cancelled bookings

[Wilko]

Due to the smoking mountain with the non pronounceable name in Iceland I have had a number of cancellations....mostly US and Oz. A number of these people want their deposits back. Whilst I can understand these peoples disappointment I don't feel that it is my place to refund monies.........if it is what is the point of a deposit.

Any thoughts from you fellow B&Bers.

W

[Théière]

Thats the point of travel insurance, not your problem as long as your T&C's state how you operate on cancellations.

[Northender]

Presumably when all this as died down they may want to visit in the future.Why not offer to "hold" their deposit for such a possibility

[Cendrillon]

Wilko

I don't think you can be held responsible for the smoking mountain which has caused such inconvenience. If you were very generous you might offer a stay at a later date to the disappointed clients but why should you? As someone else has said, that is what they have travel insurance for. No-one is going to compensate you for the cancelled bookings are they.

[Wilko]

Thanks for the replies, I was interested in what other people thought re the situation. I have already mailed these folk and said that they should be claiming on their travel insurance and said that their deposits are good for the next 12 months. Some seem happy with this but one of them has become particularly rude and threatening..............which may well lead to an interesting exchange of emails, which gives me something to do after the footie tonight.

Ironically Mrs W has been stuck in Sweden for the past few days due to old smoky.

Thanks again for your replies.

Rgds Wilko

[Polly]

I don't have a B&B but have been involved in running businesses various for a long time (UK and France).

I

would suggest that once things get 'sticky' you read your own small

print v carefully, then avoid emails and switch to recorded delivery

snail mail for your replies and be v careful what you say.

On the

commercial side, ask yourself' how many times will these people come

back to me, or refer me to others?' (they haven't even visited you, so

they can't give you a glowing report on your facilities).

[Théière]

[quote user="Wilko"]Some seem happy with this but one of them has become particularly rude and threatening..............[/quote]

That'll be the one without insurance..........................simples [:)]

[Quillan]

If it helps this is our cancellation policy which is an English translation taken from both the GDF and Clevacance documentation and as stated in the 'little book' issued by the 

"Ministère de l’économique des finances et de l’industrie"

I decided to use this as its mentioned in all 3 places and I felt that if it ever came to a legal dispute I might stand more of a chance. I also have at the beginning that only French law applies and the terms can only be changed by the consent of both parties in writing and signed. If you want to see my complete Terms and Conditions then click HERE

Cancellation of Reservation

Any cancellation must be notified (in writing) by registered letter or telegram:

- If more than 90 days notice is given the deposit will be refunded in full within 30 days of receipt of the cancellation letter or telegram.

- If notice of cancellation is given between 61 and 90 days 75% of the deposit will be refunded within 30 days of receipt of the cancellation letter or telegram.

- If notice of cancellation is given between 30 and 60 days 50% of the deposit will be refunded within 30 days of receipt of the cancellation letter or telegram.

- No deposit will be returned if notice of cancellation is given less than 30 days prior to arrival.

The owner recommends that all guests take holiday cancellation insurance

So in my case this is how I would approach the problem.

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Théière"]

[quote user="Wilko"]Some seem happy with this but one of them has become particularly rude and threatening..............[/quote]

That'll be the one without insurance..........................simples [:)]

[/quote]

 I think thats a little harsh as many policy providers are saying its an Act of God and not paying out....

[AnOther]

Both sides of the coin have their merits however on balance I have to say tend to agree with RH.

Whilst I sympathise with those who have lost out on income this has been a wholly unprecedented, unpredictable, and unavoidable, situation and Quillans fairly standard cancellation clauses really only cover voluntary situations, not force majeure. Most commercial contracts include clauses to cover that eventuality.

I appreciate that for some Gite and B&B owners every € of income makes a difference however I think for the great majority it's unlikely to be make a make or break issue and in the circumstances I think that personally I would have some moral qualms about hanging on to deposits if the customer did not wish to or could not take advantage of a credit for the future.

A difficult dilemma.

