Copyright

[Dick Smith]

It has been suggested to me that as all messages posted to this forum become copyright of Archant, therefore so do any photographs that members may post.

The question of ownership and copyright of photographs is not straightforward, but I would like to have my mind put at rest that Archant do not, in fact, claim copyright of any members' photographs, or any right to further reproduction for any purpose without the express permission of the copyright holder/photographer.

[Will]

You are probably fairly safe there Fluffy because images suitable for magazine printing would be far too large to use on a website. So the only possible danger is having your photograph lifted from here to be put on an Archant web site, and chances of them doing that are pretty minimal I would say. Nevertheless it would be nice to know for sure.

As you say, ownership of copyright is not straightforward, but the way the law works it tends to favour the originator rather than a publishing company - unless the image was specifically commissioned and there is a clause permitting use beyond the purpose for which the image was commissioned.

[Dick Smith]

I realise the limitations, although some images are more than screen resolution. I think that some of the images we have seen recently have been of fully professional standard, and I would like reassurance on that point.

[Clair]

I will email James and ask him to confirm Archant's position regarding copyright of pictures published by members on the forum.

[Clair]

[quote user="Will "]I am slightly worried now...So. Either we stop contributing information, experiences etc that the publishers could recycle in their magazines, and just concentrate on the Lounge-type topics. Or perhaps we should all have our own copyright clauses in our signatures.[/quote]

Will, by all means, feel free to amend your signature if it reassures you.

I'll update this post as soon as Admin gets back to me...

[Ex Forum Admin]

Hi,

Sorry I haven't responded sooner, I have a very busy workload at present. I have spoken to editorial and asked them about the use of the photos in print and they have said that they won't be using them within the magazines.

I could also say that I won't be using them for the website too, but if members want a gallery created with them in, then this may constitute using them? Or are you talking about editorial and photos within online articles?

James

 

[Will]

Thanks Clair [:D] But I, for one, won't do anything until we have heard from James (who I would guess is very busy at present). It all sounds like a bit of overkill to me.

[Jonzjob]

[quote user="Forum Admin"]

Hi,

Sorry I haven't responded sooner, I have a very busy workload at present. I have spoken to editorial and asked them about the use of the photos in print and they have said that they won't be using them within the magazines.

I could also say that I won't be using them for the website too, but if members want a gallery created with them in, then this may constitute using them? Or are you talking about editorial and photos within online articles?

James

 

[/quote]

For me it would be the use in online articles that would not be acceptable without first being asked at least. I think that is basic courtesy!

What do you mean by a 'gallery' James, a seperate site with the photos displayed within it?

[Russethouse]

Jonzjob - when this section was suggested by forum users ( Dick ? ) James (admin) pointed out that there is a gallery facility within the software, however, in the spirit of KISS and bearing in mind that many users find it easy enough to post using photo bucket, we opted for the current system.

I guess admin is referring to that.

On a personal note: I know many people are thrilled to have their contribution used in publications - I doubt that LF would keep using the same persons material time and time again without contacting them, and of course as Will has said many pictures that look superb on screen just look dreadful in print, as I know to my cost.

 

[WJT]

I really don't understand all the bother over this, seems a bit strange to me. If someone felt so protective over any photos they may have then perhaps it is not a good idea to share them with us here. I love this section, just hope all of this doesn't cause problems with it. I for one would feel honoured if LF wanted to use one of my photos. Before anyone says anything, I know that it would not be an issue.[:D]

By the way, I think it was Christine that came up with the idea and the one that enquired about it along with Gay.  Thanks Christine and Gay. [:)]

[Dick Smith]

No, it was me who raised the copyright issue, and it does not only include photographs.

The issue is an important one, as Will says, there are people here who make their living out of this sort of thing and at the moment the position as I understand it is out-of-line with other 'magazines' which may publish or host photographs or publish advice. Being posted onto a site like this does not make them public domain.

[Wilko]

Hi

In a previous life I was a professional photographer for some 30 years. The law of copyright was sorted out in the late 70's early 80's, it's too long ago to remember when exactly. The basic rule of thumb is that if you take the image then you own all rights to it unless you specifically sold them or part of them. By placing photos on this web site there is no way in which you are relinquishing your copyright, whatever the publisher says. The greatest problem today is the prevention of c/right abuse ie how do you know that someone has not copied your image from the i/net or a magazine and used it for their own purposes. In these cases all the photographer has to prove is that he has sustained a financial loss, it is up to the other party that to prove that they own c/right. Nowadays if you can find one of you images has been used, and you have not released c/right it can prove to be very profitable for the photographer.

I hope this goes some way to clarifying matters. To the best of my knowledge the present legislation is v. similar throughout the world.

Rgds Wilko

[Dick Smith]

Thanks for that. Do the same rights apply to intellectual property, to your knowledge?

