Buying a building plot

[Pommier]

On Friday I'll be signing the Compromis de Vente for a building plot. The vendor has told me that the plot has a CU, and it'll be a suspensive clause that it is valid. Is there anything else I should confirm before signing? It's a plot between two other houses and has the electric box on the front boundary next to the pavement.

Any advice please?

[woolybanana]

Main drains? Any rights of way or claims on the land? Any mortgages or debts attached? Limitations on what you can build?

[idun]

What Wooly said. Water, electricity, drains, phone lines. Some of these things can cost a lot to get branched.

 

When we bought our plot we found later that there were many access problems, only the notaire didn't mention them, just the clause about not having a washing line at the front of the property,which all my neighbours ignored. And he mentioned that bit at least 5 times.

So you need to ask all the questions, even ones that sound daft, some things they'll expect you to know and wouldn't think of telling you. Basically, they don't know what you don't know, do they?

[woolybanana]

Maybe you need to know what plans there might be for the adjoining plots and for the area generally. For example, is there permission to pull down the house next door and build something bigger, or a massive extension, which might ruin your enjoyment of your land and eventual house.

[mint]

There are all the considerations that Wooly and Idun have mentioned.

For me, the two biggies, amongst others, are these:

Can you have access to your property without crossing others' and without having special access rights granted by others

Can you drain the property (very important if the property is not on mains drainage and there is now all the highlight on conforming fosses). 

This second consideration might not be as simple as it sounds.  Pachapapa will bear me out on this one.  There are very "esoteric" stuff like, is the fall sufficient, is there enough land to fulfil all the requirements about distances from houses, boundaries, trees, etc etc etc.  Nearly did my head in looking at this when househunting.  Fortunately, I had Pacha doing a lot of the research for me and sending me PMs and emails to make sure I didn't just give it all up as a very bad idea.

Good Luck, Pommier!  Let us know how you get on, eh?  

[suein56]

[quote user="sweet 17"]There are all the considerations that Wooly and Idun have mentioned.[/quote]

My plus :Beware of planning law changes.

A newly built house for sale which OH and I viewed did not have a garage and, when asked if it was possible to build one, the owners replied that it was not. Apparently the rules regarding width of an access driveway had changed between the time the plot had been bought and the planning permission given for the house. With the consequence that there was not enough room in the right place for a garage and access. So they had an abri de jardin built instead.

Sue

[Pommier]

Gosh, quite a few things there! It's a very nice level plot of 616 metres, just slightly higher than the road so I'd have thought (hope!) that falls for drains etc won't be a problem. The houses around it are recently built and well spaced. The houses to the left and right have built on the right boundary, so if we do the same everybody stays well detached. The road frontage is 19 metres so as one of the two designs we're considering is overall 12.9 metres including the garage surely (??) that'd be ok with the planners?

I've been thinking about €3.000 for connections to services; some builders are saying that it won't be that much as the plot is 'viabilisée', but would those of you who have had a new build think that was about right? The town is on mains drainage.

I'll write a list of questions to put to the notaire (we're having a different one to the seller) and find out if any clauses suspensive are needed.

I don't suppose anyone has heard anything of our two 'favourites' for the build, Milcendeau and CABCL, but if you have, please tell me!

Many thanks.

PS just to add that there's no access problem as it fronts onto a road and it's walled on all sides (well, three of them!)

[idun]

And no one has access to get to the land behind your plot?

 

Have you googled these building companies? Hopefully there will be comments about them, good and bad.

 

Before we had our house built by Le Clair Logis, they insisted that they take us round their builds, houses being constructed and those just finished as well as their show home. Everything to make us feel happy enough to use them.

 

[idun]

Another question, if you need a mortgage, then you don't start paying the mortgage until the house is built, but interest on the amounts they dish out during the construction. And if you knew this, then maybe others who are planning a build with a mortgage didn't;

[pachapapa]

Check that the cahier de charges du lotissement and le réglement du lotissement contain no surprises that may constrain your project.

