Lobbying !

[cooperlola]

Mrs B. It's difficult to assess how many French preretraites belong to the CMU as many are covered by retirement schemes.  However anybody who complies with the conditions may benefit and pay in.  HERE'S the low-down.  So many pre-retraites must qualify under these conditions!

Also you could confidently argue, imo, that as we are being told, that after 5 years' residency then even we will qualify again (UK government's own advice) then most French people living here presumably have been here that long and will qualify equally.

QED he's talking through his ill-informed hat, imo.

I'm trying to work on a sensible reply, based on the above, but if you get there first, please pm me!

Thanks.

[makfai]

I have prepared a document outlining arguments against the French Governement's decision to apply the new residency rules to existing residents.

Anyone who wants a copy please send me an email with your email address.

[rothrugby]

Hi Everyone,

Please continue to VOTE

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/healthinFrance/

Regards

[Glyn]

I have received similar replys as the following from several MEP's that I have written to:-

Thank you for your e-mail regarding health coverage for British citizens resident in France.

 

You may not be aware that European constituencies were reorganised following the 1999 European elections, and MEPs were elected under a proportional representation system. Having opposed the proportional system, the four Conservative MEPS in the South East region have divided the area into four sub-constituencies, to guarantee a more direct representation for the people of the South East region. This decision means that James Elles represents the Buckinghamshire, Berkshire and Oxfordshire area for the party.

Daniel Hannan MEP is the Conservative representative for West Sussex.  I have, therefore, forwarded your correspondence to him for his information.

It is interesting that even though they were opposed to the electorial changes that they mention they still felt that they should be elected under it in 2004.

Does anyone know if there is some sort of European Parliament Ombudsman that their actions can be reported to as I really believe that it is unconstututional and immoral. Par for the course really[;-)]

[Helen]

I wrote to all my MEPS except for UKIP on the 22nd Sept. The only reply so far is From Daniel Hannan with a similar wording to yours  telling me that James Elles represents Bucks etc:  no response from James Elles.

[Suninfrance]

Likewise no response from James Elles - Bucks

[Bertiebe]

You might be interested (or not) in the following reply I received from one of my MEPs.  Apparently, we have put his nose out of joint by not crediting him on the Declaration that was proposed by Mary Honeyball and Bill Newton Dunn!!

 

"It is not "by Mary Honiball".   It is by her and me jointly!!

Bill Newton Dunn"

Anyone petitioning their MEPs might like to add his name along with Mary's.

 

[cooperlola]

Good point, Bertiebe, will watch out for that, thanks.

[rothrugby]

Hi,

Just recieved the following from ECAS

Dear Sir,

 

The situation is known in Brussels and is currently subject to discussions between the EU authorities and the French ones. Our orgnaisation is also going to send a complaint to the EU Commission.

For the moment, our point of view is the following:

Under Regulation 1408/71 (EU regulation on social security) workers and pensioners, as well as the members of their family, residing in a Member State other than the one in which they work or which pays their pension, are entitled to sickness benefits in the Member State of residence under the same conditions as a national of this Member State, but on behalf of the Member State where they work or which pays their pension.

We  draw your attention to the fact that Regulation 1408/71 only covers workers (employed and self-employed), students, civil servants, pensioners and the members of their family and their survivors. However, European citizens, who do not fall under any of these categories, e.g. post-active persons who are not - yet - entitled to a statutory pension, would not be covered by Regulation 1408/71. In such cases, only national legislation applies. So France is free to organise its social security system.

Under Directive 2004/38, inactive Union citizens must have sufficient resources not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State, and comprehensive sickness insurance coverage in the host Member State. Following the acquisition of the permanent right of residence (normally after five consecutive years of legal residence) these conditions are no longer applicable.  Furthermore, the Directive provides that Union citizens shall enjoy equal treatment with the nationals of that State within the scope of the Treaty establishing the European Community. Personally, I think that the breach of the French system is here.

