French Lessons

[idun]

mint has mentioned her french classes, so I was wondering how many of you go to french classes.

I did very few, and it probably shows. And yet I knew someone who arrived before me, and maybe 20 years later was still going and I don't actually think that their french ended up better or worse than mine. Well not the 'langue' bit of language, and I have no idea what their written french was like.

Still, I would not like to think that anyone whose french is not very good and doesn't go to lessons/groups, stagnates and doesn't try and improve in other ways, social contact and just talking to anyone anywhere and making friends was my preferred way. I don't think I would have even liked the conversation groups, at least not the one nearest to where I lived....... a friend went and told me about it...... wasn't for her and I know it wouldn't have been for me.

ps, we all do what we are happiest with, and so we should, so I was just wondering.

[mint]

Well, Id, I go because I love my French lessons.

I knew hardly a word when we came in 2007 and I was researching a course in a university just so that I could "crack it" as quickly as possible.  You see, the academic way is what I have known all my life and I was, since childhood, a bit of a swot (yes, and unpopular to boot!)

Then I met my first French teacher and we adored each other (still do).  She was recovering from a mastectomy and I "helped" her by writing on the board (still teacher's pet at the grand old age of 58!).

Once she had recovered, she no longer needed me to do the writing but by then I was enjoying the lessons and my friendship with her and so I continued, off and on, but mostly on.

In 2010, we moved here and, mainly out of interest, I sussed out the classes near me.  It was great to be out and about in my new neighbourhood and I quickly became friends with some of my fellow students.  So now, I so love going, it would be hard to stop.

Like you, I mix with mostly French neighbours and acquaintances and, right from the word go, I spoke and made social contact.  One of my first "important" conversations was when we got to our house and found the water was off.  There and then, I phoned the Water Authority!  Such confidence and arrogance...............and me with my phone phobia!  So, you see, I would never have been reluctant to communicate, regardless of how much or how little French I actually know and can use[:D]

[idun]

 I know you enjoy your lessons mint, just wondering if others do, or don't and maybe what they do instead.

[mint]

And I understand what you have said about French conversation sessions![+o(]

In the beginning, when I knew all of about 10 carefully memorised phrases, I would have gained nothing as I wouldn't have had much to say and now, when I CAN say a few words, I wouldn't want to listen to the mind-numbing and ear-offending efforts of others - especially if I have to PAY for that pleasure!

As a matter for your interest, id, I have recently been congratulated on my "local accent".....lol!  Some accent............but at least it does show that I am learning by ear as well as in class![:D]

[idun]

I always reckoned that I would have rid myself of my 'english accent' if I had lived in the SW and been able to say 'sink' instead of 'sank' for example.

I do try, but anglaise I sound and I anglaise I shall always sound.

I don't think my friend had to pay to go to the conversation group. Just not her sort of people and wouldn't have been mine. I quite enjoy a bit of gossip, but not to just hear about bad things and snipe at people and their choices. Life is a rich tapestry, so I'm rather fond of an eclectic mix of tittle tattle.

[mint]

What I really like about my fellow students, both here and in the Charente Maritime, is that we are all more or less at the same niveau.

We are a mix of 5 or 6 nationalities and the fact that we are all in the advanced class means that we would have taken time and made efforts to get to grips with the language.

It's not that I am snobby about people who can't or won't learn but classes that do not stretch you become extremely boring, especially when the teacher has to cover the same grounds over and over again.  If I weren't learning new stuff, I would be off[:D]

[Chancer]

In ten years I have never come across any organised French lessons/classes, and from the other Brits that I have encountered in that time I would say there is no demand!

There was an English woman who offered to teach me but I was insistent on a native speaker, one day I heard her in a boulangerie saying UNN baguette svp" and I cringed, thinking that baguette is a masculin noun I could forgive but the way she sad "un" as in "unreal" was atrocious, I cannot express in writing the french prononciation of "un" but anyone Learning would soon be corrected and pronounce it correctly, for a self claimed teacher it was unforgiveable.

I eventually found a French lady who teaches English and French at the lycée to give me lessons on the black, I did one afternoon per week in term time for 18 months before she tired of the commitment, I would happily take lessons again but there is no-one, she gave me all the bases and my proficiency has increased 1000% since then thanks to having a good grounding.

