IMPORTANT NEWS RE HEALTHCARE

[cooperlola]

See

http://www.french-property.com/newsletter/2007/11/5/

[Benjamin]

This is what the page says:

 

Document not found

[Steve Roberts]

Seems to be working fine now:

http://www.french-property.com/newsletter/2007/11/5/

Steve

[Benjamin]

Thanks Steve. There's a slight difference in the address shown by you as to that given by Cooperlola.

Let's all keep our fingers crossed.

[cooperlola]

Sorry, I got the heads-up pre-publication, but it does work now.

[Helen]

That sounds promising for those not on 106s.

 I wonder if the complexity of the situation of people with ALDs and others not able to get comprehensive insurance has made 'retrospective' changes untenable. After all can you charge 8% of a household income yet only insure one person  etc etc? 

Jim Murphy did say in his webchat that they were pressing for changes not to be retrospective.

It will be an administrative nightmare given all these letters that they have been sending out

[ams]

Excellent news if it turns out to be factual.

 

ams

[cooperlola]

The source is generally reliable, but even they are being very cautious about this until it actually happens.  We live in hope.

[LisaJ]

Feels very hard on those of us on E106s, though. We would then effectively be discriminated against for having paid National Insurance contributions in the UK. People who arrived 3 months ago without a history of contributions could be in the CMU and allowed to stay and we, who have lived here for two years, would have to pay private health insurance. Doesn't feel like natural justice or something the British Government would wish to promote.

regards

Lisa

[Ron Avery]

That is a very valid point Lisa, and it needs highlighting.

I suspect if the news of the current membership of the CMU can be continued is correct, or even if the 5 year rule was to be invoked, a lot of the steam will go out of this issue as it affects very few people.  That said aren't people on E 106s technically in the CMU any way although they do not pay into it?  You still have a CMU attestation don't you?

[Maricopa]

Unfortunately Ron, with an E106 (your means of paying for health care), you are a member of your local CPAM (your healthcare provider), and then continue paying for your membership of your healthcare provider via CMU, when your E106 expires.  So whilst on an E106, you aren't using CMU.[:(]

[LisaJ]

Yes we have an attestation and a Carte Vitale. I think we were told that there are about 7,000 holders of the E106 at the moment, so I guess about half might run out in January.

regards

Lisa

[Sunday Driver]

Softly, softly catchee monkey....

If this concession for current CMU affiliated residents is agreed, then the case for excluding current  E106 holding residents (ie, people who have made the move under the previous legislation with the expectation of receiving ongoing health insurance cover) is surely weakened.

The new certificate of residence which is due to be introduced will provide an ideal cut-off for new arrivals, leaving those already here under an E106 with a good case for being included in the concession.

 

[Deimos]

[quote user="LisaJ"]

Feels very hard on those of us on E106s, though ....

[/quote]

Seems to me that the new possibility is still retrospective, just not to quite as many people.  As you say, if you moved to France "in good faith" having done all your research, etc. then you may now be well stuffed.  Given that the 5 year rule applies (which they have little choice about as there is no way they can make a "special case", giving the non-French EU citizens a better deal than the French), then all this they have gone through is to put a few people in a difficult position for generally 3 years, issuing a Carte Vitale, taking it back just to re-issue it a few year later.  Seems more grief than it is worth.

If they really wanted to stop people using the CMU then I would have thought the best way would be to introduce it for people yet to move here and with the new residence certificate things - maybe too sensible for the French government.  This issue and the way the FR gov. are handling it really has made me appreciate that France really does not have much of a future.  It's economy will continue to stagnate, etc. and just gradually decline.

I'm still on the E106 cover until Jan, but then only have one year before permanent residency so, if they ever publish PHI requirements that can be met, I've only got to have private cover for a year.

Ian

[EDIT: My post crossed with SD's]

[Cranachan8]

Hi

If this news proves to be correct, then I'm in the ridiculous position of now regretting ever applying for my E106! 

I'm married to a French National and we moved to France in April this year, all of us under my E106 (since MOH didn't have a job to go to).  He found work and has been working (CDI then temping) since May on SMIC - he can't decide what he wants to do now he is back in France.

Our local CPAM office have told us that while my husband is covered for health care because he is working, mine is being funded by my E106.  (Our dual-nationality children are covered by either of us - e.g. if I use my Carte Vitale, the UK pay (under the E106) but if my husband uses his then this is covered by his affiliation to CMU).

This all sounds absolutely fine, albeit a little strange, at the moment because as soon as my E106 runs out (Jan 2009), I would be become his dependent as far as CPAM, CMU etc are concerned. 