[Quillan]

And those companies also insure themselves. So even though its not the B&B or Gite owners fault either they are going to pay, I don't think so. The best I offer if they break the Terms and Conditions is to deduct their deposit from any future stay as a good will gesture.

I rather feel Ryanair and BMI will be setting the precedents on this as both have refused to give refund or pay for accommodation etc even though EU law says they should. On C4 News tonight they had the minister on who was only willing to state the EU rules and would not commit to anything to do with insisting they pay. When you think he really does hold the 'key' in that he can simply ban them from UK airspace in just the same way as Ryanair threatens to pull out of airports that don't agree to their terms.

[Théière]

[quote user="Russethouse"][quote user="Théière"]

[quote user="Wilko"]Some seem happy with this but one of them has become particularly rude and threatening..............[/quote]

That'll be the one without insurance..........................simples [:)]

[/quote]

 I think thats a little harsh as many policy providers are saying its an Act of God and not paying out....

[/quote]

Sorry RH, but you are mis-interpretting what I meant, not making any comment on insurance only the strong possibility that they didn't take out a policy.

If it were me and proof of a policy was sent and a letter confirming the insurance wouldn't pay then I would most likely split the deposit 50-50 with the guests.

A year ago after the flash floods a guest with insurance tried to claim from us then put in a claim to his insurer so trying to get paid out twice, fortunately they got caught when the insurer wrote to us. 

[Russethouse]

Yes and I'm what I'm saying is that in this situation you shouldn't assume the person didn't take out insurance, nothing 'simples' about it, they well could have done, but that insurance may not, in common with others, be paying out.

[Richard51]

A contract is a contract.  You are entitled to keep the deposit.  At best you could do as Quillan suggests and offer to hold the deposit or, be very generous, refund if you can rebook. 

RH - why should the business owner forfeit his contractual rights so that he takes all the losses while the tenant walks away scot free?  (I suggest you don't go into business, RH - you'll be bankrupt in months falling for all the hard luck stories!)

[Russethouse]

 I am in business, thanks ![:)]

I'm not saying anything of the kind, what I'm saying is that Thieire was wrong to jump to the conclusion that the person being the most difficult was somehow at fault because he didn't have insurance, he may well have. (You know the saying, never assume !)

 Can't we give someone the benefit of the doubt, the would be client is probably annoyed at not beling able to have his holiday or place a claim and has just vented his frustration inappropriatley......I'd give it a day or too and write back in a concilatory tone without giving an inch, providing I was happy that the small print on my booking form supported the action I was taking.

[Théière]

[quote user="Russethouse"]Yes and I'm what I'm saying is that in this situation you shouldn't assume the person didn't take out insurance, nothing 'simples' about it, they well could have done, but that insurance may not, in common with others, be paying out.[/quote]

And my folow up comment was:

If it were me and proof of a policy was sent and a letter confirming the insurance wouldn't pay then I would most likely split the deposit 50-50 with the guests.

Which is bloody fair yes

Having worked in insurance and had people not take up a policy (their choice) when things go wrong in their life they look for someone to blame which is why we used to get the decline of a policy signed by the customer

 

[Wilko]

Hi All

Many thanks for your numerous replies.

Polly thanks for the advice, I shouldn’t think they’ll be visiting and I don’t think we’d like any of her friends to visit if they are similar. Theiere yes simples my first thought as well, he’s not being harsh RH just a little tongue in cheek………..have to say his response made me laugh. Q thanks for the cancellation policy, it’s filed away……………should I send it to her ? AnOther…….I don’t have a moral dilemma here, she’s been offered a better deal than her insurance company is offering, if she has a policy. Richard 51…….read my previous post.

RH & T…………this person’s attitude is without equal on the rude stakes so the chances of her being recompensed are less than slim, if her attitude were a little more reasonable it might well be a different matter. I may well call Brigadier General D H Wilko and ask him to get the gun boat out of mothballs to teach these colonies a spot of decorum.

Still no news from overseas, but will keep you posted.

Rgds W

[Russethouse]

And where was this odius person from ?

