Should I charge for cleaning ?

[Blanche Neige]

Pun

I think we would all be interested to hear how your gites work out for you, is it next year you begin?

Re. the arrival and departure times it would be worth checking some of the conditions set out on other gite websites. Perhaps you could have alook at frenchconnections or brittany ferries websites and see the arrival and departure times.

Miki, as you say you have been in the business a long time and in different regions of France, so have a lot of experience and most likely more than anyone on here. I see no reason why you have to justify your way of running the business to anyone here, it obviously works well enough or you would have been back home to blighty and on the "social" by now.[;-)]

Eslier

"suggestions such as those made by Pun encourage us to think "outside the box".

crikey!......................................................I am not too sure about this comment[8-)]

[Miki]

[quote]Eslier

"suggestions such as those made by Pun encourage us to think "outside the box".[/quote]

(Gill)                              

crikey!......................................................I am not

too sure about this comment......

Sorry but the minute someone says, "lets run it up the flagpole and see who salutes it" or wiggles two fingers on both hands to infer inverted commas or that damned "outside the box" and

the 101 phrases that make up the speech of the marketing, banking and

advertising/communications peeps, I am out of the door and running.

Give me things straight, talk to me without the horrocks then I can

talk and do business but like Gill and not being sure about this

comment......... I am sure (and I think she will be the same) where I

am heading and it's far away from the speaker !

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Miki"]

[quote]Eslier

"suggestions such as those made by Pun encourage us to think "outside the box".[/quote]

(Gill)                              

crikey!......................................................I am not

too sure about this comment......

Sorry but the minute someone says, "lets run it up the flagpole and see who salutes it" or wiggles two fingers on both hands to infer inverted commas or that damned "outside the box" and

the 101 phrases that make up the speech of the marketing, banking and

advertising/communications peeps, I am out of the door and running.

Give me things straight, talk to me without the horrocks then I can

talk and do business but like Gill and not being sure about this

comment......... I am sure (and I think she will be the same) where I

am heading and it's far away from the speaker !

[/quote]

Miki, Miki, Miki,

We've got to stay in step with modern thinking on business practice. If

we don't seek excellence in the quality / chaos paradigm, optimise

across funtionalities and, indeed, think outside the box, then it is

likely that an occurance of inverse pofitisability could impact our

bottom lines. Then what would become of us?

Its entirely possible that the gîte business could be taken over by

Chinese interests in the furtherence of efficiency. I for one don't

want to become Chinese. I've tried birdsnest soup and didn't like it at

all.[8-)]

[Cassis]

Never had a problem with a bit of bluesky thinking.  Let's push the envelope here, pass the ball and see who runs with it.

God, it's like being back at work in the UK!  [:D]

[YCCMB]

I've been following this thread with interest, too. Can I ask a reeely stupid question? If people are so keen on a "self-catering" holiday, i.e. one where they do their own cooking and washing up (and in many cases, their own washing and ironing - God knows, they often get quite antsy if a machine and iron don't come as standard) then what's the major difference between continuing all the other domestic tasks that they "wouldn't do on holiday" and continuing to do a bit of cleaning?? It seems everyone's in agreement that they don't expect people to get the place to "Kim and Aggie" standards, but just to keep things to areasonable level of cleanliness and order. As Dick and others have said, if cleaning is offered as an extra (at extra cost) then those who have a "little woman who does" at home can get one on holiday too!!

Now, should I get a flipchart and we can brainstorm a few ideas, or do you want to split into syndicate groups and discuss? And don't come back with ideas, I want solutions![:D]

[Cassis]

Perhaps we could have some role playing exercises as well?

What you say makes excellent sense to me.

[Blanche Neige]

Perhaps we could have some role playing exercises as well?

Nah, come on you guys, why don't we all have an "away day" and do a little brainstorming!

LOL[:)]

Croix Blanches

I'm absolutely with you on the definition of "self catering"

[BJSLIV]

Perhaps we could have some role playing exercises as well?

No thanks , there are already more than enough people around here playing at running a gite business!

(Sorry couldn't resist)

[Russethouse]

Lets forget all about grading the gites and grade the customers instead!

 

Hands up any gite owners who have previousley been at the sharp end of dealing with the general public ?