[mint]

Pommier, I am well aware that you have moved house at least a couple of times before and that you will be courant with the usual stuff.

Not a bad idea to have a list of questions for the notaire.  As we, who have lived here a while know, you need to ask or you won't get the answers!

This sounds a very exciting project, Pommier.  When you have acquired the land, etc, I hope you'll keep us dated as I, for one, will find your posts on this topic of much interest.

[woolybanana]

Just look round the gardens of the neighbours and see what they are like; bad signs are scrap metal, old cars etc

[Pommier]

Yes, Sweet17 we are serial house movers and France is probably not the best country to have that as a hobby, but we are staying longer in each house lately!

The cahier de charges du lotissement and le réglement du lotissement are as far as I can gather restrictions on what can or can't be done within a lotissement for the first 10 years after it's been divided up - have I got that right? Looking at other houses around, I'd have thought it was laid out about 10 years ago, but I'll ask if there are any restrictions that come with the plot. Would that suffice to cover that question?

The houses behind the plot have their own accesses via a private impasse from the main road beyond them, so no worries there, and the houses which are either side and all around are quite up-market and smart - unlike another plot we viewed which looked ok until we walked down it only to set off the pack of at least 8 big dogs at the next door house, which we then saw had at least three market trailors parked in it's yard - swift walk away from that!

I've found an interesting forum http://www.forumconstruire.com/construire/ which has given us a few ideas, and in the next week or so we'll make a choice of builder. I've looked on the net and found general praise for Milcendeau (and spoken to someone who's recently had a house built by them). The other company CABCL I'd almost decided against as I was so impressed with Milcendeau (with an adaptation of one of their standard designs), but when we spoke to CABCL they suggested that they could do a personalied design incorporating everything we want, up to BBC standard and within our maximum budget. Milcendeau only use employees, not sub contractors, CABCL is a co-operative of local artisans building only in this area.

That's interesting re mortgages Idun - I wondered how people managed to fund a build whilst still living elsewhere.  

[idun]

If I know so much about France, I have had hard lessons, very hard sometimes.

 

The BNP did not do their job properly IMO and cost us at least an extra 6000ff (£600 a lot then) during the build in interest in 1983. Simply as they couldn't be bothered to pay the builder the final amount for months, made us pay interest instead and then we still had to pay the mortgage.

 

 

How did we manage, badly actually for quite a few years. We had left cheap England for expensive France back then.

 

 

ps, yes living else where, we rented an appt. I would have not wanted to live on our little estate of five homes, if anyone had lived in a caravan during the construction, and no one did. Interest rates were very high then too.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Pommier"]

Yes, Sweet17 we are serial house movers and France is probably not the best country to have that as a hobby, but we are staying longer in each house lately!

The cahier de charges du lotissement and le réglement du lotissement are as far as I can gather restrictions on what can or can't be done within a lotissement for the first 10 years after it's been divided up - have I got that right? Looking at other houses around, I'd have thought it was laid out about 10 years ago, but I'll ask if there are any restrictions that come with the plot. Would that suffice to cover that question?

The houses behind the plot have their own accesses via a private impasse from the main road beyond them, so no worries there, and the houses which are either side and all around are quite up-market and smart - unlike another plot we viewed which looked ok until we walked down it only to set off the pack of at least 8 big dogs at the next door house, which we then saw had at least three market trailors parked in it's yard - swift walk away from that!

I've found an interesting forum http://www.forumconstruire.com/construire/ which has given us a few ideas, and in the next week or so we'll make a choice of builder. I've looked on the net and found general praise for Milcendeau (and spoken to someone who's recently had a house built by them). The other company CABCL I'd almost decided against as I was so impressed with Milcendeau (with an adaptation of one of their standard designs), but when we spoke to CABCL they suggested that they could do a personalied design incorporating everything we want, up to BBC standard and within our maximum budget. Milcendeau only use employees, not sub contractors, CABCL is a co-operative of local artisans building only in this area.