[Chancer]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

 I am in business, thanks ![:)]

I'm not saying anything of the kind, what I'm saying is that Thieire was wrong to jump to the conclusion that the person being the most difficult was somehow at fault because he didn't have insurance, [/quote]

I didnt read any reference to anyone being at fault, just a resonable guess that they didnt have insurance.

It doesnt surprise me that the insurers dont want to pay out, it seems to me that it is their raison d'être and why I usually only subscribe to insurance if it is a legal obligation and accept the curved balls that life throws my way at times.

At least I can get on with dealing with the situation without getting bitter fighting the insurance company at the same time.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Richard51"]A contract is a contract.  You are entitled to keep the deposit.  At best you could do as Quillan suggests and offer to hold the deposit or, be very generous, refund if you can rebook. 

[/quote]

Actually thats another option we use at times and might consider using if we were in the same boat as Wilko concerning this volcano stuff but it would be an offer of 'good will' and not a change of our standard Terms and Conditions. The problem is there are so many B&B's and Gites out there that competition is hard and guests don't grow on trees so unlike an object where you can go buy another we are in a different boat completely. Life is hard unfortunately and in situations like this we are all sitting here, or there, thinking that its not our fault, why should we have to pay out (I am of course talking about all involved, guest, airline and B&B or Gite owner).

With reference to Wilko's troublesome guest I would just mark her account as Spam and leave it at that.

[Polly]

Quillan, does anyone these days ever send a telegram?

[AnOther]

Apparently someone must:

http://www.itelegram.com/

http://www.telegrams4u.co.uk

In parts of the 3rd world I imagine it is still a common form of communication.

Maybe not completely extinct in France then [Www]

[Quillan]

[quote user="Polly"]Quillan, does anyone these days ever send a telegram?
[/quote]

Probably not but that's what it says on the documents so that's what I put. If I changed it and there's a legal problem (hopefully not) then my 'tinkering' with the wording may work against me. The only time I have had to revert to this I told the person to send a registered letter and I would make the calculation based on the post mark date.

[Dominique]

[quote user="Quillan"]If it helps this is our cancellation policy which is an English translation taken from both the GDF and Clevacance documentation and as stated in the 'little book' issued by the 

"Ministère de l’économique des finances et de l’industrie"

I decided to use this as its mentioned in all 3 places and I felt that if it ever came to a legal dispute I might stand more of a chance. I also have at the beginning that only French law applies and the terms can only be changed by the consent of both parties in writing and signed. If you want to see my complete Terms and Conditions then click HERE

Cancellation of Reservation

Any cancellation must be notified (in writing) by registered letter or telegram:

- If more than 90 days notice is given the deposit will be refunded in full within 30 days of receipt of the cancellation letter or telegram.

- If notice of cancellation is given between 61 and 90 days 75% of the deposit will be refunded within 30 days of receipt of the cancellation letter or telegram.

- If notice of cancellation is given between 30 and 60 days 50% of the deposit will be refunded within 30 days of receipt of the cancellation letter or telegram.

- No deposit will be returned if notice of cancellation is given less than 30 days prior to arrival.

The owner recommends that all guests take holiday cancellation insurance

So in my case this is how I would approach the problem.

[/quote]

Hi, I know I don't post very frenquently ! but there is another clause in the Clévacances T and C that state:

Should the Tenant cancel at any time before arrival because of force majeure duly supported by valid reasons, the Landlord shall return the advance payment in full within 30 days of the date of cancellation.

Whether the volcanic eruption is force majeure could be open to discussion ?  Some insurers appear to have classified as as Act of God , some are refunding, so hard to know.

Best regards

Dominique

[Swissie]

But surely they could chose to drive instead of flying, or take the train. France is still very accessible. I would give them information about the best Ferry services and trains, with the best deal info on car hire. Very different to going to the US or OZ! There is absolutely no reason for cancelling a booking in France.

PS tried to delete having re-read the OP - but was timed out. I commented on possible cancellations from the UK for later this year.

Why is there so little time allowed for deletion or editing?