Clair, are you paying attention? Useful expressions!

[Chancer]

Great film, one of the first that I watched and really understood on French TV, I cant recall the scene but I am guessing that it was a phrae over-used by the little fonc (Danny Devito lookalike) and which the other guy used to mock him.

[Chancer]

Sweet17

The name of the film is the gathering that a group of rich parisiens have each month where they each invite a guest and the one that brings along the biggest con wins the prize!

[mint]

Oh my goodness, Chance, not exactly "Come dine with me" then?[:D]

[andrew44]

I'm a rare contributor, but I couldn't resist this one !

Juste means just or only plus other senses which are more difficult to understand.

It's a jeu de mots which the 'con' in question cannot understand ! It goes completely over his head !

Quote found if you google  'Diner de cons - script' on about Page 31 of the PDF file

The film stars some of the best comic and non-comic actors on French TV and cinema. This scene is between Thierry Lhermitte and the sadly late Jacques Villeret.

I suppose the joke itself is not very subtle, but the look on Jacques Villeret's face as he strains to understand is a joy to behold, plus Lhermitte's frustration... I'm sure it's on Youtube. Search 'Juste Leblanc'

I'll translate the jeu de mot bits as well as I can..

JV - C'est quoi son numéro ?           

TL - C'est le 47. 47..... Il s'appelle Juste Leblanc.             His name's Juste Leblanc     His name's only/just Leblanc

JV - (bemused) Il n'a pas de prénom ?                              No first name, then ?

TL - Juste ! C'est le prénom : Juste.                                  Juste ! Juste's his first name !

JV - Juste ? C'est pas fréquent comme prénom, je crois que je ne connais personne qui s'appelle..    Juste ?  Not a lot of those around....

TL - (cuts in) Ne perdons plus de temps, monsieur Pignon : Juste Leblanc.

I hope this helps and encourages you  to download and watch the film again. And again...

Andrew 44

[mint]

Oh, Andrew, you mean it's like one of those Remond Devos sketches?

Do you know "à Caen les vacances"?

Goes round in circles and makes you laugh [:D]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX7IeYrYdtk

[Chancer]

Yes lots of clips were on Youtube, thanks for the reminder, I enjoyed this one and will now watch some others.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=diner+de+cons+juste+leblanc&sm=1

Shame I didnt record the film as I would understand a lot more of it now as I realised watching the clip, back then the story sort of told itself thanks to the acting which makes it such a great film for those learning French.

[Chancer]

Clearly its been produced in the English language as "The dinner game" this trailer albeit in English explains the plot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvwRW9ohdW0

[Chancer]

As you were talking about sous-titrage then this one is for you Sweet17 and cerise sure le gateau he says your new phrase "j'en ai pour une minute" as well!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX55-ETYNn4

[Raza]

thanks for that clip, enjoyed it. Great film alright.

[andrew44]

Many thanks to Chancer, for researching the Youtube clips.

The film is extremely difficult to follow. I saw it first years ago, and understood not a word ! Not even the plot ! The dialogue is very fast, with few pauses to assimilate what one just heard.

Sub-titles are indispensable, I think, though some are rather approximate. Downloading and following the script is a bit laborious !

Sweet mentions comedian Raymond Devos, the king of the 'jeu de mots'. Well worth investigating.

I think Jacques Villeret is one the great French actors. Always perfect in his different roles, comic or serious.

You may like 'Un Crime au Paradis' with Josiane Balasko, but all his films are worth seeing..

@+

Andrew 44

[NormanH]

Why not look in the rich thread on French Cinema instead of inventing the wheel?

http://services.completefrance.com/forums/completefrance/cs/forums/1764030/ShowPost.aspx

[andrew44]

You are absolutely right of course, Norman.

Would you, or someone  else, like to do an Index of the 28 pages ?

The 'Diner de Con' just drifted into this thread via the variations in language and meaning of the word 'juste'.

@+

Andrew 44

[Chancer]

Andrew.

Its interesting that you found it so hard to follow and didnt even understand the plot, for me it was the opposite, my French was very weak then but the film was so visual I had no problem following and enjoying it, looking back maybe I had got to the stage where I could let the subconscious deal with all the unknown dialogue while the conscious concentrated on what I did understand, It is indeed a fast dialogue so perhaps had I seen it earlier I would have had the same experience as you.

I am very keen to see it again as I know I will get so much more from it this time round, rather like when I read my first French book, I chose a subject which captivated me to give me the endurance to continue with it, it took me 3 months and once I had finished it I immediately re-read it getting a lot more out of it the second time.

Like the film I should read the book again, the French version as it had been translated from English (Paddling the Pacific by Paul Théroux) I recall that reading the book was what gave me the declic to recognise and understand the past historic tense, initially they just looked like weird verbs, thereafter I could read and understand it without a second thought.

[mint]

Bonjour à tous [:)]

Ok, guys, I feel another question coming on....

Is there an expression that equates to "fits me like a glove"?

A literal translation would be "il me va comme un gant"...........hm..... not sure that I have ever heard a French person say that.

Would "il me va très bien" be enough?  Doesn't seem to convey the idea of "fits perfectly", does it?

