Lehaut Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Have been helping out a friend whose holiday home was burgled. They knew what they were after and where the stuff was stored. Ride on tractor, strimmer, petrol, electrical extension cables and even ear protectors. The building was secured with a hasp and padlock, which the thieves removed. Having had today, the last meeting with the insurance agent and the expert assessor, they said that, as far as French house insurance was concerned, a padlock was virtually the same as an open door, only a "serrure" was acceptable. He showed me the wording the in AXA house contract which states this (as he said all French house insurance contracts do). The assessor said that this was a common problem with Brits who expected the padlock to be treated as a form of outbuilding security. So no payout. I waived goodbye to the agent in his BMW 5 series 4x4 and the assessor in his Mercedes SL 350 and thought at least our friends premiums are being put to good use.I was not aware of the Padlock rule, others may also be unaware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommier Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 We'd heard this some years ago and asked the insurance company if the very cheap locks with a knob on the inside and keyhole outside are OK (don't know the proper name for them, but they're about €3 each and not very strong). The insurance said that those were fine - no problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fittersmate Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 We asked our insurance agent how to secure our barn and shed doors two of which which are sliding corrugated iron on a timber planked barn and they said we had to use the aforementioned silly surface mount lock-How? On a sliding barn door? Perhaps a serious hardened Squire padlock and hasp to keep the burglars out and a silly french tinplate door lock to keep the insurance happy!The third set of double doors are hinged and 3 metres high by 3 metres wide- ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lehaut Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 I have the same problem with a sliding barn door. You can get locks with hooked locking parts which drop down into the fixed plate on the wall. 12.50 from Leroy Merlin. Next problem is how to fit it! Hopefully someone else will have a better solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I have this problem too. My garage is an old barn with a large sliding door. I havent measured it, but it must be over 3 meters high and easily 4 meters long. The door itself is a steel frame clad in metal sheeting...not corrugated iron, but the squarer profile used on more modern buildings, whatever you call that.Currently it is secured with a good quality padlock, but I am well aware that this wont keep the insurers happy. They want whatever lock that is used to be flush or recessed, not on the outside like a padlock and hasp.This sort of thing is easily available....[img]http://www.norfolkmarine.co.uk/shop-online/images/6180142m.jpg[/img]I got one from BricoDepot which is the same size as a standard door latch. It also has a solid pin that sticks out under the latch that goes into a hole on the plate which should prevent the door being lifted up....There is easily enough free play in most rollers to lift the door an inch or so to unhoock these latches.Next problem is that the door does not butt up against the frame, but rather sits on the outside of the opening and just has a wee steel bar to stop its movement, so I will either have to cut a hole in the door cladding and build up a steel frame on the inside that this latch fits into and butts up against the door post when the door is closed (however, this will stop the door being opened to its full width as it will foul the door post on the other side) or build up some kind of frame on the outside of the door post to fit the plate to. Neither solution appeals to me very much, and I would think that anyone with a crowbar would be able to force it within a few seconds.So basically, I have to make the garage LESS secure to get insurance cover. Farce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fittersmate Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 MOH says that most of the lock hardware sold in France is flimsy rubbish and has found this in the UK.http://www.barrier-components.co.uk/locks-and-security/gate-locks/sliding-gate-lock-351.htmlHe's mumbling about "where can I get steel plate and some more welding rods from" so will await developments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Department71 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 [quote user="Lehaut"]Have been helping out a friend whose holiday home was burgled. They knew what they were after and where the stuff was stored. Ride on tractor, strimmer, petrol, electrical extension cables and even ear protectors. The building was secured with a hasp and padlock, which the thieves removed. Having had today, the last meeting with the insurance agent and the expert assessor, they said that, as far as French house insurance was concerned, a padlock was virtually the same as an open door, only a "serrure" was acceptable. He showed me the wording the in AXA house contract which states this (as he said all French house insurance contracts do). The assessor said that this was a common problem with Brits who expected the padlock to be treated as a form of outbuilding security. So no payout. I waived goodbye to the agent in his BMW 5 series 4x4 and the assessor in his Mercedes SL 350 and thought at least our friends premiums are being put to good use.I was not aware of the Padlock rule, others may also be unaware.[/quote]We had the very same problem when visitors decided they also wanted our sit on mower plus all my electrical tools two new bikes, chain saw the list could go on. The assessor came and he informed us the padlock we had on the door was unacceptable and they wanted a proper lock with a key built into the door, another little gem he told us the sit on mower does not come under the house insurance for theft, you have to insure that separately. The padlock was actually cut in half by the visitors, they must have used big bolt cutters as it wasn't a little padlock. Anyway after a long discusion with the assessor we actually got some money back, the stuff we were insured for he took off a small percent because of the lock problem, the sit on mower, we got nothing, it is now insured on its own.EDIT. I think I did write about this on an old post but can't find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Can't one have both a lock and key and good quality padlocks. As long as the insurance company is happy with the lock and key, surely they would not object IF there was more security than that?Or am I being naieve?At the moment I am looking into the way english insurers deal with the way doors lock and possible claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ventodue Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Am I the only one to be surprised that anyone would think that a hasp and staple + padlock was adequate security, be it in France, the UK or anywhere else ...? AND this in a property that isn't permanently occupied? J'hallucine ...Why should any insurance company compensate for the failure of someone to properly secure their possessions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Department71 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 [quote user="idun"]Can't one have both a lock and key and good quality padlocks. As long as the insurance company is happy with the lock and key, surely they would not object IF there was more security than that?Or am I being naieve?