Bringing back the Carte de Séjour?

[NormanH]

Seems a possibility according to this article.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/12/british-expats-may-need-permits-to-live-in-europe-after-brexit/

It seems a predictable move since we needed them a few years back. I have just re-newed mine for 10 years.

[Cathar Tours]

Those that want to work in the EU will need a Blue Card which for them will take precedence over the CdS. Those that don't work will of course need one. Those with holiday homes will get 90 days per year in three 30 day blocks and of course you will have to apply before you leave home over the internet like you do for the US.

Thing is I notice that the UK newspapers are getting people jumping up and down about the latter by implying it was targeted at just UK citizens but it was something the UK contributed towards. The design of this new system started way back in 2011 and is to help stop terrorists getting into the EU just as they do in the US.

With the Blue Card it is very interesting to see the criteria for getting one https://www.apply.eu not to dissimilar to the points system that some would like to see the UK invoke.

[EuroTrash]

You have to laugh at the way they pick on a random fact like this that's been in the public domain for years and suddenly call it "news".

What's "news" about the fact that immigrants have to comply with the rules of the country they want to move to, and that the criteria they have to meet are different according to the status of the immigrant? It's the good people of the UK who decided to change their status. And two and two always did make four.

[Chancer]

Stuff the politics, where is that Mr UK Supermarket?

 

The wrinkly has une baguette in her hand so is it in France?

 

They sell better baguettes in my village shop in Sussex than they do here! [:D]

[EuroTrash]

Norman - but does your nice new carte de séjour not say on it that it was issued to you on the basis of you being a ressortissant UE? If so, I doubt if it'll reach its expiry date before it becomes invalid due to your change in status. Though at the rate Tessie is steaming ahead, it might.

[Blodwyn]

The article does say that people already living in Europe probably won't be affected. And it only mentioned Spain and Italy.

It would be a change if we have to prove our income before living in France - we didn't have to do this 8 years ago.

I think that supermarket might be in Spain!

[alittlebitfrench]

ET said: "but does your nice new carte de séjour not say on it that it was issued to you on the basis of you being a ressortissant UE? "

I was going to say that.

This is all a big fuss about nothing. What about the 500, 000 French living in the UK ? There are more French in the UK that Brits in France. Well, if you take Eymet out of the equation.

[Cathar Tours]

Non Schengen EU members such as Denmark, Ireland and the UK as EU members are not subject to the same rules as those countries that are signatories of the Schengen agreement. That means it is up to these countries to put in place any system they like with regards to non EU/EEA immigrants. These rules and the Blue Card scheme apply to anyone from any country not a member of the EU/EEA area.

Therefore once we leave the EU UK nationals will be treated like any other person from outside the EU/EEA wishing to move to the EU. There simply cannot and will not be one rule for UK expats living in France and another rule for everyone else. So yes you will have to prove income etc. to get your carte de séjour once the UK has left just like anyone else.

The way I see it is that UK government and those in it who voted to leave have no idea how interwoven the UK is with the EU at present. They also do not seem to have much of a clue about EU rules either. They seem to think the UK is a "Great" nation and needs special treatment because of it's greatness. Well shock horror we are not what we once were and regardless of how we may view ourselves and however much self importance we think we carry that's not exactly how the rest of the world now see us. We are no better or worse than anyone else these days so we have to get in the queue like the rest of them and will be treated the same.

May needs to remember there are 27 other member states and a EU parliament she has to get past to get anything she wants and there are many countries who will simply say NO to everything she wants. Remember it needs just one to say no and that is the end to any "negotiations".

Still time will tell but hang on to your hat because it may well be a bumpy ride.

[NickP]

[quote user="Cathar Tours"] Those with holiday homes will get 90 days per year in three 30 day blocks and of course you will have to apply before you leave home over the internet like you do for the US. .[/quote]

Who says so?

[EuroTrash]

Seems as reasonable a guess as any, to me ;-)

Under current French law, 30 days is the longest a 'visitor' can legally stay in France for, without any kind of carte de séjour.

And I assume you're in the UK, so just take a look around you: if you were France, would you let all those dodgy-looking British passport holders into your country with no checks, if you didn't have to?

[Cathar Tours]

[quote user="NickP"][quote user="Cathar Tours"] Those with holiday homes will get 90 days per year in three 30 day blocks and of course you will have to apply before you leave home over the internet like you do for the US. .[/quote]

Who says so?

[/quote]

It was in the Guardian or the Marr show, I can't remember which. The original final report (2011) can be found below.

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/e-library/docs/pdf/esta_main_en.pdf

The system is called "European ESTA" and the approval is supposed to be given in November this year. The main driving force is France and Germany.

[NickP]

[quote user="EuroTrash"]Seems as reasonable a guess as any, to me ;-)

Under current French law, 30 days is the longest a 'visitor' can legally stay in France for, without any kind of carte de séjour. [/quote]

m

Until any "new" aggreements are in force you're all guessing, you don't know.

[NickP]

[quote user="Cathar Tours"][quote user="NickP"][quote user="Cathar Tours"] Those with holiday homes will get 90 days per year in three 30 day blocks and of course you will have to apply before you leave home over the internet like you do for the US. .[/quote]

Who says so?

[/quote]

It was in the Guardian or the Marr show, I can't remember which. The original final report (2011) can be found below.

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/e-library/docs/pdf/esta_main_en.pdf

The system is called "European ESTA" and the approval is supposed to be given in November this year. The main driving force is France and Germany.[/quote]

Shame that your memory is fading CT. Come back when you have some facts. I guess your a remoaner, and like all remoaners will grab at any straw that suits your stance?