Would you say "il me va parfaitement"?

Or is there an......er ....more fitting expression that you could use?

OTOH, I am now beginning to wonder why we say "fits like a glove"....after all a glove could fit just as poorly as any other item of clothing?

Over to the experts...... 

[NormanH]

I have certainly heard ' aller comme un gant' and some examples of the usage are here

http://www.languefrancaise.net/bob/detail.php?id=35319

I think 'ça me va comme un gant' is more usual but that is for the natives to judge...

[mint]

Ah, thank you, Norman.  Yes, ça sounds right.

Don't know why I don't use "ça" more often.  I use c'est a lot but ça not so much

[mint]

Can someone please tell me whether insister has the same force as the English insist?

I am, rightly or wrongly, making a comparision with demander which doesn't have the English connotation of DEMAND but merely means to ASK.

So, if a French person says j'insiste, are they just saying something like "I do wish" , "would you", or are they being really importunate with a touch of impatience into the bargain?

[NormanH]

I will leap into the breach again until a French person comes along.

I think it is much more similar to English 'insist' than 'Demander' is to 'demand'

It can mean  'emphasise' 'stress' 'impress upon' 'j'insiste sur ce point' 'I want to emphasise this point'.

so is a little less strong in these cases, as well as 'insist' in the sense of not backing down as in English.

It can also imply arguing as in 'Inutile d'insister' No point in arguing.

[Loiseau]

And if you are trying to clean a stubborn mark off the kitchen floor, "il faut insister" -which always rather amuses me.

But for your intended use, Sweets, I can't think of another better word at the moment. Hope Clair is along soon to put us all right...

Angela

[YCCMB]

I thought (I may be wrong) that you need to use "pour que" and the subjunctive with "insister" to make it the equivalent of "I insist" in the English context.

so, "J'insiste pour que tu viennes" - I insist that you come...or "J'insiste pour que vous m'ecoutiez" I insist that you listen to me.

But I could be quite mistaken.

I'm quite happy with "demander" just being to ask, and I find (although I have inordinate trouble saying it in the first person singular) that "exiger" is handy if you really want something stronger. But that's just my take on things.

[mint]

Thank you for your answers.

I love the stubborn mark on the kitchen floor example![:D]  Not too difficult to "insister" with my floor, as I just keep going over it with the steam mop several times, LOL.

Actually, the way it was written to me was "excusez moi d'insister....duh, duh, duh.." so it was as I suspected, just like the English "insist".

Nothing like so elegant as you have put it, Betty, but then we are not talking about anybody with either finesse or indeed  much education....[:-))]

Talking about elegant has reminded me that, for my own amusement, I have been making a list of all the adverbs with the 2 "ems" that you pronounce like femme:  so...élegemment, evidemment, puisemment, négligemment, etc.  Great fun as I love adverbs, the liberal use of which makes one sound so much more knowledgeable somehow, don't you think?[:D]

Edit:  got the spelling wrong so I don't think puissamment count on the list as it's not an "e" preceding the 2 "ems" but éminemment and ardemment would  

[YCCMB]

In the context you describe, Sweets, I'd certainly read it as "I'm sorry to go on about it" or something more along those lines..

[NormanH]

I think that Betty is right about the subjunctive making it the stronger version...

[mint]

Thank you for clarifying that, Betty and Norman.  Yes, I think I have understood the nuances in meaning now.

Well, I think I'd better let you off "teaching Sweet" French duty for a day or two.

Have a great Christmas,,,[:D]

[mint]

[quote user="5-element"]Yes you are right (both) about "en avoir pour........minutes/hours/days".
Yesterday someone asked me about the expression "avoir beau (faire quelque chose)" - he thought it was the same as "même si" - not quite, though.
For instance, if you say: "J'ai beau me lever tôt le matin, je n'arrive jamais à tout faire"
So it is "even though". It's a strange expression, I had never thought about it like this.
[/quote]

OK, guys, you've had your break from teaching Sweet French and I have so loved 5-e's phrase that I have used it a few times [:D]

So, here is a sentence from "Regain" by Jean Giono (the book having been recommended to me by none other than Gengulphus from this very Forum![:)])

On a beau partir plus tard de Manosque les jours où les pratiques font passer l'heure, quand on arrive à Vachères, c'est toujours midi

And here is the translation:

You may well leave Manosque later, on the days when the usual passengers keep the coach waiting - when you reach Vachères, it's always noon.

This occurs right at the beginning of the book and makes the point about the regularity of the coach, that it's always midday when it arrives at Vachères and then it goes on to develop a charming picture of all the passengers eating their lunch.

I think just this one sentence demonstrates the "art" of the translator:  it's so much more than a word for word translation; it takes into account the "sense" of what's being said.  This must surely persuade some that it's NOT at all necessarily to translate (or even to understand) every word in order to get a handle on what the text (or expression) is about.

However, what I love about où, as in the text, is that to my anglophone ears, it's very strange that où is always used for time.  So, c'est l'heure où on mange.

We'd say "when" but où, for me, is really very charming......

Any thoughts, anyone?