[Christine Animal]

Intellectual property !  Do you think there's much of that on here ? !   [:P]

By the way, how can you prove you took the photo in the first place now there are no negatives ?

I, as usual, would rather agree with WJT.  Our photos, as far as I'm concerned, are just put on here for the pleasure.  However, if they were used, I would appreciate knowing about it and receiving a copy of the magazine.

 

[Dick Smith]

I'm sure you would!

However, some others aren't so laissez-faire - I wouldn't let my local paper use my photos without acknowledgement (though I'd have to be realistic about payment) and so I don't think it ought to be an option for Archant.

All we need is an undertaking that copyright in all written and pictorial work remains with the author and is not assigned to Archant by virtue of being posted to their forum.

[Russethouse]

Dick, Just out of interest do you actually buy Living France ? Or have you done so in the last year ?

[Dick Smith]

Not in the past year.

[Quillan]

Will has had a couple of his posts in the LF magazine over the last year or so, perhaps he can tell us if he was asked before the were published?

[Christine Animal]

Cassis had something put in without being informed.

How can you prove it was you who took a digital photo?

 

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Fluffy Kitten"]It seems as though a lot of that info is lost when the picture is stored in Photobucket.
[/quote]Not true with Flickr, Fluffy, all the info' is still available.

[Wilko]

Hi again

I know nothing of other areas of intellectual property.

I burn all images to CD, they are effectively my trans & negs. On the issue of usage

"you licence us and all Group Companies to use the information you provide on any medium and you waive your moral rights in respect of it."

this means that you permitt Archant the use of your image, but you still are the owner of the c/right.

"I speak from a point of experience of having commercial organisations taking pictures off my own website and then using them in their own publications without permission, and without asking me first."

I think you should have sent them an invoice, they would have paid out and quite rightly so. Generally speaking on c/right issues such as this it is far more cost effective for the company to settle out of court as damages can be punitive. It is quite common for the court to award damages on the volume of usage eg print run of company brochure.....10,000 copies.........award £1 per copy.....

Hope this helps

rgds Wilko

 

[Quillan]

Getting the changes that have been suggested will take some time to be discussed by Archant because whilst they may seem simple and logical to those concerned forum members Archant will have to check the implications from their perspective. I would think that this question will be quite far down the Archant legal departments list at present. When there is a reply I am sure Forum Admin will let us know as quickly as possible. Do bear in mind it could take weeks to get an answer and they may not give the answer you all expect.

Personally I agree with Will and the chances of your photos actually being published are minute if not zero. However if you are concerned I would suggest that you do as TP and remove your pictures.

Having said that I have looked at the Photobucket website which seem to be the more common place for people using our forum to store their photo’s and I would suggest that you read their term and conditions at to what exactly your rights are once you have stored your photo there and what they are entitled to do with it. You should also be aware that at no time is your photo stored on the Archant servers and you should think of the implications of that alone. I have conducted a test for my personal interest and can confirm that that by right clicking you can appear to ‘save’ a photo from the forum although in the ‘Properties’ it does say that it is located on the Photobucket website and not here.

So to my mind anyone can go to the Photobucket website and download your photo’s either directly or indirectly (if you have put a link to them on another website like ours) so really TP you should delete them from Photobucket to be safe or alternatively take up your real issues with them for allowing people the opportunity to do this in the first place and not protecting your rights.

I am still waiting to hear from Will or anyone else first hand if they have had their posts printed in the LF magazine and if their approval was sought. I can but make only two suggestions if it causes you concern, don’t post (OK that’s the obvious one) or email the LF editor with a very simple email giving your email address, user name and a simple sentence like “If you wish to copy any of my forum content in to your magazine please contact me for my approval”. Nice and simple and to the point, wouldn’t go much further than that as they won’t have time to read it.

Perhaps those that partitioned for the photography section should have asked all these questions about photos and copyright at the time if they were truly concerned.

[Ex Forum Admin]

As I said, we won't be using photos from the forum for the magazine. I did suggest an online gallery for member's photos but it was decided by members of the forum that a section devoted to photos would be easier and the photos can be discussed....which is what we have now. Quillan is correct, the images are not hosted on our servers they are 'hotlinked' from whatever server you put them to host.

 

James 

 

[Christine Animal]

In fact, anyone in the whole wide world can copy them and use them.

 

[Russethouse]

I wonder if our technical bods(that contribute here) knows anything about  a program that puts a 'watermark' on the pics which effectively stops that ?

I'm sure I have seen something similar used by eBay sellers.

On the other hand this section is popular and gives a lot of pleasure, as far as print is concerned I suspect the chances of having the picture used are tiny, the only other possibility is someone using it on their web site.......yes it happens, but often enough for any one here to worry about ?

I think all the contributors to this section have to calculate whether the pleasure the section definitely gives them is worth the possible risk of some one else using a picture.