LED bulbs

[confused of chalus]

Can you just swap a LED bulb for the equivalent ended lightbulb?

The ones we have seen look just like an ordinary bulb. But do you have to have a transformer on the lamp like there is on new installations?

[602]

LED bulbs are available in 230 volts and 12 volts [needing a transformer]

I have just changed all the 230 volt 50w spot light bulbs [GU10 type] in our kitchen for LED's. They run cold and use next to no electric

[Chancer]

I am going to stick with my gas lights, they use no electric at all and heat the kitchen [:P]

[Théière]

[quote user="602"]LED bulbs are available in 230 volts and 12 volts [needing a transformer] [/quote]

Or preferably an LED driver (constant voltage) better for LED's. When a halogen 12v transformer is used for low wattage as in LED's the output voltage can drift towards 13.5v (the instant death point of an LED) You could keep one halogen lamp in the circuit to add load but that kind of undoes the whole point.

Like 602, I have just changed some MR16 down lighters for the latest 4w high power (4x1w) lamps and the light output is better than the 20w halogens they are replacing and closer to 35w halogens (I don't have any 50w to test against).

The conventional bulb looking ones may disappoint as you get a directional light not 270-360 deg that you are used to, however the situation is improving, I have some candle bulbs (3w LED [ 3x 1w] ) which are almost as bright as 40w candle bulbs and certainly brighter than 25w. The "corn on the cob" lamps are currently the best replacement for conventional bulbs.

[daza]

You can get LED bulbs that have bayonet or screw fittings so no need for transformers.

[Nell]

Without getting into watts and volts and all that stuff (That is the OH's job!!). He bought 8 of these things to replace the 8 halogens in the kitchen and all I can say is "not good". They may save electric, but the light was grey and flat, not at all like the lovely warm light you get from those little GU10's.

[Théière]

Although the post above yours Nell is just advertising and should therefore be removed.

It is a shame when peoples first experience of using LED's is the poor result you are now experiencing.  The ones on sale in french bricos are generally the poor quality early ones. The later ones are so much better. Unfortunately it will be quite a while until the new generation of LED's make it into the shops and when they are heaven only knows the price they will be which seriously defeats the object. 

[sid]

I'm trying to replace bulbs with more eco-friendly and economical alternatives but it's not easy!

Most of our table lamps now have replacement bulbs, and although they don't light up at full strength immediately it's not the problem that it would be on a staircase for example.

In the kitchen we have 2 fittings each with 4x50W GU10 halogen bulbs, so that's 400W. As these 50W bulbs are near impossible to find now I've decided to get LEDs. I got a single 50W equivalent from Castorama a few weeks ago; it was 12€ !!!!! The light is good and it comes on full strength immediately, but it's heavier than the old bulb and puts a strain on the fitting and I'm pretty sure I'll never recoup the cost, especially if I buy the other 7 !!

I'd like to re-do the kitchen ceiling at some point in the not too distant future, and fit new flush spotlights, downlighters, but there seems to be little choice in the stores and all expensive too, especially when you can buy a pack of 3 spots complete with old-style GU10 bulbs for 10€. Hardly encouraging.

[suein56]

[quote user="sid"]In the kitchen we have 2 fittings each with 4x50W GU10 halogen bulbs ... As these 50W bulbs are near impossible to find now ... [/quote]

My friend has just bought a pack of 3 from LeRoy Merlin for 14€90. Then I saw the same bulbs in a pack of 2 in our local SuperU for 8€02 and in Casino too, but I cannot remember how much they were there. They seem to be everywhere here.

Edit : Amazon.fr do them too ... in packs of 5 or 10.

Amazon

Sue

[sid]

Thanks Sue, I'll look in Leroy next time I'm in Angouleme.

Those 50W GU10s used to be around 4€ for 3 not so long ago in BricoDepot, but they're being phased out now. I think you can still get cheap packs in UK, but I'm thinking that I'll be forced to change the light fittings in the not too distant future.

The labelling on LEDs is confusing as they often don't say (in terms I understand) how bright the light will be. 

[Théière]

Cost of 8 halogens to start with (assuming 3 €10)  26.66

400w for 2hours /day =800w  x €0.13/kw = €0.104/day x 365 days = €37.96 /year

replacement lamps at 2years €20 and again in 2 years €20

total cost at 6years €294.42  (not including going out to buy new lamps or increase in electricity prices)

 

Cost of 8 LED's to start with €96

40w for 2 hours/day =80w x €.13/kw = €0.0104 x 365 = €3.796 /year

No replacement lamps for 6 years (most Led's would last 30,000 hours but assume these are poor quality and last 10,000 hours that's still 12 years)

Total cost at 6 years €118.77

Led saving over halogen  €175.65 

[Russethouse]

Two (out of 15) of our LED bulbs only lasted 18 months....[:(]

[Théière]

Return them for exchange,  I have said it before the ones on sale in French shops are the poorest quality for the highest price.  I import and supply them commercially and have 3 failed out of  115 ish supplied.