We know that the EU Commission services will contact the French authorities in order to obtain detailed information about the French legislation on the "CMU" and examine its compatibility with Community law.

Of course I encourage you introduce a formal complaint with the EU Commission, to put more pressure on the administrations. 

I hope this information is useful. Do not hesitate to contact me if you need further information. And as soon as I get more result I will inform you.

Best regards

 

Claire Damilano

Legal Officer

ECAS

rue du Prince Royal, 83

1050 Bruxelles

Tel: +32.2.512.59.68

Fax: +32.2.511.90.87

Website: www.ecas.org

 

 

[rothrugby]

By the way ,forgot to ask. Is anyone doing a Formal Complaint to the EU yet as suggested by ECAS.

[cooperlola]

You have PM.  We will follow this up.[:)]

[makfai]

[quote user="rothrugby"]

Hi,

Just received the following from ECAS

Dear Sir,

 .......

Best regards

 Claire Damilano etc

[/quote]

 

What I can't figure out is why, in these replies from ECAS we have not had a straight answer yet on the appropriateness of the application of the rules to existing residents.  They talk round the point all the time but don't give a straight answer.

The inequality mentioned here is based, I assume, on Article 24 of the Directive which says:

1. Subject to such specific provisions as are expressly provided for in the Treaty and secondary law, all Union citizens residing on the basis of this Directive in the territory of the host Member State shall enjoy equal treatment with the nationals of that Member State within the scope of the Treaty. The benefit of this right shall be extended to family members who are not nationals of a Member State and who have the right of residence or permanent residence.

What I don't understand is why the words 'Subject to such specific provisions as are expressly provided for in the Treaty and secondary law,' cannot be used by the French Govt to excuse any 'inequality' created by this Directive.  Is it not 'secondary law'?  So saying any challenge is a good challenge in my book!

[Clair]

I have posted a message on the Telegraph's Expat messageboard in reply to message nº745.

Although the message is reviewed before appearing on line, it might be worth others making contributions.

The more the problem is mentioned, the more likely the eventual coverage in the paper...

Edit:

another messageboard: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/Mentor for France

[cooperlola]

Mary Honeyball and Bill Newton Dunn's declaration to the European parliament re the health issues is gathering momentum - now amongst other European representatives, outside the UK.  Her office received this today:

"I would like to congratulate to you for the written declaration concerning
the medical services in the EU. I will indeed support it and do my best in
order to make as many deputies as possible sign it.

Best regards

Mr. Aldo PATRICIELLO
European Parliament"

[Clair]

Is there a link to that declaration?

I have had a (quick) look at the European Parliament site but foudn it a bit bewildering...[8-)]

Edit: found it! I had to look under Mary Honeyball's activities.Its ref number is a P-4833/07 and it can be seen here: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+WQ+P-2007-4833+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN&language=EN

Next question: is there a way we can track its support?

[cooperlola]

I'll try to get a link up, but here it is

<EntPE>EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT</EntPE>

2004

2009

<Date>{16/01/2006}1.10.2007</Date>                                                                                                                   <NoDocSe>XXXX/2006</NoDocSe>

<TitreType>WRITTEN DECLARATION</TitreType>

<TitreRecueil>pursuant to Rule 116 of the Rules of Procedure</TitreRecueil>

by Mary Honeyball, Proinsias De Rossa, Bill Newton Dunn<Depute>Marm</Depute>

<Titre>on health care provision for European Citizens residing in another Member State. </Titre>

Lapse date: XXX/XXX<DateForclusion>{16/04/2006}</DateForclusion>

 

 

XXXX/2007

Written declaration on health care provision for European Citizens residing in another Member State

The European Parliament,

–    having regard to Rule 116 of its Rules of Procedure,

A.  whereas EU law upholds the right to freedom of movement and freedom of residence across the European Union,

B.   whereas access to health care is fundamentally important to all citizens

1.   Recognises the fundamental principle of reciprocity of health care provision across the European Union,

2.   Expresses grave concern that some EU citizens not born in France but legally resident there are being denied state health care provision despite paying all relevant taxes,

