French Lessons

[YCCMB]

If I had had to learn the languages of all the countries I've spent time living in, I'd be fluent in about half a dozen languages now. Like many, I've been called upon in the course of my work to live abroad as an expat ( a real one) and rarely have I had the preparation time to brush up on my Swahili, Arabic or Vietnamese before I've been bundled onto a plane and told to get on with it.

There are circumstances where one might fetch up on foreign shores without much grounding in the language, and nominally, you're give a degree of choice in the matter. Often, that choice is "Do you want the job, or not?"

[NormanH]

Ok for real ex-pats who have been re-located for work I can see that it isn't practical. But I was talking about people choosing to go to live somewhere that is perhaps picturesque or bucolic or where they can feel like lord of the manor because their pounds have bought a lot of land , but have no idea of what is being said around them, have to take on trust what estate agents have said and need English speaking professionals to sort out their paperwork.

WHY?

Why not first  take lessons, watch French films and read  books, get French TV and chat in French on online chatrooms and then, once a sound base of knowledge of the language and customs and character of the people has been acquired take the plunge?

That said YCCMB is a fund of knowledge about learning French.

[mint]

 I disagree.  We came with the specific purpose of learning the language and to have something to really make us work our brains in our retirement [:D]

We knew a lot of people where we were last located in the UK and life was a bit too cushy.  No great challenge when everything came easily and friends and families couldn't do enough for us.

Some of us like to, as the current expression would have it, get out of our comfort zone[:P]

AND we couldn't sit around taking lessons, etc.  It would have taken too long and, anyway, coming here to live is the ultimate immersion course, n'est ce pas?[:D]

[idun]

[quote user="NormanH"]I  can't imagine moving to a country and then learning the language [8-)]

How do people know what the place is like or whether they will be happy there if they can't ask a local, read a loca or national newspaper or magazine?  How do people occupy themselves if they can't converse, watch a film or TV, go the the theatre or pursue other social activities? What happens when you want to share a joke, support someone in a crisis or your car breaks down?

Then of course you might be ill....

[/quote]

Well we had already had bad illness to deal with and my husband got over it, not that long actually before our move and being young, which is a point in life never to be underestimated..............  IF we had thought about it, which we didn't, would have doubted that lightening would strike twice.

We really knew nothing of France and about five words of french before our move. IF we had hated it, would have moved on. It was an adventure. We had a few preconceived ideas, but there you go, I would have had them if I had moved to say, London too.  I was fascinated with this new country and the people and it's complete differences to my previous experiences.

I still feel that being young is the time for such a move, especially without full working knowledge of the language. And as I am now 'old' and knowing of how different life is and how being older throws all sorts at a being, would never move somewhere in ignorance. As you can gather, I've already done that, but as a young woman, full of energy, not knowing things, were easy obstacles to over come. That is how see it. And I never wanted to stay in France for my dotage, our move back at retirement age was always planned and we certainly 'know' France, well 'our' France.

[Daft Doctor]

I think as far as learning French goes, it is very much horses for courses. I would view group French lessons as akin to group ski lessons, socially good but not necessarily specific to your needs. I did some self-learning with Michel Thomas and the like before I came to France, but for my first year here had regular individual lessons with a retired school mistress in town. At the beginning it was 90% grammar in the lessons, but by the end almost half was conversation, with the teacher correcting me as we went along. I liked the one to one lessons as much as I preferred private ski lessons, geared 100% to your individual needs and a more efficient use of time. Private lessons are more expensive of course, but for me they are worth it if you can find the right person.

Aside from lessons though, as with many skills, learning French is best done by getting your hands dirty, attempting to speak it and write it as much as possible, and not hiding behind others to do it for you. The whole process of becoming a settled resident in France exposes you to a baptism of fire administratively, but you learn to read and understand French more quickly as you go through that. Having a house built, as we did, and dealing with contractors, the mairie, architects, etc all helps, and you insidiously become a bit better and confident month by month.

