Re: Neither France nor the UK will give me Child Benefit!

[Russethouse]

Debra posted this in another thread, it might help: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/residence-rules.htm#4 but she seems pretty clued up about it so perhaps she will see your plea and help.

Are Newcastle sending you a letter to say they will no longer be paying Child allowance ?

[Russethouse]

Did you take letter from Newcastle to CAF ? (Sorry - I know you might think its basic, but you just never know !)

[Russethouse]

I scrolleddown on the link I gave you and there is some stuff for people leaving the UK but it is more to do with where you are ordinarily resident, I'm not sure how that would apply as the quibble seems to be about the type of pension your husband receives.There may be other stuff if you root around.

[Russethouse]

Somewhere along the line it looks like you are going to need a letter from someone to prove that your husbands pension is from his ex employers ( the civil service) rather than the government (that most people would be entitled too). Its identifying who would be the best person to approach - it may be Newcastle but at a guess it may be someone who administers the scheme your husband derives the benefit from.

Just a guess !

[BJSLIV]

The UK will only pay child benefit if the person responsible for the child is present and domiciled in the UK. I fear that you meet neither of these requirements.

You are not in receipt of a State Invalidity Pension you are receiving a civil service early retirement pension.

I am pretty certain that any entitlement you have now rests with the French authorities based on whatever qualification rules apply.

[Kali3]

Tempsperdu - child benefit does still exist in the UK and it is fixed and not means-tested. Child tax credit is something completely different - different claim form, sliding scale. As I understand things, the children have to be living in the UK for either to be claimable.

 

[westland]

[quote user="BJSLIV"]

I am pretty certain that any entitlement you have now rests with the French authorities based on whatever qualification rules apply.

[/quote]

 

And as these are different to the UK this could make a difference also as to what might be received.  My daughter had to pay back child benefit to the UK that she had continued to receive for the first few months they were living in France.  With one child aged five they receive no child benefit here in France, it stopped after the age of three - presumably these are the French child benefit rules.

[Llwyncelyn]

As a number of contributors have mentioned the question of residency and centres of interest is one of the tests to be applied.  Indeed a question which has vexed lots of much better legal brains that I is one of when temporary becomes permanent.  However that is another matter.  If you residency centre of interest and other issues such as your intention tell you that your country of residence is France then responsibility (if they do indeed have any and I would not know having no children!) falls to the French.

I am currently arguing a legal point with the Tribunals in the UK on the Social Services law as to when a temporary residence in France becomes permanent in that the claimant has not totally severed her ties with the UK owns property there investments etc goes back for specialist medical treatment etc etc and her approach is that she still has not decided  whether or not and after a short period of just months if she is indeed going to go back.

[Sunday Driver]

Translation of TP's link:

Family benefits

Who can profit from it?

Any person residing in France (without consideration of nationality) having at least two dependent children residing in France which have or have not a family tie with the adult.

The age of the children must be:

• lower than 16 years for young people in compulsory education, being registered in an educational establishment;

• lower than 20 years for young people not in compulsory education and whose work remuneration does not exceed 55% of the SMIC.

---

What is necessary to do?

• Send a written request to the caisse d'allocation familiale or, for the agricultural workers, to the caisse de mutualité sociale agricole. 

• Attach to the request (according to case):

  • a birth certificate (for a new-born baby);

  • a certificate of enrolment in a school establishment;

  • a medical certificate attesting the physical impossibility for the child to go to the school because of an unspecified disease;

  • a specimen of an apprenticeship contract;

  • a certificate of enrolment in a secondary, technical or professional higher educational establishment;

  • the certificate of enrolement established by the director of a correspondance course and the obligatory opinion of the inspector of academy.

Foreigners must also provide one title or document proving the regularity of their entry and stay in France (of themselves and their dependent children).

People not having a family tie with the child must provide a judgement of supervision, a delegation of the parental authority, a certificate on the honor of the parents resident abroad or any document proving the incapacity of the parents to ensure their responsibilities.

---

How much is the amount?

Calculations are made starting from the monthly base of family benefit:

• with 2 children: base monthly X 0,32;

• with 3 children: base monthly X 0,73;

• with 4 children: base monthly X 1,13;

• by child moreover: base monthly X 0,41.

Increase for a child of more than 11 years: base monthly X 0,09.
Increase for a child of more than 16 years: base monthly X 0,16.

Increases are extended to the recipients of the RMI.

Note: when the family consists of two children with rights to family benefits, the elder one does not profit from the  increases.

 

[Will]

In taxation issues, a lot of confusion arises from the concepts of domicile and residence. Domicile is something that will normally stay with you for life, unless you sever all ties with your native country. Residence however is far more variable. France and Britain have quite different rules for determining residence for tax purposes (and we are talking income etc tax rather than capital gains here, which uses yet another different set of criteria). For example, Britain has 'ordinarily resident' under which you can live in France but still pay your taxes etc in Britain for a limited time. Because of these rules, it is possible to be tax resident in two or more countries at the same time, which is usually bad news where no double taxation agreement exists but can be advantageous where it does.

