second. It's very difficult to prove a negative.I've had a look at the various links posted here and not one of them is reliable. I've used the correct information about my builder, roofer and gardener, all of whom are well-established, registered, legal businesses. The only one I've found by using the links provided is the roofer, and I can only find him using his name, not his profession as stated on the site which he appears on.The best way to find out whether the person in question is properly registered is to ask him. It's possible that he's not registered, but the authorities are known to inspect the notice boards in stores such as the one you mention in your original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maricopa Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I would still say there is a use for these sites. Afterall, if you find the person you want on them, registered for the work you want them to do, then that has to be a positive start. If you don't then you can then ask the reasonable question of their registration.My business details did also come up correct on the infogreffe site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val_2 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 [quote user="Hereford"]We know that given a Siret number it is possible to check the registration, but can you do the reverse - i.e. look up a name and see if the business is registered?We asked a roofer to do an emergency roof repair for a non-resident neighbour - we found the roofer from his card stuck up at a big local DIY store. Given where we found the name it did not occur to us that he might not be registered. However we now have the bill for the work and no siret number appears. We would like some work done on our own roof and had hoped to use him as he was most efficient. However we are not prepared to use un-registered labour. At this point we are unwilling to tackle him and ask - we may needlessly upset him! Can we check ourselves? His bill shows both a UK and a French address, and his vehicles are still UK registered but we do know that he lives in France as he told us he has a child at school here.Are we naive in thinking that no-one would be so stupid as to advertise in a big DIY store if they were not legal!!?H.[/quote] Did you not also ask to see his Assurance Deçennale and Civile policy? Without this he is working illegally here and YOU will have not have any recourse whatsoever in case of any problems during the next ten years. A Siret number should be printed on all business paperwork especially invoices and if it is missing this is very suspicious indeed. Just look at any properly registered french artisan and all their registration and TVA(where appropriate) info appears on both their devis and factures. You should not worry about upsetting HIM,he probably has chalked this job us as noir and you would be treated just the same. Anyone can turn on the charm whenthey want a job but when things get problamatic he will show his true colours mark you me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereford Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 We were trying not to pre-judge but his invoice does not show a siret number. We asked him to do a small emergency repair, and no we did not ask to see his insurance etc, (do people really do this) but assumed all was well as he advertises in the local builders merchants. We made the cheque out to his trading name when we paid.In any case we have not named him here and as we do not show where we are in France it would be difficult for anyone to identify him.We intend now to ask him whether or not he is regeistered. We had just thought (and that is why we posted this query) that we could find out independently, having had him do a small job without asking. The job was not for us but a neigbour who is non-resident. We are upset that we may (and I stress may) have used an unregistered person.H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastet Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Just out of interest, I've just checked www.infobilan.com for my OH and was alarmed that he appeared not to be on there, ie, not registered. A reverse check however, looking up his metier in our postcode, revealed that his surname is spelt incorrectly.I guess a call or e-mail tomorrow to the Chambre de Metier is on order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinabee Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 [quote user="Hereford"]We were trying not to pre-judge but his invoice does not show a siret number. We asked him to do a small emergency repair, and no we did not ask to see his insurance etc, (do people really do this) but assumed all was well as he advertises in the local builders merchants. We made the cheque out to his trading name when we paid.In any case we have not named him here and as we do not show where we are in France it would be difficult for anyone to identify him.We intend now to ask him whether or not he is regeistered. We had just thought (and that is why we posted this query) that we could find out independently, having had him do a small job without asking. The job was not for us but a neigbour who is non-resident. We are upset that we may (and I stress may) have used an unregistered person.H.[/quote]Hi Hereford,Yes people do ask to see insurance, and a good artisan will often offer to show it to you without asking, before preparing a devis.Don't feel bad about asking. TB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenniswitch Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 [quote user="Will"]None of the sites are particularly reliable or quick to be updated - in several years of trading my SIRET was never recognised, maybe because I was a profession liberale, rather than artisan or commercant, but that fact did give some clever dicks the wrong idea. I have always found www.infobilan.com to be the easiest to use. The free sites only usually list the principal activity (as in the NAF code) and many businesses are registered and legal for a range of activities.Some sites have more detailed databases for which you pay a small fee, you then get all the information, including when accounts were last filed and stuff like that, which really can tell you a lot about a business. [/quote]Just as a test (before I bookmarked the sites), I tried a search for our cabinetmaker. Infobilan was the only one that came up with nothing. I must have done something wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I doubt it - I am sure you did it right. It's just that none of the sites seem totally reliable, and they are all inconsistent, which I find is amazing because they should all be based on the same official information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereford Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 In a new twist to this original question we have been told the following with regard to the roofer concerned:He is "registered" and legal in the UK. It is suggested that he is able to work in France legally using his UK business so long as he does not work here for "more than 182 days"We have never heard this as an argument before - surely nearly all the various English artisans could try that one.Has anyone else heard of this? His website says "based in ......"(a French dept.)We emailed to ask for a devis with a siret number/confirmation of French insurance a week ago and have heard nothing directly from him.H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Trollope Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Its rubbish. He can't work like this. Building is a regulated trade and can only be undertaken by properly registered (in France) and insured (in France) businesses. Thousands of individuals and companies manage this and the only reason to try this approach is to avoid paying charges in France (the same charges that the rest of us must pay).Shop him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereford Posted March 7, 2008 Author Share Posted March 7, 2008 Thanks! We rather thought that ourselves but wanted someone else's opinion.H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Shop him! Here Here - leagal workers pay a fortune for the privallage of working - CheersSteve (who is off to check his number works!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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