Charlie Hebdo and religion

[idun]

I am glad that Charlie Hebdo published the cartoons. Liberty and freedom of expression, yes, they have the right.

 

If all these gods that people believe in are so powerful, why don't 'they' the god, do something about these things, why do 'people' have to. The believers say it is blasphemy and in the name of their religion and blasphemy, 'people' have historically persecuted and done horrific things, to 'protect' their omnipotent gods. Which does not make sense to me.

 

I am angry at what I am listening to on french tv, certain groups saying that there should be no right to mock a religion.

 

So good for Charlie Hebdo, well done.

 

Incidentally, a piece of papyrus has been found and it says that Jesus speaks of his wife and that she should be a disciple. No surprise there then.

 

 

[woolybanana]

There is a long tradition of satirizing Islam so lets not worry. Problem is that nasty people are taking advantage of naive elements to stir the s hit. What happens in non Islamis countries is their business, so militants can scream but stay in their cages.

 

[5-element]

double post

[5-element]

For once, I disagree with you Idun. Yes, Charlie Hebdo have the right, freedom of expression and all that, there is no question.

But what they have done now, I see as senseless provocation, nothing more. Just doing it because the law says they can. It is not as if it achieves anything, to me it is saying "mine is bigger than yours, and here is the proof" without any regard for the consequences - not for themselves, but others, probably innocent, people. I am concerned that people may die because of this gratuitous act of defiance.

I am not saying we should be pandering to the vociferous islamists, far from it. But let's not pour fuel onto a fire, surely there are more intelligent, and less belligerent, ways of putting one's foot down?

I do think Charlie Hebdo has gone too far this time. Shocking just for the sake of it, and in such a crude, infantile way - sorry, but I am not impressed. That kind of provocation can hardly be constructive, with people sniggering on one side, while fuelling murderous intent on the other side.

[Bugsy]

I wonder if he will accept responsibility for the deaths that inevitability follow these sort of actions these days.

[nomoss]

I think it's just a matter of courtesy and good manners.

Some double standards kicking around here.

You can't say S**t on this forum even if you fall in it.

[Hoddy]

Although I m not religious myself I've never quite seen the point of deliberately offending those who are.

Hoddy

[YCCMB]

[quote user="Hoddy"]Although I m not religious myself I've never quite seen the point of deliberately offending those who are.

Hoddy[/quote]

+1

(although there are folk on other well known francophile forums who have raised doing so to an art form)[:D]

[idun]

Christian fundamentalists were demonstrating against something or other about a year ago in France.

I don't mind religious people demonstrating if they are not suited. Their right too. Take it further and they cross the line. Would that someone in their communities stands up and says that it doesn't matter.

 

 Just looking at the current riots and murderous rampages that have been going on, I'm not surprised that  Charlie Hebdo felt like using their freedom of the press.  What they did, is what they do, and long may they continue.

 

In fact the french press this last week, IMO, has been honorable, with the cartoons, and dishonorable with the paparazzi photos. Neither has killed. (Although, it could be argued that the paparazzi played more than their part in William's mother's death.) And if anyone is consequently killed then that is the shame of the lunatics who are commiting such acts. No one is making anyone commit atrocities, they are deciding to do that themselves.

And provoked, well, sometimes I feel provoked, but I don't go around damaging property and murdering people in cold blood. I don't rape or commit domestic violence either. When such acts are commited simply because someone is not suited and becomes enraged, it can never, in any society on this planet, be down to whoever has upset them. The perpetrators chose to commit these acts.

Still in the news there has been proper provocation recently, those japanese flying their flag on that disputed island. Now that is proper provocation.

 

My views may not be the same as other people's, but this is how I feel about it.

[Bugsy]

Yes but innocent people still end up dead.

Just a stupid thing to do in todays climate and done only to sell a few extra mags and provoke a response.

I don't BTW in any way condone those actions of a few fanatics but am wise enough to know what will happen.

Religion, you can keep it.

[Clarkkent]

I'm largely with Idun on this.

I respect the right of every person to hold whatever beliefs they wish. That respect does not extend, however, to the beliefs themselves. This does not mean that I would defame those beliefs but merely reflects that they are based on myth and cultural history, often with little supporting hard evidence and frequently highly irrational.

If it were possible, I would insert into the Human Rights Charter a clause stating that the concept of blasphemy has no place in a modern state. In much of the Islamic world, religion is used as a method of maintaining power over a subservient population. Much as it was when the Inquisition was used to keep Christians in order.

Any religion which cannot tolerate critical examination of itself is not worth the space it occupies. Nor is any religion which blackmails critical non-adherents into supine silence.

 

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Clarkkent"]

 In much of the Islamic world, religion is used as a method of maintaining power over a subservient population. Much as it was when the Inquisition was used to keep Christians in order.

Any religion which cannot tolerate critical examination of itself is not worth the space it occupies. Nor is any religion which blackmails critical non-adherents into supine silence.[/quote]

Better not mention Catholicism then [:P][:)]

[Patf]

Bugsy - [:D]

There was an article about this in yesterday's Depeche - they just printed the views of both sides and didn't really give an opinion.

But they published a C.H. cartoon of an orthodox Jew pushing Mohamed in a wheelchair, titled "Intouchables." Mohamed is saying "faut pas se moquer."

I bought a copy of C.H. once and couldn't make head nor tail of it - the political etc hints were too obscure for me.

[Gardener]

I agree that we have a right to free speech but not to deliberately hurt or provoke people, a robust exchange of ideas is one thing but to keep poking people with sharp stick is another.

It is only in recent years afaik that there has been these deliberate attempts to upset and offend Muslims which has been wrapped up in the dressing of freedom of speech.

It is obvious that the majority of Muslims (if offended at all) are not going on murderous rampages, but to many the reaction is evidence that Islam is barbaric etc etc. So I have to ask what purpose is being served by the actions of the cartoonists filmakers and what is their agenda?

[Frederick]

 What ever their agenda is . If these people who took to print  or film to stir things up in the Muslim ranks got the bill for the security measures that have to be put in place as a result. Their views may just change

[5-element]

It looks like the forum members are not the only ones to be divided on this issue:

http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/politique/20120921.OBS3209/charlie-hebdo-les-caricatures-divisent-les-politiques.html

[AnOther]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of producing and publishing what you must know is inflammatory material I think if it was me who had done it I'd be keeping a low profile and not having my photo plastered all over the web.

e.g. just one of dozens of different shots mostly with the material in question clearly in view.

[img]http://s2.jrnl.ie/media/2012/09/france-cartoon-protests-390x285.jpg[/img]

Not for the easily offended but the whole repertoire of cartoons, with English translations, can be found here.

There is also a very disturbing video clip.

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/cat_fatwa_this.php

[Gardener]

Or this one

http://rt.com/usa/news/advertisements-geller-america-york-609/

What an unpleasant woman she is.

[Alex H]

[quote user="Gardener"]Or this one

http://rt.com/usa/news/advertisements-geller-america-york-609/

What an unpleasant woman she is.[/quote]

Her entry on wikipedia makes 'interesting'? reading [blink] I'm surprised she's still alive.

[Alex H]

Egypt paper launches campaign against Prophet Muhammad cartoons

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19721654