Solicitors dealing with French purchases

[MontyinFrance]

Hi everyone

I'm new to this board.  We are in the process of looking for our first house in France (which is to be a second home), and would be interesting in people's experiences of using UK based or English speaking solicitors to help with the buying process.  Do people think they got value for money by using a solicitor instead of just the notaire, and can anyone recommend any solicitors? 

Thanks in advance for any replies.

[woolybananasbrother]

I guess the answer is that you pays your money and takes your choice. There is another thread here somewhere which discusses it and there is no clear answer. However for what it is worth, if you are worried, I would use a notaire of your choice here in France. The fees should be much lower than those of a UK solicitor as they are fixed by the French government and UK solicitors always seem to charge a hell of a lot for doing little real work. Others may feel differently.

However if you have money to burn .......[6]

[Cat]

Hello Monty, and welcome to the forum.

It's a question that's been asked a few times here in the past, you might be interested to read some of the replies...

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1004593/ShowPost.aspx

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/924997/ShowPost.aspx

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/836116/ShowPost.aspx

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/640451/ShowPost.aspx

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/599409/ShowPost.aspx

 

That little lot should keep you busy for a while [:)]

[Alan Zoff]

As Cat says, the subject has been well covered.

Ultimately, it comes down to what makes you feel comfortable. There will be plenty of people on here who will say you have nothing to worry about if you leave it all to the French notaire. But their purchases have no doubt gone through without a hitch, as most do. It's when you have a problem, you might wish you had done things differently.

The important thing is to understand what is going on at each stage and only to sign anything when you are confident. If you can do that through a notaire, fine. If that leaves you feeling vulnerable, you might be willing to pay for UK-based advice. But if you do, make sure they are adding value and not merely making the process more expensive without providing any benefit. Lawyers can be expensive translators. 

[dragonrouge]

I am in the law and will not attempt to defend the position of any of my colleagues in the UK and who deal with aspects of French property law.

The system here is so very different and I truly do not believe that you can have a foot in both camps.   However that is my experience and the experience of others may be different.

Perhaps I had a bit of a start but I tried firstly to use at the same time an English based firm in 'tandem' with the Notaires here in France it did not work.  Again my experience others may feel differently.

What I did do though was both to have a Notaire of my choice who worked in tandem with the Notaire for the vendor and paid for a translator both before and at both signings and then did my own homework.

At the time we lived in Normandie so questions of where were the pylons going new roads lotissements and the like plus copious readings of local papers were much the norm.

However in the end you can only do so much and you truly have to be confident and assured.    However if things go wrong who do you approach the Notaire or your UK based legal advisor?

regards

[Nick Trollope]

Can I just point out the obvious; You have no choice but to use a Notaire and any UK-based Solicitor has no power to transact property purchases in France. Also, you can use a different Notaire to the Vendor (although it is not usual) - it won't cost you any more. Lastly, but equally obvious; you, as the buyer pays all the Notaires fees, regardless of how many you use.

 

 

[Renaud]

There was a slapdash programme last night on telly (holiday homes from hell) that featured an English couple who had bought a chateau (paid the money and all) and started renovating it only to be evicted because somebody else had made an offer to buy the property first. This somebody was found by all the French courts to be in the right and now has posession despite not having paid anything.

Would an English solicitor spot this? Should the notaire?

I would advise anybody now buying in France to get a sworn document from the vendor and/or immobilier to the effect that nobody else has a claim on the property. Would this protect you? Can anything?

[Monika]

Your question brought to mind yesterday evening's programme on ITV 1 "Holiday Homes from Hell".

Did anybody see it and what exactly did go wrong there, the English Couple signed on a Chateau in France, they paid and then after they renovated it all they were evicted,  apparently they had a vital document missing? But it was never really explained what exactly went wrong. Such horror stories make you more careful and perhaps an English Solicitor would not be a bad idea.  

[Monika]

Sorry Renaud, we must have been writing this post at the same time with you being a bit quicker in posting!!

[ChezTinns]

We used in tandem a UK based solicitor who was well versed in the French property buying process.  We met him at the Living France exhibition in Taunton.  It was expensive, but for us it gave us a comfort factor and he acted as a middle person between the Immobilier and Notaire - in terms of chasing.  He translated all the documents (Compromis, Acte de Vente etc), and gave us advice about inheritence (second marriage, kids from previous relationships etc), and told us what to expect and when.  Our UK Solicitor was also pleased to have the introduction to the Notaire we used (jointly with the vendor) as they had corresponded beforehand, but not actually worked together.  So from our experience, I would reccommend it for 'first-timers', but again point out, it isn't a cheap option.  If you would like his details, PM me.

Regards, JT

[MontyinFrance]

Thanks everyone for the replies so far - and thanks Cat for digging out all the previous postings, I didn't realise this was such a perennial topic!

ChezTinns, have PM'd you.

[ChezTinns]

Having huge problems in either PMing you or sending an email.  You have either received hundreds or none.  Sorry!  Let me know

JT

[Montcigoux]

The notaire is principally a tax collector  and ensures that title is correct and moreover will only tell you something if you ask him or her, they don't volunteer information as they act for the vendor as well although you can opt to have your own notaire.  The other problem is that the contract to purchase is binding before you get all of the infromation unlike the English process. It is important to undertsand the clause suspensives and know how to use them you can include additional ones. For example I had a clause enduring that the vendors cut the grass on an empty  property with a large acreage as my offer was made in the early Spring and I knew that as we wouldn't complete before the end of the summer I would have foot high grass to cope with. sure enough they didn't cut the grass so I mentioned the clause to the notaire before completion and they did then cut it. You should always go to the Mairie and study the local plans and maps for yourself as well. Any issues with boundaries use a geometre as advised in another recent post.

I have bought four houses in France over  the past eight years and then sold them at different times without a solicitor.  In future even though my french is pretty passable for property related matters I will definitely use an english french specialist solicitor working in tandem with the notaire for peace of mind. So far problems that I have had using only a notaire include only being told about a right of way over the front garden of the house by the notaire only on the day of completion too late to back out, the vendor of one property being wanted by the police and them chasing me for his address and finally not being clear about what were the exact boundaries of my property - a property with a lot of land and woodland. The worst problem was a particular notaire who was extremely slow in dealing with everything (again I only found out later that he had a local reputation) and also didn't reply to emails and phone calls or letters. This caused huge amounts of stress as my purchaser needed to be in the property for the start of the school year. In the end I let her move in anyway. Another notaire also would not commit in writing when I challenged the subsequent sale within twelve months of a property I had sold. Then I couldn't afford a solicitor and the notaire refused to commit in writing and just brushed me off verbally. ( sorry about spelling  and typos no time to spell check)

[woolybananasbrother]

Not sure that there is any guarantee that a solicitor would ferret out these problems.

[Jason Hamery]

I found a rather interesting article about Notaires and Avocats (French lawyers)' respectives roles and what are the advantages of using your own professional adviser: http://www.solicitor.fr/Choice.pdf

My own opinion is: You get what you pay for. Hiring your own solicitor is not just an option, it essential if you are first time buyer. Prior to instructing a French solicitor in-depth research work, by visiting websites that offer free information about French law, can help you solve some of the issues such as inheritance law for example, thus reducing your legal bill.

 

[ColinE]

Hi

For what its worth, my english house agent said I should get an english solicitor, and gave me one, I spoke to her, she wanted £3,000

just to do the buying in France, a friend who is an agent in France said you do not need one the notiare will do all that for you, and gave me one that spoke good English, he also told me any question just drop me an email, could not be more helpful.

 

Colin