(Yes Miki - I know you have your hand up [:D] and St Amour too [:D] teachers - school children don't count for this game [;-)])

 

[Dick Smith]

What about parents?  The stories I could tell...

[cooperlola]

If anybody running a business thinks that marketing is about US gibberish then they should think again.  It's about learning to think like your customers . It's about setting prices that reflect costs.  It's about making it perfectly clear, in understandable, uncomplicated and unambiguous language, the responsibilties of both the seller (of a product or a service) and customer before, not after, purchase.

My point is that all people are different.  One person's idea of "clean" is quite different from another's, this is everybody's experience isn't it?  One person's idea of "self catering" is different from another's.  Basic stuff.  But tell me this, would be interested to know what you all think : what constitutes reasonable cleaning in your book?  Dust, for instance, accumulates on surfaces over time.  When I leave a gite, should I dust?  Cobwebs, should I remove them or leave it to the spiders who made them in the first place?  If I find dirty pans in cupboards (it's happened) should I mention this to the owner so they'll charge the previous occupant, or just wash it up and use it?  When I hoover, should I move the furniture and hoover underneath as I would do at home or just hoover the bits I've walked on? 

The original post was interesting because the gite owner was not present when her guests left.  Some suggested that having left early, then the guest should have cleaned on the Friday night.  Then maybe a good idea would have been to carry out the leaving inspection on the Friday instead? Not perfect, but she would have got less of a shock and could have discussed some cleaning costs with them in person, and not been left with this problem when the people have gone and it's harder to solve. It seems to me that both owner and customer can reach agreement more easily if both are present when the door is finally closed and the key handed back. 

As a renter, the best gites and cottages I have rented have been those where the owner came and said goodbye and we've had a look round together before we leave, then I tell them about anything I may have broken (yes, guilty, the odd cup/glass etc) and give them feedback (that's marketing speak for constructive comments) on any problems I may have had so that hopefully, it's solved for the next guests.

I wouldn't want to run a gite or a b&b because, yes, I think I would be quickly demoralised by the fact that people whose standards were lower than mine might abuse what I hope would be a nice place to stay in the first place.  That's why I don't do it but I don't think that it's unreasonable to expect it to happen from time to time if it is the business you are in.  It must be horrible but basically s**t occasionally happens.

 

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

I wouldn't want to run a gite or a b&b

because, yes, I think I would be quickly demoralised by the fact that

people whose standards were lower than mine might abuse what I hope

would be a nice place to stay in the first place.  That's why I

don't do it but I don't think that it's unreasonable to expect it to

happen from time to time if it is the business you are in.  It

must be horrible but basically s**t occasionally happens.

 [/quote]     

Just to be serious for a few moments (an enormous effort, believe

me), I believe that it is important to regard a gite (I cannot speak

for B&Bs) dispassionately as a business assest, not as a home.

Think of it as a home and every little abuse, every stain, every

chipped cup takes on an emotional significance. Obviously it is also

important to maintain the highest standard of comfort and cleanliness,

but it can be very grinding if every little bit of wear and tear upsets

one.

The people I have met who tend to have been the most "highly strung"

about the condition their property has been left in have been those who

let out their second homes to raise to some income against the cost of

having it or who let out their main residence during the season.

That is not to say I don't like our guests. I do. I really do. Out

of all the groups who have been through our properties, there is only

one group whom I wouldn't want to see again. They used kitchen knives

as screwdrivers, despite our providing a little tool box for their use.

I can never forgive them for being so crass.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

If anybody running a business thinks that

marketing is about US gibberish then they should think again. 

It's about learning to think like your customers . It's about

setting prices that reflect costs.  It's about making it perfectly

clear, in understandable, uncomplicated and unambiguous language, the

responsibilties of both the seller (of a product or a

service) and customer before, not after, purchase.

[/quote]

That must be where I am going wrong. I was labouring under the

misapprehension that marketing was 50% gibberish and 50% putting the

same old p**s in a different shaped bottle. Mind you, I worked in the

oil industry so most of our customers simply set fire to our products,

which could be pretty disheartening. And they hated us. And I was never

in marketing, so I have no idea how it is supposed to work.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Jon D"][quote user="cooperlola"]

If anybody running a business thinks that marketing is about US gibberish then they should think again.  It's about learning to think like your customers . It's about setting prices that reflect costs.  It's about making it perfectly clear, in understandable, uncomplicated and unambiguous language, the responsibilties of both the seller (of a product or a service) and customer before, not after, purchase.