I too tried at a university, I was told that I could sign up as an auditeur libre and sit in on any lessons, that would have been perfect as the other would have been subjects of interest where I would already have had some vocabulary, the main one for me was the French language for foreign students but there I fell foul of the professeur who was dead against having me in the class, as a result they would allow me to join any class except the one I needed most, perhaps I will try again one day.

[mint]

Chance, what I WOULD say is that the class situation is a lot more fun than individual lessons and, IMHO, you learn much more as you are also learning from the others.  They would know things that you don't know and they would equally bring their own interests to the lessons.

My first teacher was very keen on literature and reading, not so much this second one.  BUT, I have won her over by photocopying things for the whole class to read.  Now a Dutch lady who is also, like me, a keen reader, photocopies things to read in class.

We read all sorts of stuff:  not so much newspapers because we all more or less have enough French to read newspapers and magazines, but the paroles of songs, some poetry and both classical and contemporary books.

Chance, you'd so enjoy it!  I do hope that you manage to find an appropriate class for you.

The other thing is, you are more likely to meet up with people who enjoy the language and want to learn it.  I speak English with other Brits but I do speak French with the Brits in my class, even if we just come across each other in the street and are not in the class situation.  I think it's because we are all so keen to learn and so love to practise..............[:D]

[idun]

It was always said that taking a french lover would be the best way to learn the language..... and I suppose it could be said that there was a common interest too.

Never even thought of trying it myself, but it makes sense for those who are willing to try this alternative method of getting to grips with french[Www]

[mint]

Id, if you could cast even the most cursory glance at some of the men in my village, I don't think you'd even be fleetingly tempted[:D]

[Chancer]

Mint, I will never find a class in this area, a Tri-lingual English lady who I know well did try setting one up and despite her knowing pretty much everyone in the English ghettos and it being subventionné (whats that in English)? by the comm de comms and virtually free there were no takers at all, at the time I was having lessons on the same afternoon so I couldnt support her, she did however pick up quite a few French clients who wanted to improve their English as I indeed have been approached many times over the years for the same thing.

I would have to go to Amiens or Lille where there is an economic migrant population who want to work and integrate to find a class if one exists, we used to have one in AVF which wasnt bad. Sadly the inactif migrants in my area dont have the slightest desire to learn French, they may say they do but their actions bely that, I realise that I will be doing some people whom I have never met a dis-service, there must be others like me that just keep their head down, dont socialise with the English and quietly just get on with Learning the language.

Did I ever mention the (other) English guy in my village? When I arrived the Mairie told me that one had lived there for a couple of décades after marrying a French lady, they said they would ask him if they could give me his number, I thought it would be very usefull as I was all on my own, didnt know any other English in the area, had problems that nobody around me could help me with and hadnt thought about looking for a forum.

Anyway the lady in the Mairie was sheepish when I next asked her so I just thought the guy wanted his privacy, no problem, I respected and could identify with that, then one evening in a bar a merry lady on hearing my accent gave me the chat up line "come here, I love you!" the only words of English that she knew, turned out she was the sister in law of said English guy, she told me that he refused to speak with me and siad that I was only coming thei eto profit from the misery of the locals to buy cheap and then sell at a great profit [8-)], well at least I knew where I stood so I never got to meet him until recently by chance.

I was at the Gendarmerie waiting my turn, the couple in front of me were reporting the theft of their papers and passports etc, the woman was doing all the talking and the guy said a few words but with a pronounced English accent, I politely asked them if they were from my village and presented myself (in french) the woman was very pleased to meet me at last and said she had heard many good things about me, the guy was embarrassed and muttered something about being very busy when he was asked by the Mairie, I told him not to be embarrassed and that his SIL had explained exactly what the situation was, what really chuffed me was that he had to speak in English and I stuck to speaking in French.

He has been there at least 20 years, maybe 30 +.

[Gardengirl]

As my husband wanted to do French and preferred to have company, we joined the AVF French class, which had a choice of building on beginners or advanced, so advanced it was. At first we were the only English in the group, the rest were Dutch, but other English joined.

However, although listed as conversation, it was very formal, loads of grammar exercises etc but with some more interesting bits that kept us happy, but after 3 years I'd had more than enough of grammar exercises I'd done at school. The Dutch and some of the English had never learned much grammar, whereas it was almost second nature to put pronouns etc into the right order in a sentence.