However, given what the CPAM lady has told me, this implies to me that, should he die the day before my E106 runs out, then I will be regarded as a non-french-national "inactif" (despite looking after 2 children, 5 and 2yrs) and have to find private health care for me (my children will be covered by CMU as they are dual-nationality)!

If I had never applied for the E106, I wouldn't be in this position.  In hindsight, perhaps I should have taken the risk with my family's health and moved with no healthcare provisions until MOH had found work, then I would have been affliated to CMU!

BTW If the news proves true, I am happy for those "inactifs" that are already affiliated in that they don't need to worry about this anymore!

Rant over....sorry

Cran

 

 

 

[cooperlola]

Chranachan 8, I can't help wondering if you couldn't ask the DWP to send you your E106 termination letter a bit early?  Worth a try - they're pretty understanding when I talk to them.

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="Maricopa"]Unfortunately Ron, with an E106 (your means of paying for health care), you are a member of your local CPAM (your healthcare provider), and then continue paying for your membership of your healthcare provider via CMU, when your E106 expires.  So whilst on an E106, you aren't using CMU.[:(][/quote]

or are you? Is  the healthcare provider CPAM or the CMU? If it is CPAM then how were people on E 121s to be allowed to continue in the CMU?  

I think SD is right, there may well be further changes provided the residency and income criteria can be met.

[Cranachan8]

Cooperlola,

Thank you for your reply.

I hadn't thought of contacting the UK to give up my health care rights under the E106.   I will certainly explore this with the DWP, and hope that CPAM accepts it!

Ty

Cran

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

[quote user="Maricopa"]Unfortunately Ron, with an E106 (your means of paying for health care), you are a member of your local CPAM (your healthcare provider), and then continue paying for your membership of your healthcare provider via CMU, when your E106 expires.  So whilst on an E106, you aren't using CMU.[:(][/quote]

or are you? Is  the healthcare provider CPAM or the CMU? If it is CPAM then how were people on E 121s to be allowed to continue in the CMU?  

I think SD is right, there may well be further changes provided the residency and income criteria can be met.

[/quote]

CPAM is the caisse (ie, insurance office) which manages the general health fund and the CMU health fund.

When you join the system under the E106, CPAM register you with the general fund.  Once your E106 expires, CPAM send you an application form to join the CMU fund. They assess your income and notify the social security collections agency (URSSAF) of the amount of quarterly cotisations to be collected.

Once you notify CPAM that you now have an E121, they cancel your CMU registration, close your URSSAF account and transfer you to back to the general fund.

 

Cranachan8':

You are currently in the general fund under your E106.  According to that press article, the proposed concession for remaining with CMU cover may only apply to those already CMU registered as at 30 September 2007. As you are not yet in the CMU, then you could be excluded.

However, given that excluding existing E106 holders would continue to discriminate against established residents, we'll have to wait for the official details to emerge.

 

[krusty]

SD you mention CPAM send a form when E106 expires , do they do it automatically or do you have to chase them for it ?

I suppose my question is irrelevant , in future they will not be sending it [:(]

[Sunday Driver]

The answer - for theoretical purposes only....[:(]

Your case file will come up for review a month or so before your E106 expires.  CPAM will then send you a letter asking you if you are able to provide a renewal E106.  You then write back, telling them that you can't renew it and you enclose a copy of your DWP 'refusal to renew' letter.  CPAM then send you the necessary form to apply for CMU cover.

Dependent upon their workload, you may experience a delay in receiving your new CMU attestation, but your health cover will remain in place and your carte vitale will still function as normal.

 

[sunshine 2]

Sunday Driver - although what you say about CPAM sending out letters about a month before E106 expires (under normal circumstances) makes sense - I can assure you it does not happen in all areas.  Maybe it should happen but it doesn't. We certainly never received a letter, and we met several people who did not realise that they needed to do anything when E106 date was up - naively thought they were already in the system and that someone would send a bill sooner or later - they only found out they were without any cover because Carte Vitale stopped working.  We forsee that some people on E106's do not even know yet that there is a problem and they may not find out until they need their Carte Vitale in January.

[Deimos]

I remember ages ago I posted a response to somebody commenting that, whilst there is a lot of bureaucracy in France, the French are actually quite good at it.  I was wrong.

Ian

[cooperlola]

We were certainly never informed when our E106's were about to expire.  I only did the CMU entry stuff  because the expiry date was in my diary!

[Ron Avery]

Neither can you rely on the UK DWP to send out the letter telling you that your E 106 has expired.  I didn't get one and phoned up to be told that "they no longer send them unless requested", when I posted that on here I was told by others that their letter had arrived without any request, so it seems like the CPAMs in France, it all depends who you deal with and who you talk to.