gosub Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 If anyone wants to keep up with the cost of things, I have just changed our no complications standard Regime, to Communauté Universal for €420. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassis Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 If by "standard regime" you mean you had an English marriage, so possessions would be treated as "biens separés" on death of one partner, doesn't the cost of changing regime depend what your worldly goods, chattels and purse are worth? So each case is different? Or have I got hold of the wrong end of the stick?Thankfully the changes Sarko made to inheritance tax law means we don't now have to change regime to avoid previous inheritance tax issues (having no previous marriages or children to complicate things on death of first partner and not caring what happens once both of us are dead). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 No I don't beleive it is in any way dependant on how much you own - it is not a tax it is the notaires costs of drawing up and registering the document only, the doc does not list what you own or refer to it just the marriage regime. Under certain circumsatances - mainly if you are not tax resident in France it may refer to property types e.g. 'this agreement only applies to French real estate' but even there it makes no difference to whether you own 1 or 50 properties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 About 4 years ago when we changed our marriage regime the Notaire visited the house to value it, we are tax resident. His invoice shows tax calculated on value of assests declared ie the house. He didn't ask us if we had anything else to declare [:D] However looking at the invoice I think it does refer to all worldly goods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 [quote user="Poppy"] About 4 years ago when we changed our marriage regime the Notaire visited the house to value it, we are tax resident. His invoice shows tax calculated on value of assests declared ie the house. He didn't ask us if we had anything else to declare [:D] However looking at the invoice I think it does refer to all worldly goods.[/quote]Hi!Your family situation was simple.It get more complicated when you have children ( out of present or former ) because they have to be advised ( because they can oppose this ). And then the matter will have to go to court.And now if the children are under age, it gets yet more complicated, because it goes to court with 2 lawyers.Yours,giantpanda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 Hello giantpanda, intrigued to know how you know my family situation [:D]I understand a lot of the complications but was just trying to confine my reply to the financial side of the change of regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert the InfoGipsy Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 We changed our regime just before buying property in France a couple of years ago. The notaire didn't bother about our three children, although he was aware of them from our livret de famille, and there was no mention of tax based on our wordly goods or anything else. From memory, the fee was about €250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 We did the same a couple of years ago, again just before buying our house, just asked were the children aware, we said yes and he proceeded[8-)] Not aware of the individual cost, but we still got change from our notaires fees!![:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 This has got me a litle concerned perhaps if I loosely explain our position someone may have some experience of dealing with similar issues?We bought our French home as individuals albeit living as husband and wife.We are both second time around me never married..my other half married but divorced.We both have kids..3 each from before we met and two in common!We have recently had our wills made professionally and in contemplation of marriage (Sept 13th)We have made in our wills what we believe to be adequate provision for all the kids on the event of both dying at the same time.We have made provision for all assets to go to he spouse in the event of first death...and were advised this would stand up in a French Court........I am getting the feeling that it's not as simple as all that.....Anyone managed to sort out a similar situation? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosub Posted August 15, 2008 Author Share Posted August 15, 2008 I changed our regime because although under current French Law and it;s much better than it used to be. If I died first then my wife would own her part of the property in France and have use of it for her lifetime, however she would almost certainly want to return to the UK, but she can not sell it, without consent of the other inheritors i.e. our children and then there are possible taxes for the children to pay. If my wife died first, then I would stay in France anyway and let nature and inheritance take it's course.By changing the regime if she wants to sell up and go back to the UK, then she can sell without formality and no taxes to pay. She would have full control of all the assets.Maybe I could have explained it better but you will get the gist of it.If you have children from previous relationships, it's not so easy but possible, if you can get the agreement of all interested parties, you would have to see a notaire to get the full SP.It seems to me that having a Will in France is of no great use, unless you have no one to leave your estate to, inheritance laws will always take precedence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polremy Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 Do I understand you right?We have been married only to each other for 38 years.We have three children all of whom are reliable, love us and each other and are over the age of consent.I have been worrying about making a will in France and have almost entered the solicitors office many times to enquire.Do you think there really is no point and that, in the event of one of us dying or both of us dying simultaneously, our property and any money in France would go to all the right people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert the InfoGipsy Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Polremy,No point in a will, as far as I can see, but plenty of point in changing your marital regime. It simplifies matters for the survivor and prevents any possibility of a tax bill to your offspring when the first of you pops off.One other thing to be kept in mind is that although your three children sound just like you'd want them to be, if one of them acquires a spouse who is less cooperative you could be storing up trouble. I remember when my Grannie-in-law died her 2 sons were ready to sort things out amicably but one of the wives (aunt in law) was determined to get 'her rights'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert the InfoGipsy Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 [quote user="BIG MAC"]We both have kids..3 each from before we met and two in common!We have recently had our wills made professionally and in contemplation of marriage (Sept 13th)We have made in our wills what we believe to be adequate provision for all the kids on the event of both dying at the same time.We have made provision for all assets to go to he spouse in the event of first death...and were advised this would stand up in a French Court........