I've always found that chatting to French people made a big improvement in one's vocabulary, and new words usually stick in my head, but my husband is one who learns better when he can see the words written down. I wish I could remember names and English words better though!

[vivienz]

I started French conversation classes (in England) in the spring and it's been good fun so far.  The classes are informal in so far as they are unstructured and we talk about whatever we have done over the last week, a little bit of current affairs, etc, with the teacher coaching grammar and pronunciation as we go along (not withstanding my comments re. salty or spicy in another thread!).  The group is of mixed ability which can be useful as it's a few decades since my 'O' level in French and there are plenty of gaps in my knowledge which get filled in as we all express ourselves at our different levels.  The one thing I find a little frustrating is when group members prepare a little speech about their week and read it verbatim rather than engaging in conversation about it.  I find that conversing takes a lot more effort with the range of vocabulary and grammar that is needed, along with the agility to apply it all at conversational speed and this is what I need practice in.  I guess it's as much a confidence thing as anything, but if you don't make a start you will find it hard to improve, in my view.

I'm a little like you, mint, in that I like the structure of a more academic route, but that isn't really open to me at the moment so conversation classes along with some self imposed study of grammar works for me right now.  I'd love the opportunity for more formal study, but that will be a treat for when time allows.  I'm hoping that my skills will improve more rapidly when we've completed our property purchase and spend more time in France, more regularly. 

[Judith]

I've been doing a French class since I got here, but admittedly came with a reasonable level of everything but good spoken French (like Mint I'm academically minded), having done A level plus business courses in UK before I came out.  I changed classes when we moved house, and now use the equivalent of the AVF, where I take the only advanced level course, partly because I like the teacher so much.  It varies in student quality and what we do every year.

Having said that  over the last 4 years, my French has improved  because of being  involved in the French organisations I am involved in, because I am reading and writing emails in French, and going to meetings conducted in French.  When I first arrived I would get perhaps 10-20 % of spoken French in a speech, now it is 90-95% unless they are badly spoken or gabble.  The accent is less problematic since I hear it a lot now.  My biggest problem is still the gabble when all speak together, and as I see no French TV (cannot get our orange service to provide it now, though it once did ..)  nor do I listen much to the radio (in either language) so most of my French has come by being involved in organisations, but in amongst all of that, the French courses do play a still significant role.

We are doing past tenses at the moment, and for last week's homework, I managed to write a short poem (inspired by - who knows what), which I have not tried to do since I was 18yrs old and an A level student,  so can't be bad!

[mint]

How heartening to come here this morning and to hear about all your efforts, all those contributing to this conversation.

A few quickie replies:

GG, like you, English words and names (in either language) often escape me.  Though with words, I will often think of the exact mot juste that I want and couldn't find at the time of use.............ggggggggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Vivienz, don't worry, wait till you get here and have to speak and understand French everyday, you will make progress.  I was going to say progress would be "inevitable" (incontournable?) but I changed my mind because I do hear many people who never seem to make progress.  Yes, they perhaps understand more but, as for SPEAKING!!!  Forget it!

Judith, you are so right, nothing like joining (if possible) all-French groups or associations and you wouldn't have a choice other than to listen carefully and to speak.

Don't forget that, after all, people do just use the most common words in their everyday speech.  I forget the stats but I don't think you need more than perhaps 10 000 words of any language in order to be able to, say, read a newspaper.

What I truly love is when I come across some French person who loves literature and/or classical music.  THEN I truly come into my own and can exchange views and jabber happily for hours with no thought for any grammar [:P]  Passé composé, futur proche, subjunctive au présent......all happily forgotten as I am so impassioned by the subject that all communication is possible[:D]

The "but" of all this "learning" is to be able to communicate and that you can do, provided it is about something that both you and the other person are interested in.

I think that possibly there is a fundamental reason why we get problems communicating with foncs and others of their ilk.  It's because, whilst we might have more than a passing interest in the subject, they, alas, couldn't care less!

Finally a plea to you all.  If you haven't come across it or contributed, could you please help keep alive the thread:  Clair, are you paying attention, useful expressions.

I have had many little things that puzzled me explained very well.  I do believe that there we explore minor (maybe major too) aspects that go a little beyond scratching the surface.

Happy Learning or perhaps I should say bonne continuation!