[/quote]

That must be where I am going wrong. I was labouring under the misapprehension that marketing was 50% gibberish and 50% putting the same old p**s in a different shaped bottle. Mind you, I worked in the oil industry so most of our customers simply set fire to our products, which could be pretty disheartening. And they hated us. And I was never in marketing, so I have no idea how it is supposed to work.
[/quote]I think you're mixing it up with advertising Jon! (Sorry, that's a bit unfair).Yes, must have been a b*mmer when your customers burnt all your hard work.

[Dick Smith]

Jon, I think you are dead right, and those attitudes do seem to come across in many of these posts.

As far as 'marketing' is concerned, this is now a real issue for anyone who expects to make a living from the public. We do it in schools, and had criticism for years, along the lines we have seen here of 'offer a service (sic) that you want to offer and let the paying customer change their wants to suit you'. People would suggest that if customers didn't like what we were offering they could go elsewhere. Which of course they did, and people found themselves out of work. We now realise (or at least most of us do) that we have to ask our public what they want, possibly educate them a bit about that (ie your kid probably won't get a job if they do a timetable of nothing but art and PE) and then, in a professional way, tailor a service to suit their needs and wants. As somebody said earlier, the principles are always the same.

I once stopped in a gîte that was somebody's home - he went to stay with his girlfriend whilst we were there. He obviously worried about having people in his home, his belongings were there, it was a bit of a heap - not happy. When we met we got on OK (we had booked through a mutual friend) and in the end it was a happy stay, but fraught.

And there was no chance we could have left by 9am!

[Catalpa]

It's certainly 50% psychology. [:P]  I can assure anyone who is contemplating a slight wrinkling of the nose at the concept of marketing being anything other than a waste of carefully-honed business jargon ([6]) you have been, are and will continue to be influenced by someone's marketing efforts somewhere. No one - unless they are leading an hermetically sealed life - can remain untouched by marketing. [kiss]

[Miki]

[quote] Miki, Miki, Miki,

We've got to stay in step with modern thinking on business practice. If

we don't seek excellence in the quality / chaos paradigm, optimise

across funtionalities and, indeed, think outside the box, then it is

likely that an occurance of inverse pofitisability could impact our

bottom lines. Then what would become of us? [/quote]

What indeed Jon and when I finally  work it all out, I shall know what it means [;-)].

So OK, I now take on board (well almost [:)] ) what you has all inputted.

Now I shall take a comfy body positioner and run the ball up hill

and see what has happened to it when it runs back past me

again......let's see where the lines on the pitch end up and if they

are still in the same place, heads will roll and hunters brought in, am

I making myself crystal or is it opaque ? If the latter, we need to

clarify where we cannot visualise.

So let's get ready to roll and let's see if when the ball re-arrives, it has snow or sun on it.

OK, feet to the ground heads to the desks, who'll start me at £200 per

week in the winter, I have a bid on the phone, what's in the room.....

Mixed up, you bet I am, I could have sworn we were getting close to

being right but instead of being sure, I'm all unsure

again..................[8-)] [;-)]

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Miki"]OK, I now take on board what you have all inputted.

Now I shall take a comfy body positioner and let the ball run up hill and see what has happened to it when it runs back past me again......let's see where the lines on the pitch end up and if they are still in the same place, heads will roll and hunters brought in, am I making myself crystal or is it opaque ? If the latter, we need to clarify where we cannot visualise.

So let's get ready to roll and let's see if when the ball re-arrives, it has snow or sun on it.

OK, feet to the ground heads to the desks, who'll start me at £200 per week in the winter, I have a bid on the phone, what's in the room.....

Mixed up, you bet I am, I could have sworn we were getting close to being right but instead of being sure, I'm all unsure again..................[8-)] [;-)]







[/quote]I beg your pardon.  I don't speak or write like this (as, if you read my post I'm sure you know) and neither do 99% of the marketing professionals I have worked with.  So called business gurus, influenced by get rich quick merchants, do talk like this but even they must do it well because some seem to make millions out of unsuspecting punters!  But this is not marketing in the true sense.