[/quote]It sounds like you had your will drawn up in the UK (England or Scotland?). In that case French succession laws would totally ignore 'provision for all assets to go to the spouse' and the children of whoever died first would get a huge chunk. The other kids would eventually get their share of whatever the surviving spouse received.You need to see a notaire as soon as possible and ensure that your marriage regime matches your wishes. I'm pretty sure a tontine would be totally useless here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosub Posted August 16, 2008 Author Share Posted August 16, 2008 I would say if you have doubts see a Notaire. Here are a couple of links for information.LegalWills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Hi!You have not mentioned to which regime.If it was Communauté Universelle avec attribution intégrale, there has be a notable change of regulations 1.1.2007, which makes the consent ( or more precisely the lack of objection ) a must.Yours,giantpanda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Hi!You ( Albert the InfoGipsy ) have not mentioned to which regime.If it was Communauté Universelle avec attribution intégrale, there has be a notable change of regulations 1.1.2007, which makes the consent ( or more precisely the lack of objection ) a must.Yours,giantpanda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 [quote user="BIG MAC"]We bought our French home as individuals albeit living as husband and wife.We are both second time around me never married..my other half married but divorced.We both have kids..3 each from before we met and two in common!We have recently had our wills made professionally and in contemplation of marriage (Sept 13th)[/quote]Hi!Could you let us know where you made the wills?Namely if you are French fiscal residents, and the wills have been made in GB, they are practically worth nothing, unless you still have property in GB, and limited to the property.Yours,giantpanda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babcock Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 I am a bit concerned that the Sidalls info regarding changes to the reserved heir in Jan 2007 are not reflected in the notaires de france site. Further a few years ago we both signed gifts between spouses which our notaire assured us was the best way to go. How can anyone be sure that even the info from a notaire is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert the InfoGipsy Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 [quote user="giantpanda"]Hi!You ( Albert the InfoGipsy ) have not mentioned to which regime.If it was Communauté Universelle avec attribution intégrale, there has be a notable change of regulations 1.1.2007, which makes the consent ...[/quote]Greetings, Pomhorn (?)I don't set myself up as an expert on any branch of French (or any other) law, but just speak from my own experience. If that is now out of date then a quick chat with a notaire is all that it takes to get the current situation.I didn't mention which regime because that is up to the notaire to advise. It's one thing to know that there are problems with a particular situation, but another to dare give detailed advice on how to correct them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Thanks all, If nothing else it seems clear I need a drastic rethink as our kids inheritances are weighted in such a way that when push comes to shove they should inherit from step parents or the reverse where we are the step parents and things should be pretty even between them . The French system would put the kybosh on this and if we cant get this sorted then we may need to sell up rather than leave a surviving pertner with a huge headache.Could I maybe set up a French company to own the property with ourselves as directors or is this just going to result in the same situation?Thanks thus far.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert the InfoGipsy Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 I can't remember the details, but there is a special type of company in France that is specifically set up to own property and I'm fairly sure I've seen people recommend this as an option. However, just to emphasise, you need to talk to a notaire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maricopa Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 [quote user="Albert the InfoGipsy"] there is a special type of company in France that is specifically set up to own property ..... However, just to emphasise, you need to talk to a notaire. [/quote]It's called an SCI (Société Civile Immobiliére). Apart from that, I know nothing about them[8-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Hi!To give you an appreciation is difficult, because there are too many unclear points:1. Are you French fiscal resident?2. If not then you have a French maison secondaire?3. Where were the wills made?4. What will be your marriage status?There is a justified doubt that as you put it:We have made provision for all assets to go to he spouse in the eventof first death...and were advised this would stand up in a FrenchCourt......Yours,giantpanda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosub Posted August 19, 2008 Author Share Posted August 19, 2008 You can get some info from this SITE. I know someone who changed to an SCI, but it was quite expensive to do after purchasing the property. It did however give them peace of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Been away in France.........thanks all for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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