[idun]

Judith, I agree that for hearing the babble, there is little better than french tv. And the good thing is that you don't have to answer, just listen...... even now I talk to the tv and repeat what you've heard, to try and help my pronunciation.

IF you have UK satellite you may be able to pick up TV5 Monde, I watch it every day. There is some rubbish on it, but gems too and the news.

Also french people say things like 'ouah' instead of 'oui' and that is just one bit every day language.

I think that singing along helps with accents too. There is one specific 60's song by Francoise Hardy, 'Le temps de l'amour' (I love it with it's tinny guitar) and even

though I cannot sing, I sing along to it, as I am sure that it 'helps'

my french accent..... singing sort of gets my mouth in the correct

position, better than just talking. But as I cannot sing, I can only do

this alone.

My next question, how many gros mots do people now know? I have rather a full vocabulary one way or another, I find most people swear quite a lot and even my most literary friends use the word 'pu tain' a lot, which always surprises me.

[nectarine]

There's a very active Monday morning language school around here which costs €20 a year. Mostly English learning French but plenty of French (mostly retired) who come to learn English, and the classes are a mix of both nationalities. The association was set up with the support of the mayor and people come from up to 15 miles or more to attend, it's very popular, with over 100 people and a waiting list. But it's not just the class - it's also a good network for newly arrived in this area to meet people of both nationalities, ask questions and get support. We've been going for six years during which our French has greatly improved and I now take a class, but it's as much for the social aspect as anything else.

[Judith]

Idun

Thanks for the tip about TV Monde .. we do have satellite, but it's a sky product, but maybe they'll have something ... biggest problem au moment, is time to actually watch it (and that fact that most TV no matter which nationalitonality, is pretty rubbish these days! )

[idun]

TV5 Monde is 796 on SKY, if you can get it. I need to change my contract, but whatever I take, must have it included. I think it is 825 on Virgin TV.

[Judith]

Thanks Idun, we have Sky ... and though haven't had a chance to try it out yet I did download the programme list last night ..

[idun]

I usually watch France2's Journal de 20h which is actually on TV5 Monde at 20h30 french time. On a Saturday evening at 18h30 approx we usually watch Faux pas Rever or some documentary of the same ilk or Thalassa.

And then well, I just dip in really. One Sunday afternoon there was a good film on, only on UK tv it would have been shown well after the watershed, and probably after 11 at night, such was part of the content.... that is french films for you[:D]

[YCCMB]

Tv5 monde also has a really good website with a wealth of materials for learning French. Includes quite a lot of video comprehension exercises, IIRC.

[NormanH]

I  can't imagine moving to a country and then learning the language [8-)]

How do people know what the place is like or whether they will be happy there if they can't ask a local, read a loca or national newspaper or magazine?  How do people occupy themselves if they can't converse, watch a film or TV, go the the theatre or pursue other social activities? What happens when you want to share a joke, support someone in a crisis or your car breaks down?

Then of course you might be ill....

[Rabbie]

[quote user="NormanH"]I  can't imagine moving to a country and then learning the language [8-)]

How do people know what the place is like or whether they will be happy there if they can't ask a local, read a loca or national newspaper or magazine?  How do people occupy themselves if they can't converse, watch a film or TV, go the the theatre or pursue other social activities? What happens when you want to share a joke, support someone in a crisis or your car breaks down?

Then of course you might be ill....

[/quote]I had no choice  when I moved to Sweden for work reasons many years ago. Armed only with a copy of "Teach Yourself Swedish" and a English-Swedish dictionary it did not take too long to be able to read basic Swedish. It was helped by the fact that the many English language TV programs were subtitled rather than dubbed so that was another way of building a vocabulary. Basic communication was helped by the fact that most Swedes were reasonably fluent or better in English.

My own experience is that it is much easier to learn a language if you are living in the country and hearing how people actually use the language.

 

[mint]

What you do is, you move to the country (having looked at the languages of all the countries of YOUR choice) and you take a stab at which you'd like to learn best and you move there, everything else being equal.

Then you set about learning and you put a bit of effort into it.  Inevitably, you'd learn straightaway because you'd need to buy things, sort domestic stuff out, banks, etc etc.

It's called having an adventurous spirit [:D]

You start and you go, go, go and, when you come to an obstacle, you find a way around it and then you go, go, go some more.

If, however, you are of a nervous disposition, then I'd say make sure you have an exit strategy[I]