Not wishing to sound smug, I have also bought quite a number of rubbish ones over the years before getting to reliable companies now.

[sid]

Théière, I can see the theoretical savings but it hasn't worked out like that in reality. The hallway in our house extension has 8 flush spot fittings each with a 50W GU10 and so far, in just over six years I've replaced 2 bulbs.

The ones which fail most frequently are in the kitchen and I assume this is because they get switched on and off much more frequently (?).

I think the solution is to go for fitting designed to take LEDs, rather than GU10s. 

I look round the lighting departments each time we visit the big stores and I come away disappointed with the lack of choice. Plenty of "mood" lighting, but not much "proper" light. In the kitchen we want strong light, not little blue things round the plinths and under cupboards.

I'll probably finish up installing a good old fluorescent tube, so hated on designer programmes! [:)]

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Théière"]

Return them for exchange,  I have said it before the ones on sale in French shops are the poorest quality for the highest price.  I import and supply them commercially and have 3 failed out of  115 ish supplied.

Not wishing to sound smug, I have also bought quite a number of rubbish ones over the years before getting to reliable companies now.

[/quote]

Our electrician supplied them, when he has to come for something else 'll mention it...

They were a challenge to replace as they had a two round prong fitting rather than the bolt end ( sorry, not very technical) they are aurora IIRC

To begin with we found the light quite yellow but we are used to it now....

[PaulT]

Perhaps peoples main concern when buying is how much the fitting costs and they do not take in to account running costs at the time. Once installed they just pay the electric bill and there is no itemising.

LEDs are definitely falling in price. I put 5m strips under and above our kitchen units in the UK. I then bought some for France and the cost had dropped considerably and when I bought more it had dropped again.

In the automobile world they are being used. Headlamps are very expensive at the moment but sooner or later the cost will be economic.

[Chancer]

[quote user="PaulT"]

 

LEDs are definitely falling in price.

In the automobile world they are being used. Headlamps are very expensive at the moment but sooner or later the cost will be economic.[/quote]

Dont count on it, yes they are definitely dropping in price and the auto companies would not fit them if they cost more or cannot make the saving elsewhere on the vehicle, car prices have remained relatively static or even dropped yet the equipment level continues to rise. They will however completely shaft you for replacement parts especially in France where they have a monopoly on carroserie or anything related including headlamps, in truth the cost of spares is what allows them to keep the price of the vehicles down.

Dont expect them ever to drop the price of LED headlamps and even the pattern parts will be sold at a premium as they will still appear cheap compared to the manufacturers price.

There was a time when due to vehicle purchase tax you could buy all the spare parts and assemble your own vehicle cheaper than a new one, loads of people built Morris Minors this way, it shows that back then the cost of spare parts was reasonable, were you to do the calculation now, and with their computers all the manufacturers could easily provide the figures, the cost of parts would be several thousand times the cost of a vehicle.

I can see why the journalists dont push this issue, too busy getting freebies from the industry but its a shame that they cant be forced to provide the figures under the freedom of information act.

[PaulT]

[quote user="Chancer"][quote user="PaulT"]

 

LEDs are definitely falling in price.

In the automobile world they are being used. Headlamps are very expensive at the moment but sooner or later the cost will be economic.[/quote]

Dont count on it, yes they are definitely dropping in price and the auto companies would not fit them if they cost more or cannot make the saving elsewhere on the vehicle, car prices have remained relatively static or even dropped yet the equipment level continues to rise. They will however completely shaft you for replacement parts especially in France where they have a monopoly on carroserie or anything related including headlamps, in truth the cost of spares is what allows them to keep the price of the vehicles down.

Dont expect them ever to drop the price of LED headlamps and even the pattern parts will be sold at a premium as they will still appear cheap compared to the manufacturers price.

There was a time when due to vehicle purchase tax you could buy all the spare parts and assemble your own vehicle cheaper than a new one, loads of people built Morris Minors this way, it shows that back then the cost of spare parts was reasonable, were you to do the calculation now, and with their computers all the manufacturers could easily provide the figures, the cost of parts would be several thousand times the cost of a vehicle.

I can see why the journalists dont push this issue, too busy getting freebies from the industry but its a shame that they cant be forced to provide the figures under the freedom of information act.