If you run a business and it's successful then you market it.  You can't avoid it.  When you choose a property in the first place you ask yourself if it's in a place people would like to stay - that's marketing. You ask yourself how much you can reasonably charge and still make the profit you want - that's marketing.  When you ask yourself whether a room should have double or twin beds - that's marketing because you're trying to please the kind of customers your after. When you ask yourself where you should advertise to tell the right people who'll actually want to stay there - that's marketing.  When you ask yourself if you should put out a few tea-bags, sugar, perhaps a bottle of wine etc for your customers' arrival - that's marketing. Should you provide a bar-b-q, bikes etc - that's marketing. Should cleaning be an extra, or included in the price? - that's marketing.  You may not label it as such but that may just be because your definition is skewed by those who don't understand what marketing is.  But believe me, doing it well pays dividends, and not just for those who provide sound advice on the subject.

And before you ask, I'm retired so this is not a plug!

[YCCMB]

Cooperlola, welcome to the world of "people whose day jobs are not always held in high regard by others" I've done quite a few of those jobs in my time, believe me! I admit (no offence to you whatsoever) to one of my biggest bugbears being an aversion to people who feel the need to describe themselves as "professionals". That stems from spending a bit of time working in HR, where everyone insists on using "HR Professionals" as a sort of collective noun, and as if somewhere there exists a group of "HR Amateurs" anxious to steal their jobs. Anyway, marketing. A little story...true, too. I used it myself to illustrate the point that customers are, above all, different, and that marketing is OK as long as you don't fall into the trap of believing that you always know who your customers are, what they want, and why. 

Ford Motors apparently used to (and may still) get ordinary members of the public to pop into their factories with their cars, where the technical bods could chat to these customers about why they'd actually bought the vehicles, and what they found good or bad about them.A very smart move, designed to learn more about the success of their marketing strategy in identifying their target customer and meeting his needs. On one occasion, a bloke turned up with his Mondeo Estate, and was being chatted to by someone from engineering about why he'd chosen the car. Was it the new, improved gearbox? The A/C as standard? The heated front screen? So much thought had gone into these latest developments and refinements, surely the customer must have been influenced in his choice by these? Nope, he's chosen the model solely because he had a long-haired Golden Retriever and had found that , among all the competitive models, the only one with carpet from which all the dog hairs could be removed by vacuuming was the Mondeo.

Of course we all do marketing. There is, however, a point at which we all have to face the reality that people are different, and don't all necessarily fall into our "target group" or correspond to our profile of the ideal customer. It seems to me that most of the seasoned B&B and Gite owners on here have come to terms with this, having recognised it long ago. Were I in their shoes, and living "over the shop" I'd thank God for a place like this to come and let off a bit of steam, because on a day-to-day basis, as anyone who has worked in sales knows only too well, the job would be a breeze if it wasn't for the b****y customers!!!!!Maybe the person to whom you ought to be addressing some of your comments is the lovely Pun, who seems to be falling into the trap of assuming that "people" are all going to conform to a single stereotype...........[;-)]

[Pun]

Hello Kathyc,

Thanks for your reply,

You know people on these threads can make you sound like Simon cowel (the x factor) fame, no matter what you say or how you say it they are more than willing to twist and turn it into any thing but common sense,

Well Kathy I happen to like Simon cowel and judge Judy (sky t.v.) as they are both one offs very good at what they do and we,ve all heard of them

"Love them or hate them"

I myself do care very much about the customer But to give a good anything you must have a plan and offer that plan in the beginning via the Introduction information ie terms/conditions.

Please let me explain, a couple of years ago we went on holiday to the U.S.A.  3 weeks, now on the return trip we had 2 planes to catch, the first left at 6am usa time and the last plane usa time left at 3pm, we had to sit around the air port for 7 hours, we had to get up in the morning of the last day at 4-30 and into a taxi to the air port.  No laying in till 10 or 11am

All this was for our own good, we knew this pri booking and on arrival at the usa. ranch everything was as promised and as the terms and condition we ,d signed for.

What im trying to say is this, to give a continuing good service the customer comes first every time, But when you have a customer coming in and one going out, you must ensure that you have every thing working together and allowing for any problems that need sorting tobe sorted pri the new arrivals.