That's interesting re mortgages Idun - I wondered how people managed to fund a build whilst still living elsewhere.  

[/quote]

The 10 year period affects the reversion to the Code d'urbanisme not things like washing lines.

you might like to peruse the link below which is an answer given to a written question as to cahier et règlement and in particular the duration.

http://www.senat.fr/questions/base/2008/qSEQ080604855.html

[Pommier]

Signed the Compromis for the land on Friday, so it's on with selecting a builder.

The lotissement was divided up in 2002 and there are just a small number of undeveloped plots on it. Soon be one less!

[mint]

Congratulations, Pommier!

Do describe the process for us here from time to time, won't you?

[Daft Doctor]

Hi, just wondered if Pommier would share with us the quoted build cost per square metre including TVA?  I'm sure it will vary a bit according to the which area of France is involved, but as I would dearly love to acquire a suitable plot and have a chalet built as an eventual permanent home, just wondered if prices have softened a bit and builders are prepared to discount to get the work? 

[Théière]

[quote user="Daft Doctor"]just wondered if prices have softened a bit and builders are prepared to discount to get the work? [/quote]

Just as doctors do?

[suein56]

[quote user="Daft Doctor"]... just wondered if prices have softened a bit and builders are prepared to discount to get the work? [/quote]

LOL; what a super idea but then perhaps no ... this is France after all.

Sue [:)]

[Daft Doctor]

Theiere, I'm not sure of your point, I'm not competing for work (it comes to me in bucketloads as a matter of course) but builders might well be?  Sue56, I realise my comment was more wishful thinking than expectation, but hey ho!  Seriously, I just wonder if anyone has an idea of current build costs in France?  The last hard number I saw relating to build costs in the Alps was from 2007/08 and it was 2,250 euros HT per square metre.  Was intrigued to know if anyone knew if it had changed much. 

[tinabee]

[quote user="Daft Doctor"]Theiere, I'm not sure of your point, I'm not competing for work (it comes to me in bucketloads as a matter of course) but builders might well be?  Sue56, I realise my comment was more wishful thinking than expectation, but hey ho!  Seriously, I just wonder if anyone has an idea of current build costs in France?  The last hard number I saw relating to build costs in the Alps was from 2007/08 and it was 2,250 euros HT per square metre.  Was intrigued to know if anyone knew if it had changed much. [/quote]

Here in Basse Normandie you can get a house built for just over 1000 euros TTC per sq m

[LEO]

[quote user="Pommier"]

Signed the Compromis for the land on Friday, so it's on with selecting a builder.

The lotissement was divided up in 2002 and there are just a small number of undeveloped plots on it. Soon be one less!

[/quote]

This could possibly  be the biggest financial mistake you have ever made.

[Pommier]

Yes, it's true that it could be a mistake, but we tend to be risk takers (although calculated risks only!). I certainly wouldn't have considered the project if we were in a rural backwater. As it is, I believe we'll end up with a house which suits us, is economical to run and worth more than the cost of the plot plus construction.

Do you really feel so pessimistic about the future of France?

Daft Doctor, to answer your questions, we're looking at €1300 to €1400 per metre to build; that is to BBC standard (Batiment Basse Consumption) which I think is worth the extra with the way fuel costs are going! Build costs will I suppose vary depending on local conditions.  Builders are definately open to a bit of bartering, although in this area they have plenty of work so it's more by way of confirming to them that what you say is the budget, really is the budget. I've found a useful French building forum which I'll pass you details of if you wish.

We're still seeking out the best design at the right price although we're getting closer!

[Pommier]

I'm returning to this subject now that the house is almost completed. We eventually chose CABCL to build the house. They are a co-operative of local artisans who have designed and built the house to the budget we wanted and have made a lovely job of it. Here's a link (very boring I'm afraid, as it shows every last detail) http://s1138.photobucket.com/albums/n523/cherylfrenchphotos/Our%20new%20house/