[/quote]Don't see why not, I think its just having just padlocks they have problems with. We have actually done as they requested with a "proper lock" we also have padlocks on the door as well, one of those square ones where you can't see the bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 [quote user="ventodue"]Am I the only one to be surprised that anyone would think that a hasp and staple + padlock was adequate security, be it in France, the UK or anywhere else ...? AND this in a property that isn't permanently occupied? J'hallucine ...Why should any insurance company compensate for the failure of someone to properly secure their possessions?[/quote]A decent padlock is more secure than the shite that THEY specify as acceptable.As far as they are concerned, this sort of crap is acceptable....[img]http://www.bricodepot.fr/images/page_prod_medium/14500/14955.jpg[/img]despite the fact that there is no way to fit that to a sliding door and even if you could, its a type of lock that can be defeated with a screwdriver within seconds.This is why I said its all a farce. As things stand, the contents are uninsured. If I want cover I have to reduce the security level of the lock, or at least fit their rubbish alongside how I currently secure it just for show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ventodue Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 [quote user="dave21478"] If I want cover I have to reduce the security level of the lock, or at least fit their rubbish alongside how I currently secure it, just for show. [/quote]Agree, Dave - I can't see how that kind of rim lock is going to do much in your case. As I guess you know, those are intended for wooden entrance doors. You commonly find them fitted to many older properties, albeit normally in threes. IME, they're not so easy to force, btw - there's a proper deadlock mechanism inside. (Well, there is, provided you don't do as Pommier's post and buy a Chinese knock-off at Bricomerde for €3 ... [Www])But I hope you're not saying that a padlock is gonna give you a proper level of security, are you? From your description, it seems that whoever made your door(s) in the first place failed to allow for the installation of a proper lock. Which was common enuf a few years back; but given the number of farm break-ins happening at the mo' in France, I can't see how any insurance company is going to be particularly sympathetic, should the worst happen ...[:-))] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 A padlock is about as good as it gets for now.I have one of this style...[img]http://www.keytrak4security.co.uk/ekmps/shops/keytrak/images/cisa-285-66-heavy-duty-padlock-5-p.jpg[/img]And its not just on a crummy wee hasp, but an arrangement of steel rings fitted to door and frame. There is no easy way to get at anything with bolt cutters that are big enough to be usefull, so it would require an angle grinder or a hell of a lot of hacksawing to get through it.I doubt whoever built the door really thought much about locking it, and fitting anyting usefully secure that will satisfy the insurers is going to require some thought and substantial re-working of the door - This is number 17 on my list of "Things I will probably get round to doing one day. Maybe." So until then I will just make do with the padlock, locking gates over the driveway, security floodlights all over the garden and nosy neighbours....which is all a hell of a lot more secure than most places around here....case in point being the neighbour who has several collectable old cars in a hanger that appears to be closed by double doors locked by a single wee lock as I posted above. Never mind the doors being so warped and wobbly that he needs to prop them shut with fence posts when its windy to prevent them popping open...its a flush-fitted lock so his insurers will be happy. [8-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I am asked every year by the insurance agent (MAAF) to ensure that all outside doors are secured and that access from outside requires a key. This was clearly explained clearly as "you must open/lock the door with a key when you're outside. Any padlock or handle etc can be installed inside or outside, but you can access from outside only with a key."This applies to all the doors opening into the house, including the inside trap door between the house and the cellar.My understanding is that this is a standard requirement for all French house insurance contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 I surprised myself today and actually did something with this!I have had this latch from bricodepot gathering dust for several months....[img]http://www.bricodepot.fr/images/page_prod_medium/43000/43364.jpg[/img]But as I mentioned above, had never really got round to installing it, mainly due to it not being too easy to do.Well, after a little pondering, the answer is surprisingly simple - fit the latch to the door frame and the striker plate to the sliding door rather than the normal way round!I had some old 4mm steel plate so made up a section that bolts to the wooden door post with a slot cut in it for the latch mechanism. Now since the door sits on the outside of the opening and does not butt against the door frame, I had to make a bracket that holds the striker plate on the inside of the door, where it lines up with the latch. I made this out of the same steel plate with a few gussets for strength and it works fine. I loose maybe 6cm opening the door wide as the gussets and striker plate stop the door from opening as far as it used to, but thats no major problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fittersmate Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Had a meeting with our MMA insurance agent recently, rehashing and tailoring our insurance. We asked about locking hanger doors and the junior we were talking to asked the boss. He said that padlocks would not be acceptable in an urban situation but on rural buildings they will accept them as long as they are a recognised make with a chain etc.And they require a photo to put in our file in the office.And photos of all the major items to be insured in the hangar-so that's about 150 photos according to OH!So other half is again making noises about steel plate and welding rods-I hope he doesn't burn the place down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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