Its the ones going out that more than not will leave you with any problem rather than the one coming in that you,ve not yet met.

I wouldnt like to load a family arriving with any problem left from the people leaving and to give both myself and wife the time to "ensure" we gave it our best shot, we need the time to do the job,

We have said all charges will be included, hot tub, pool, childrens purpose built play area bar,b.q. gardens you,d die for, sky t.v. video pool table,

security of ground ie gated entrance, home fully smoke alarmed, bikes plus adult att,d childs carrage, and a French home that looks and feels french,

window box,s hanging basket,s etc etc, All this isnt a 30 min make over as some Gite owners seem to think or have said on this very thread.

Kathy, all this on change over takes time to both clean 100% ie we dont like floors cleaned by mopping, "Why" because we know its cleaner safer to use a wet and dry machine, this machine lifts the scrubed dirty water up "hence" your not spreading dirt around the floor you,ve just lifted it into a machine that will be emptied and the floor will be dried and then buffed, It not only smells clean but is clean,

Kathy 2 questions, (1) did you know this method of cleaning? (2) what method would you pre/ used if you was going to select tobe used meth  1 or 2

This is why having run our own company for years want to clean the Gite every time and not want or expect the customer to spend valued holiday time doing any hand over cleaning..

All cleaning materials ie vacuume cleaner (new bag every hand over) cleaning agents will be there for the use of the customer if they feel they,,d like to use during the stay, but thats the only reason

Well Kathy I hope this has given you a feel for my feelings ref the customer and why sometimes some conditions are made and it is all for our customers

enjoyment, If  they decide no we dont like your conditions, fine, we, do understand and feel no  bad feelings on our part.

Now back to my Simon Cowel like feeling some people put me in,  "Can you sing kathy, can you dance???? Do you have the GITE FACTOR????

 

I DO.

 

Regards Pun.

[Cassis]

I give in.  I can't remember what Kathy said and I can't follow this any more!

My final word - and another cliché - there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Byee!

[Dick Smith]

OK Pun - you have it your way, ignore all advice and let us know how (and when) it goes.

[Pun]

Hello Croixblanches

Thats one hell of a name you,ve got.

But welcome and thank you for that truly interesting intro,

Its funny you saying about fords and the dog story, Try this one I can vouch this is true, When I had the cleaning company a few years ago now I was asked to go to vauxhall,s factory in Ellsmereport on the wirral,

While I was there the person showing me the canteen area that was tobe cleaned throughout the night shift noticed I was driving a ford and asked me why,

I replied no reason really, so he said let me show you around the works and you,ll see one of our cars being made from start to end,

as we walked around I noticed these letter type box,s with the words suggestion,s,

I asked what this was all about, He opened the box and a pile of Mars bar used paper fell out,

He said it was them upstairs who thought by having these all over the factory floor soneone would come up with a million  pound company saving idea.

And did they I asked,

Yes he replied, we use to have a lot of waste ref chrome changing colour if it was completed, so one chap said via the suggestion box why not leave the chrome work in distilled water over the weekend and it will be ready to continue tobe worked at the start of the next shift!

Well he saved the company thousands if not millions over the years, they had a big get together in this very canteen to present him with his reward,

 

How much I asked???

£1000, and a lot of overtime was never worked in that area of the factory again, So now all we gat in these box,s is this "waste paper.

I can assure you Im not falling into any trap, if you want to have a holiday and be looked after with your interest first middle and last???

and a owner who is on hand but not in your face and has the forsight not tobe asking daft questions  after the event.

give us a try.

[Blanche Neige]

Crikey......................................Wot was all that about then?[8-)]

[Miki]

[quote] I give in.  I can't remember what Kathy said and I can't follow this any more!

My final word - and another cliché - there's more than one way to skin a cat.[/quote]

Huh, thought you were made of sterner stuff, call yourself a B&B

patron !!.... So a few of us old gitistes and chambreristes ride on

alone,  to learn and take on board all the new stuff we had no

idea we didn't know, to be able to be in the biz.

I am almost but not totally confused here, I understand very little now

of what is being spoken but I am determined all these clichés will not

beat me and I will hang on in there until blankness becomes light and I

ain't gonna tell you when it dawns on me either, Cassis !! [:P]