3.   Recognises that private health care may not be available or affordable for citizens with disabilities or those with existing conditions,

4.   Calls on Member States to uphold the principle of reciprocity of health care provision; further calls on Member States not to make changes to health care provision that will deny EU citizens, who are non-nationals access to state health care,

5.   Calls on the European Commission to undertake a review of the manner in which Member States generally are operating the principal of reciprocity of health care provision to ensure that all Member States are complying with their obligations under the Treaties in this regard,

6.   Instructs its President to forward this declaration, together with the names of the signatories, to the Council, the Commission and the governments and parliaments of the Member States.

 

[makfai]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

I'll try to get a link up, but here it is

[/quote]

Clare said:

Is there a link to that declaration?
I have had a (quick) look at the European Parliament site but foudn it a bit bewildering...

Edit: found it! I had to look under Mary Honeyball's activities.Its ref number is a P-4833/07 and it can be seen here: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+WQ+P-2007-4833+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN&language=EN

Next question: is there a way we can track its support?

---

Clair, a Real Virtual French Person

This links only to a question.  The Declaration is available from French Health Issues

http://www.frenchhealthissues.eu/more_info/marys_declaration.htm

[cooperlola]

Thanks Frank. I have now put the link in the "Useful Links and Websites" thread.[:)]

[Clair]

I have seen that, I simply wanted a link to include in any correspondance with MEPs.

Is there a way to track how many MEPs are siging on to support the declaration?

[cooperlola]

Coming shortly![:-))]

[cooperlola]

Sadly, no names here, only numbers, and this is not updated daily.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/activities/expert/writtenDecl/wdFastOngoing.do?language=EN

However, we're working with Mary's office in compiling a "role of honour" for the website.  This should be up and running shortly.  At least 6 signatures have been added in the last 24 hours, and I'm getting more reports of sympathetic MEPs all the time.

Will keep you posted.

Edit : List now added, see :

http://www.frenchhealthissues.eu/latest_news/growing%20support%2024-10.htm

[cooperlola]

The number has just increased to 25... slowly slowly....

[Suninfrance]

Not entirely sure that the response I have had from my MEP and the attachment he sent is very helpful to our cause.

Thank you for your letter regarding the changes in health

coverage for UK citizens in France.

I have contacted my colleague, John

Bowis MEP, who is the Conservative Spokesperson on Health and Consumer Affairs,

regarding your concerns. Attached you will find his reply.

Trusting this information is of

interest to you.

With best wishes,

James Elles

MEP

Conservative Member - South-East

Region

Reply from John Bowis MEP:

                       

Thank you very much for your recent letter

about the French Government’s decision to restrict access to free health and

social security benefits.  As I

understand the proposal, it would cover not only foreign residents in France

but French nationals too and it does not affect people who have retired at

retirement age and are living in France. 

President Sarkozy apparently said that he had no objection to people to

retiring early but they could not expect French taxpayers to pay for them to do

so.

 

I think this is compatible with EU law.  It is similar to the rule in the UK, where

non-British citizens are expected to pay for treatment they have in this

country – or to have insurance that covers this.  The problem is that British hospitals and clinics have often not

bothered to claim from such patients. In many EU countries, you will be

expected to sign the appropriate form to take responsibility for payment before

you are treated.

 

In practice the British rule has also been

that, if someone presents with an infectious disease, it is in our national

interest that they should be treated without charge but for a non-infectious

disease or condition they should be expected to pay.

 

[cooperlola]

|Helpful, maybe not but definately contestible.  As you have at least got a reply, we can suggest a response, if you're interested?  Clearly half these people don't even understand the rules which govern the NHS, let alone, EU legislation. [email protected]

Humph.

[Suninfrance]

A suggested reply would be most welcome please.

Thanks.