Sadly at my age I will likely never be fluent, and will continue to make the same foolish mistakes again and again, but if the processing time in my brain continues to come down and I can continue to feel more confident speaking half-decent French in a wide range of life and social situations, I will be more than happy!

[YCCMB]

I'm going to add something mildly controversial here. DD has made a very good point about the merits of 1:1 versus group lessons. However, and I do absolutely understand the economics of this...the "horses for courses" argument extends wider.

If you have little or no French (or any other language you might care to learn), there is some safety and comfort in group lessons, even if they may not always be tailored to your own needs. What they do mostly offer is a certain degree of security and professionalism because they generally (not always, I know) have the backing of an organisation or authority.

Like plumbers, electricians or builders, anyone can set themselves up as a language teacher, but it doesn't necessarily mean they're either qualified for it, or any good at it. That's fine if it's your next door neighbour helping you with the odd bit of conversation, but less fine if you're paying for a service. There are plenty of cheap teachers around. Just like there are plenty of cheap artisans. Cheap and good seldom go hand in hand. If you do contemplate private lessons, find someone with a track record at the very least. Even better, someone actually qualified. They are teaching you something you don't know, and because you don't know it, you don't know if what they are teaching you is valuable or not. Any private teacher worth their salt will meet with you with no obligation and evaluate your level, as well as discussing your needs and a plan of action.

OK, I confess, it's my job (or one of them) but for the record I don't need the work. :-)

[mint]

I have written about the advantages of class lessons in an earlier post.

Like Betty, but admittedly NOT with her depth and length of experience in teaching, I have also taught English to speakers of other languages (and yes, I do have a certificate and done a TESOL course at a reputable university)

I have taught courses to classes and also taught individual lessons.  As a teacher (and as a student), I much prefer the class situation.

I do understand about the courses for horses argument, but my counter argument is that a keen student will find plenty to get their teeth into from a class.

I have explained how I wanted to read books and how I have introduced books into my French class although the (present) teacher was not keen to begin with.

OK, I'm not over enthusiastic on grammar but I do understand its importance but I will NEVER let myself be bullied into learning lists of conjugaisons; however, as and when I have to learn an unusual verb, I WILL look it up and as the memory is still more or less OK, I WILL make sure I remember it and I WILL practise t until it becomes second nature.

Emphatic as I may sound, I LOVE the learning process so I am not taking for granted the slog it must be when you have to learn because you need to or feel you should.

[Daft Doctor]

I couldn't agree with you more yccmb, and I must stress again that my personal tutor was properly qualified, very experienced and came personally recommended, so was a good choice for me. She and I also had a very good rapport, which is vital when you know your brain is going to ache after an hour and a half of something completely alien!

I also agree that some people just prefer learning through the 'safety' and interaction of a group situation, so it is just a case of knowing what you'd prefer and then set about trying to find it.

[idun]

I only had a few group lessons, and the good thing about them is that 'I' knew some words that the others didn't, which made me feel like I was making a little progress, and they knew words I didn't, ie that was the first time I heard 'manifestation' at a group lesson, sort of an important word in french/France.

As you can gather, I had next to no lessons, and would look key words up in my dictionnary and write them down, often forgetting my 'note' and off I'd go, asking someone face to face, or even calling. And bit by bit I went from odd words to very loosely strung together sentences and chatting. I suppose that it would be nice to be able to speak without an accent and it be perfect, but that was never going to happen. And written french, well, I get by.

I am autonomous in France. Due to the literary class system, unless I want to impress, will just write.

Just communicating isn't it?  ...........I can talk to anyone, from a prince to a pauper, well not quite a prince, but nobility at least and paupers, as I know them too. I know very very  clever people and stupid people. I talk face to face, use the phone, sort out exactly what I need to and can talk and talk and talk, if I am in the mood. 

And I don't get upset when I make mistakes or sacré faux pas, which I find hilarious.