[/quote]

Ah but the parts on your Moggie Minor soon wore out - the joys of king pin replacement and lever arm shocks.

Last year I sold my 2001 Rover 75 with 240,000 miles on it (to my BIL and he is flogging it around the M25 each day). I replaced the two front suspension bushes, suspension arms (only way to replace the ball joints and a couple of tie bars). The clutch was changed at 73,000 and is still going strong. In addition, such things as brake pads, oil etc.

Now very little was made from me on parts and the suspension arms were pattern parts at about £55 each.

Oh, the replacement - a 2004 Rover 75 with 46,000 miles.

[Chancer]

I totally agree, when I think of the repairs that I used to have to do, now cars are often scrapped the first time that the exhaust needs replacing, when I saw the photos of the cars lined up for the crusher boh sides of the channel during the scrappage schemes it made my blood boil, they were nearly all far newer than my vehicle and that has many years left in it.

The night before moving to France in 2005 I took my chauffeur friends Skoda off his hands, the wost time in some respects because I had unload my Alhambra and squeeze the contents into the much smaller Skoda, within a week the clutch failed in a dramatic and as I had no electricity or running water I had more important things to do, a friendly local garagiste offered to do the job for €120 plus the parts, oh how that was the first of many painfull lessons on the people around here, after 2 weeks of cycling to the public toilets in town and to Macdonalds to wash (the public baths had only closed the year before) I finally got the car back after being shafted for €1500 which he insisted on being in cash [:(]

I then thought what sort of a pup have I bought myself, granted she was quite new at exactly 3 years and cheap due to her 188000 miles and in showroom condition but the clutch was a real body blow but it taught me a lot about the folks around here and strengthened my resolve, I had never in my life before paid for work to be done on my cars and will never again.

The car turned out to be the best investment that I have ever made, I have now done a further 100000 miles over 8 years (288000 now on the clock) and she looks like she will do the same again apart from an oil and filter change every 18 months I have replaced one diesel filter, one air filter, brake pads and one steering rack arm (£5 from a breakers) the cambelt at 250000 which turned out to be the original, no tensioners or pulleys just the belt which only cost £8, a few weeks ago I finally had to replace the original battery. I replaced all the discs when one cracked, have gone through 1 set of second hand tyres and the exhaust is still the original one.

Apart from being shafted on the clutch I reckon that I have spent around £500 on repairs and servicing over 8 years and that includes the tyres, I thought initially that if I got a couple of years out of the car I would be happy, I am fairly confident that I will get 10 years.

Not much to do with LED bulbs mind you but to agree that the manufacturers dont make money out of some of us on parts, I dont think that I have spent a penny with them, now there are several of my vehicle in the scrapyard all in perfectly serviceable condition so I replaced my tired front and suspension and shock absorbers, they had only just passed a CT but the new ones have transforemd the ride, for £60 it was a good investment.

I forgot to say that it took me a long time to put right all the things that the garagiste had bodged up, the anti roll bar not connected manifested itself on the first roundabout others like having severed the cooling fan wiring came back to bite me in the bum, the fault which caused the initial clutch failure a leak from the slave cylinder union had not even been fixed despite charging me €200 + labour for a €30 cylinder that wasnt even required.

[sid]

Totally agree about the car parts, and the bodywork and rust, how that's changed!

However, back to the LED topic. Following Théière's summary earlier I thought I should really do some more investigation as we're going to update the kitchen, and the ceiling in particular, soon.  We were in Angouleme yesterday so I called into Leroy Merlin; I like this store generally. The choice of bulbs is now very baffling; they don't label them all in the same way, making comparison difficult, so you get a GU10 50W, which is exactly what it says, it consumes 50W and gives out 50W of light as we all used to understand. But now some items say 15W (45W) to indicate a difference between consumption and perceived light, and then others have a figure of say 600, being lumens, but not necessarily showing what the consumption is.  I spent about half an hour in the one aisle trying to get a proper comparison, and I can tell you that I wasn't the only person doing this. Our preference is for "spots encastrées" simply for neatness, but the prices for eco products are ridiculous, 46€ each in some cases. Our original spots were about 12é for 3 complete with bulbs! We currently have 8 lamps x 50W, so I know it's a figure I should be looking at reducing, but I want the same light, not some dim 0.2W LEDs which they also had in packs of 10; I think these are just mood lights, but the packet doesn't give any information. I finished upwith a headache and bought a pack of 3 x GU10 50W bulbs to go into the replacement box at home, cost 4,59€.  I'll have to pluck up courage to look at lighting again another time! [:-))]