[EuroTrash]

"Until any "new" aggreements are in force you're all guessing, you don't know."

That's why I used the word "guess"....

Of course, if the two years post-article 50 leaving window runs out before any new agreements have been agreed, Brits will by default be treated like all other non-EU citizens, until such time as a new agreement is made. The existing agreements will end with Brexit, regardless of whether there is anything to take their place or not.

[NormanH]

[quote user="EuroTrash"]Norman - but does your nice new carte de séjour not say on it that it was issued to you on the basis of you being a ressortissant UE? If so, I doubt if it'll reach its expiry date before it becomes invalid due to your change in status. Though at the rate Tessie is steaming ahead, it might.[/quote]

Why would it become invalid?   Please quote your sources for this guess.

My source says

Si vous êtes titulaire d'une carte de résident ou d'une carte de résident de longue durée - UE

de 10 ans qui arrive à expiration, vous pouvez en demander le

renouvellement ou demander une carte de résident permanent.

Cette carte de résident permanent vous ouvre un droit au séjour

inconditionnel et permanent en France, sauf menace à l'ordre public.

Elle est délivrée sous certaines conditions. Vous devez en faire la

demande en préfecture.

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F11201

(That is for non-Europeans)

[EuroTrash]

I'm confused then because how have you managed to get issued with a carte de séjour for a non-European, when you are a European?

[Cathar Tours]

If the UK does not give any rights to EU citizens staying in the UK after our exit (which is highly likely) I doubt that France or any other EU country will do us any favours.

[NormanH]

[quote user="EuroTrash"]I'm confused then because how have you managed to get issued with a carte de séjour for a non-European, when you are a European?[/quote]

Is that the source of your guess, or are you avoiding the question?

i vous êtes titulaire d'une carte de résident ou d'une carte de résident de longue durée - UE

de 10 ans qui arrive à expiration, vous pouvez en demander le

renouvellement ou demander une carte de résident permanent.

Cette carte de résident permanent vous ouvre un droit au séjour

inconditionnel et permanent en France

So I have  a carte de résident permanent....

This is because it is a renewal of the previous 10 year one,

but as I pointed out that is also stated to be the case for non-Europeans on the link I gave.

We are all guessing but if non-Europeans and Europeans who renew a 10 year UE card have the right to permanent residence that doesn't leave a lot of space for others.

[EuroTrash]

Sorry Norman, I had to have a work break and I've completely lost my train of thought.

But I thought that in any case, once a person has been here for 5 years, they have full resident rights regardless.

[NormanH]

My guess is that if a carte de séjour becomes necessary this will be the one.

la carte "Résident de longue durée - CE" concerne les

ressortissants étrangers d'un pays membre de l'Union européenne ayant

résidé de façon ininterrompue pendant au moins 5 ans en France, sous

couvert de l'un d'une carte de séjour temporaire mentions "visiteur", "scientifique", "salarié", "vie privée et familiale", d'une carte de séjour "compétences et talents" ou d'une carte de résident.

Even after Brexit I can show that I have resided in France as a European ( as was)  for five years covered by a carte de résident..

[Sprogster]

Non EU/EAA citizens are allowed to visit the Schengen area as a tourist for a period of up to 90 days a time, with a maximum of 180 days in a year. This is the current practice in France and mirrors the visa waiver scheme that the USA and more recently Canada applies to European tourists that qualify.

I believe that nowadays a carte de sejour/carte de resident has to be applied for in a non EU/EAA applicants home country through their French Embassy and approved before arriving in France. Requirements now include a medical, proof of adequate financial means and comprehensive private health insurance. Where employment in France is involved the French employer has to demonstrate they have been unable to find an EU citizen capable of fulfilling the role. (Unless it is a temporary international company transfer).

On this basis it will probably be very difficult for British citizens, post Brexit, to move to France for employment and future British retirees without adequate financial means and good health might struggle to obtain a non working long term resident visa.

[NickP]

[quote user="Sprogster"]

On this basis it will probably be very difficult for British citizens, post Brexit, to move to France for employment and future British retirees without adequate financial means and good health might struggle to obtain a non working long term resident visa.[/quote]

It's always been difficult for British citizens to get employment in France, so nothing new there, and why would someone (British), who is financially challenged and in poor health want to retire in France? [8-)]

[NormanH]

[quote user="NickP"][quote user="Sprogster"]

On this basis it will probably be very difficult for British citizens, post Brexit, to move to France for employment and future British retirees without adequate financial means and good health might struggle to obtain a non working long term resident visa.[/quote]

It's always been difficult for British citizens to get employment in France, so nothing new there, and why would someone (British), who is financially challenged and in poor health want to retire in France? [8-)]

[/quote]

Health tourism. Up till now there are plenty of sick Brits in France being treated in the more lavish French provision ( not necessarily better medically) paid for by the UK. 

That is what all the howling about preserving the 'rights' of British people in France comes down to.

[NickP]

[quote user="NormanH"]

Health tourism. Up till now there are plenty of sick Brits in France being treated in the more lavish French provision ( not necessarily better medically) paid for by the UK. 

That is what all the howling about preserving the 'rights' of British people in France comes down to.

[/quote]

Absolutly Norman, unlike in the UK where health tourists get treatment and don't pay.

[Hereford]

I have looked up and have "printed" (to a file) all the explanation for the Carte de résident longue durée - we have been here 14 years.

I think I must be losing it as I cannot find the actual form to apply for this - definitely having a senior moment. Norman - do you have a link to the form please? We think we will apply now rather than wait until Brexit happens.

Many thanks

Mrs H.