These ideas spill over into things like tax allowances and due benefits, so it is a very complicated subject, and one which is open to interpretation by the departments concerned rather than being subject to clear-cut rules.

[Sunday Driver]

Here is the UK statutory instrument entitled [url=http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/si/2006-0223.pdf#search='child%20benefit%20statutory']The Child Benefit (General) Regulations 2006[/url]

The relevent section is Part 6 -  Residence.

 

[Russethouse]

 Can the OP get hold of who ever made the decision in France and ask them how she can prove that she IS entitled to the allowance ?

I still think it is to do with the source of the pension, rather than residency.

[Georgina]

I had cause to speak to the Child Benefit Office in Newcastle and after she huffed and puffed (the usual telephone manner for many people in local government) she told me that France and England were actually "fighting" quite a bit about who was responsible for paying it!  So there, from the horses' mouth.  I said I did not want to start a war so left it there! I must admit when reading the conditions for being eligible, I doubt that half the people I have spoken with at the CBO would be able understand it either.  There are so many ifs and buts. But it keeps someone in work.

Georgina[:D]

[Russethouse]

Puzzled, As I send before I think you may be wise to try and find out who administers your husbands invalidy benefit and ask them to write a letter explaining that it is different from the invalidity benefit that any person (no matter who they were employed by) would be entitled to in the UK.

You may to pay for a professional translator though, so hopefully they will keep the letter short !

Good Luck

 

[Suzanne32]

I read your post with interest. We stopped claiming child benefit in the UK last March, but didn't apply for child benefit until this summer as we were busy working on the house/with guests etc and we had been led to believe that any claim would be back dated.

All seemed to be going well, we supplied every piece of information asked for and on logging onto our dossier on the CAF web site early October I was delighted to see that a payment would be made on the 5th of that month, which it duly was. We the wrote to CAF ( so much easier than the phone) to ask about the back payments. These too showed up on the CAF website and then nothing. We have since contacted them and they are now saying that because my husband receives a pension in the UK then benefit should be paid by Newcastle. We have phoned Newcastle who are adament that that they will not pay us. It seems the problem is similar to yours in that they think my husbands pension is a state pension, which it is not - he took early retirement from teaching. I have today, written to them again. If we make any head way I shall let you know. There is an english speaking help line for health insurance who have tried to help although with little success so far, but they might be worth a try.I can let you have the number ( not sure if I am allowed to post it )

[Wendy]

Have sent a PM as there is a certain route you need to go being civil service. We've been there and done that.

[Suzanne32]

Curiouser and curiouser!

We visited CAF to try and resolve the issue of the child allowance and explain that although my husband receives a pension it is an occupational, contributory pension and not a state benefit. The woman was very helpful and sympathetic but equally insistent that we should be paid by the UK. She went away and spoke to several of her colleagues who could not agree as to what should happen. I then received a phone call from her the following day to say that although it was the UK who should pay they would pay us the ' difference' between what we would receive in the UK and the amount here. A step in the right direction I guess.

Has anyone else heard of this happening?

[Russethouse]

I'm sorry I can't help you with information about an ombudsman but I wonder if you have considered writing to your MEP ?

[5-element]

[quote user="Puzzled"]

 

Is there an ombudsman that I can complain ?

[/quote]

 

How about going to the "Mediateur de la Republique"? There is one in each departement, and this is the closest to an ombudsman. Their role is to mediate  between persons and state institutions. They make sure they protect your rights. The Mairie would be able to tell you how to contact the Mediateur for your departement.

[Maria]

[quote user="Suzanne32"].......

although it was the UK who should pay they would pay us the ' difference' between what we would receive in the UK and the amount here. A step in the right direction I guess.

Has anyone else heard of this happening?

[/quote]I remember reading lots about claiming this difference or 'top up' between what the UK pays and what France would pay but now can't find anything about it.  Does anybody know exactly what it is called or how one claims it?

[Maria]

    I guess not then!

[Busy Bee]

Hi Maria,

I sucessfully claimed top up from the CAF, including the ACTIPAJE - and when it was finally sorted out I received a whopping £1000 from UK child Benefit and about 3000 euros from the CAF - mind you, no one paid me anything for about a year - meant we could actually celebrate Christmas that year after all.

It's called Allocation Differentiale I think and whether it's payable, depends on individual circumstances such as number of children and household income.  Once it's agreed the CAF send you a form every 3 months, to send to the UK, the UK then loses the form or fills it in incorrectly, you then send it back to the CAF who repeat the procedure - ie lose the form.  You then throw yourself on the mercy of the friendliest CAF person you can find - I'm afraid I cried in front of the nice man who helped me and eventually they pay up.   

So it is possible, you just have to be determined!

Good luck[:D]

[Maria]

    Thanks for that - I'll try explaining that now you've said what it's called, since when we told them we thought we could claim the difference between the two, they just looked blank and then negative!