proof of date moved to France

[mint]

Horrible weather and can't do anything out of doors.  So thought I'd fill in our residence request, having decided that on balance it's easier to get it done now than to have it nagging away at the bank of my mind.

Any suggestions as to what might be a useful document for this?  House purchase attestation from notaire?  First tax avis?  What else might be acceptable?

Thanks

[Cathar Tours]

My dad got a letter from the mayor but then there were only a few hundred people living in the village. He also sent a copy of the bill for his house purchase.

[Loiseau]

Surely house purchase alone could not be proof. It could be as résidence secondaire.

[NormanH]

Avis d'imposition. Utility bills if they are clearly for 12 months of the year.

Date of first Carte Vitale? Electoral list? Change of driving licence to a French one?

[fittersmate]

I am sure we used date that was on our first tax avis. Also, if you had an S1 or E121 or Attestation for Carte Vitale then it may have date on one of those documents.

[mint]

Thanks everybody.  First tax avis it is then.

PS.  Just located the first tax avis AND the contributions sociales avis as, of course, in those days, the bills were separate[I]

[idun]

Wondering exactly what date you will use mint, as the tax return is done in the middle of the following year, so how are you going to date your move???  Or was it marked on that tax bill, ie so many months during the previous year???

[mint]

 Id, just had a look.  It says "adresse d'mposition au 01.01.2008" and "revenu de 2007"

We moved here on 01.04.2007.  As they are only looking for people who have been here for at least 5 years, I don't think the actual date is so important for us.

[BritinBretagne]

When you complete your first tax return one of the questions is, when did you arrive in France.

As you say anything over five years is immaterial.

[suein56]

Fortunately (following Idun's ages old advice to keep all paperwork for at least 10 years) I have kept our original ferry tickets from the UK to France and the contract we had to rent a Gite over part of the winter following our arrival on French soil.

There were no return ferry tickets ever booked or bought afterwards ?.

As not everyone comes here as a result of retirement complete with an S1 from the UK ..

We also have copies of the form we sent to the UK reclaiming UK tax paid following our first tax declaration in France the year following our arrival here .. our date of arrival is clearly written.

Later confirmed by UK when they approved our S1s many years later.

[mint]

[quote user="BritinBretagne"]When you complete your first tax return one of the questions is, when did you arrive in France.

As you say anything over five years is immaterial.[/quote]

BnB, on thinking over what you have said on another thread about getting the application in straightaway in order to get yourself registered, I am acting on your advice. 

Just scanning the bank statements in and then ready to go tomorrow.  Incidentally, scanning is very tedious for me as I use the scanning function of an antiquated Epson printer.  I do have an excellent laser printer but I was too mean to buy a combined machine!

[cajal]

If you were in receipt of any income liable to UK taxation  at the time of your arrival in France you should have filled out and filed a Form France-Individual United Kingdom/France Double Taxation Convention (SI 2009 Number 226.

This form would require you to enter 'the date on which you became a resident of France'. On completion the form should have initially been forwarded to Service des Impôts Particuliers for the district in which you reside. The Service des Impôts Particuliers will certify that you are resident in France for the purposes of French tax and will return the form to you to forward on to HM Revenue and Customs.

[BritinBretagne]

I just photographed the documents that I needed then printed them directly on my laser printer. Much quicker than scanning.

Good luck.

[mint]

Cajal, yes, I remember a document like the one you have described.  I also remember doing a UK tax return for the year until 31 March and then the French one for the rest of that year.

In fact we chose to move on 1 April to start, as we thought, the new tax year, not knowing at the time that the French tax year starts on 1 January!  Goes to show how much we knew about anything French at the time[:-))]

[idun]

Have you never had to have a Carte or Titre de Sejour mint and ofcourse many other posters too???

What I found very very strange was when they said that they were no longer required, was that so many things in France are so dependant on the ID card as one basically has to have ID at all times in France, or is it four hours to produce it.

I suppose a UK driving licence would do, but  would it, but I would not want to be carrying my passport at all times, that is for sure. 

I liked having french ID, everyone understood it.

[Cathar Tours]

I have never understood those in the UK that object to ID cards. For me it's the same response to them, if you do nothing wrong what have you to worry about? Until I got mine I had to carry my passport with me because they would not accept my driving licence as ID proof as it was a UK one (they claim it my be forged) at the time. I have changed mine to German now anyway.

[BritinBretagne]

ID is a strange thing. France stopped insisting that all British citizens resident in France had a CdS when the EU rules stated that proof of identity was sufficient. For that a passport not a photo driving licence was required. I was hoping that my CdS wold enable me to leave my passport at home when using my railcard to travel by train but apparently the CdS is not proof of identity so I should carry my passport as well. I’m waiting to be asked for ID when presenting my ticket on a train, I haven’t been since I got my CdS, to see if my CdS will be accepted in that situation.

[mint]

[quote user="idun"]

Have you never had to have a Carte or Titre de Sejour mint and ofcourse many other posters too???

What I found very very strange was when they said that they were no longer required, was that so many things in France are so dependant on the ID card as one basically has to have ID at all times in France, or is it four hours to produce it.

I suppose a UK driving licence would do, but  would it, but I would not want to be carrying my passport at all times, that is for sure. 

I liked having french ID, everyone understood it.

[/quote]

Id, I made extensive enquiries as to what we needed before we moved (2007) and we were told by various bodies that a cds was NOT necessary.  In subsequent years, I did check from time to time but the answer was always that, as a UK citizen, you do not need this carte.

There used to be some discussions (when the forum had many more contributors) about this very issue and some people did say that, although not necessary, you could still apply for it.  However, many people also said that when they tried to apply, they were told don't bother.

The last time I tried to get one was in 2018.  I wanted to do it in 2017 once Theresa May said we were leaving.  But, as you now, I was ill and undergoing intensive medical treatment at that time and I simply failed to get my head around the paperwork, travelling to the préfecture, etc.  By about November of 2018, the prefecture in Périgueux had stopped all rdvs for people wanting to apply for the first time. 

We have a conseiller in our village who knew someone in the préfecture who deals with these things and she contacted the person on our behalf and the answer she came back to us was to wait to see whether Brexit was definitely going ahead.  So that leaves us where we are today....[:(]

As for identification, we use our French driving license which we have both had for several years.  It's good for most things but I take my passport when going into hospital because the hospital told me that in instances of hospital admission, I would need my passport. 

[idun]

Thankyou for the full reply, and with your prompt, I remember the

discussions on here about the CdeS and the prefectures not wanting to

issue them.

And yet, I would have got them for

us. Not necessary never meant that one could not have one and they are

so handy and no need of a passport, which if lost is much more hassle

and cost to replace and as far as I was concerned only ever necessary if

changing banks OR travelling.

BinB, even when we all had to have them,  the CdeS was

never for use when travelling abroad, it was an internal french ID card.

Whereas french ID cards could be used when travelling to other

countries within the EU.

[nomoss]

[quote user="cajal"]

If you were in receipt of any income liable to UK taxation  at the time of your arrival in France you should have filled out and filed a Form France-Individual United Kingdom/France Double Taxation Convention (SI 2009 Number 226.

This form would require you to enter 'the date on which you became a resident of France'. On completion the form should have initially been forwarded to Service des Impôts Particuliers for the district in which you reside. The Service des Impôts Particuliers will certify that you are resident in France for the purposes of French tax and will return the form to you to forward on to HM Revenue and Customs.

[/quote]

When we became resident in France we had lived outside the UK for around 40 years, so had probably filled out some equivalent form in the distant past, as we have not paid UK taxes on any income there since we left. I seem to remember that our banks once sent forms to declare foreign residence, but these did not have to be certified.

When the Spanish taxman asked us for proof of

residence in France, we

assumed that some relevant French form existed. We were reclaiming a chunk of money deducted for CGT from the proceeds

of a property sale in Spain, so went to the main tax office in Carcassonne.

We were passed

upwards, eventually to a senior lady there, who

insisted there was no form for this purpose, and who could make no

suggestion of any means to prove our residence. We had paid taxes in

France for around 6 years at the time.

We

sat in her office and presented more and more arguments and questions, and discussed the problem between ourselves, in English, rather than leaving as she obviously wanted, and intended to flat refuse

to leave if necessary, until she finally gave in. She had a short

letter typed out on headed paper, which she signed and stamped, and

which was accepted in Spain.

It took a lot of

effort, but we were not about to give up on recovering the money deducted, as we had already lost on the sale of the

property.

We got very used to arguing our case with officials during a couple of years in Algeria, which was useful training for France.

[woolybanana]

From memory, I simply gave them my tax returns etc and was not asked for a date of arrival in France. Because it was over 5 years I suspect they werent interested.

Nimt, are you applying for the existing c.de.s. or for the new post EU one?

[Cathar Tours]

I was looking for something on my dad's old computer and found this this document. It is the (translated) list of documents required by the Prefecture in Aude and was dated 29th March 2018.

Sorry about the formatting, I just copied it. I notice that it does not ask when you came to France just "Proof of the right of residence during the preceding 5 years: 5 last complete tax notice."

-PREPARE a DOSSIER with PHOTOCOPIES of all of the following DOCUMENTS:

the documents must be translated into French by an official translator.

The originals to be necessarily presented

- title ID or valid passport.

-DOCUMENTS of vital

- extract from birth certificate

- if married: marriage and family booklet with possibly pages of children

- if divorced: judgment of divorce

-PROOF of resources

- Account statements in Euros

- or proof of retirement, pension, by final payment

Proof of the right of residence during the preceding 5 years:

5 last complete tax notice

PROOF of home by recent E.D.F. receipt (if foreign hosted, attach handwritten attestation on honour of the landlord with his recent E.D.F. release and his national identity card or his residence permit)

Proof of continuity of residence: any document proving the continuous stay: receipts of rents or charges, invoices etc.

-4 passport photos (standard ISO 19794-5: 2005)

-social security (sickness insurance) valid

[woolybanana]

That corresponds to what I was asked for, CT.

[mint]

Wools, as explained, the préfecture in Périgueux has been refusing to issue any rdvs since about November of 2018 for requests for first cds.

So, this is the online application for post brexit that I am talking about and yes, there IS a requirement for date of arrival in France.

[woolybanana]

I could have sworn I posted this, Nimt.

http://invite.contacts-demarches.interieur.gouv.fr/content/download/3396/24069/file/PO19090367-Use_Case_V17.pdf

which should give help with proof of date of arrival.