rothrugby Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Hi,Just a point. having read the Article L122-1 which says " le ressortissant vise a l'article L121-1 qui a reside de maniere legale et ininterrompue en France pendant cinq annees precedentes acquiert un droit au sejour permenent sur l'ensemble du territoire francais" I read this as acquiring residency status after 5 years, not citizenship. I think it's important to understand the difference. One has to apply for citizenship, it is not automatically granted. Once granted, you can vote in French elections and to all intents and purposes, you are French. Please note the above only applies if you are not considered to be a menace to public order! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Absolutely, Rothrugby. One little point though, you have dual nationality, not just French, post acceptance as a citizen. But it's the voting rights which have always interested me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I seem to remember that when similar changes were implemented in Spain there was a program on UK television highlighting the plight of those affected. I cannot remember what channel it was on and who presented it but maybe someone else can.If so perhaps they can post the details and it might be worth contacting the production company to see if they would be interested on a follow up program from France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makfai Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 I have received a reply from one of the MEPs (Gary Titley) to whom I wrote. He has said that this is 'a very important issue' and he has received correspondence from not only me. He has written (copied to me) to Jim Murphy the Minister for Europe to seek clarification of the French position and the UK's reaction to it particularly in regard to the rules being applied to existing residents.If anyone would like a copy of the letters then please email/pm me with your email address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 I got my response onto Jim Murphy's blog this morning:http://blogs.fco.gov.uk/blogs/jim_murphy/archive/2007/09/26/13661.aspx#commentsColin is also "one of us"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makfai Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 [quote user="cooperlola"]I got my response onto Jim Murphy's blog this morning:http://blogs.fco.gov.uk/blogs/jim_murphy/archive/2007/09/26/13661.aspx#commentsColin is also "one of us"![/quote] Well done! I have just sent in mine............why don't we all do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaJ Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 It would be nice if Jim Murphy had a bit more to say though - it makes an interesting comparison with David Miliband's blog (which I understand he really does write himself.)http://blogs.fco.gov.uk/blogs/david_miliband/regardsLisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 You are right, Lisa. The lack of any response from this blog is a bit depressing. As DM's is rather good, I wonder if we might bring up the point on there about the communications from the Embassy in Paris - making the point about the mis-information, and the fact that we get passed off to a French department which doesn't know the rules either. Not the way British Citizens (and voters!) should be treated IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 As expected I have just recieved an anti EU tirade from the assistant of Nigel Farage (Leader of the UK Independence Party) in response to my e-mail outlining the health system changes.Interesting that it was automatically moved to my Junk mail folder[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 [quote user="Glyn"]As expected I have just recieved an anti EU tirade from the assistant of Nigel Farage (Leader of the UK Independence Party) in response to my e-mail outlining the health system changes.Interesting that it was automatically moved to my Junk mail folder[:D][/quote]Mmm, I got one too. Seems like fraud to me that these people are paid by an institution they so dispise. What an intuitive junk mail folder you have there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makfai Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 [quote user="cooperlola"]You are right, Lisa. The lack of any response from this blog is a bit depressing. As DM's is rather good, I wonder if we might bring up the point on there about the communications from the Embassy in Paris - making the point about the mis-information, and the fact that we get passed off to a French department which doesn't know the rules either. Not the way British Citizens (and voters!) should be treated IMHO.[/quote] Excellent idea and that would open the door for more of us to 'chip-in' with our comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makfai Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 [quote user="cooperlola"]Done.[/quote] Excellent..........glad you hurt your leg! As soon as the post appears on the site I will chip-in with another bit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 At the moment I am using a scatter gun approach with my lobying. Writing e-mails to MP's and MEP's listing all the areas of the changes that I feel that are unjust. However I am wondering if we should be concentrating on those areas that we have the best chance of changing.I think it is highly unlikely that the changes will be dropped completely so perhaps we have the best chance of changing the legislation so that it is not applied retrospectively to existing residents. To achieve this it is likely going to require the EU to put pressure on the French government.Secondly we need to ensure that the 5 year residency rule is confirmed together with clear rules as to how it will be implemented.In the longer term the UK government needs to ensure reciprocal arrangements are made for its citizens to receive healthcare wherever they reside within the EU. I know that I may be rambling a bit but I find that in these times just putting my thoughts down in words seems to relieve the stress slightly[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Glyn if you are interested in a more structured approach to this then please pm me. A group of us are trying to put something together and we'd welcome more input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 [quote user="makfai"] [quote user="cooperlola"]Done.[/quote]......glad you hurt your leg! [/quote]Oh, ta.[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 If I may give my opinion as an "outsider" (I dont live in France or UK at the moment).Looking coldly at the situation you are a group of immigrants trying to change the publicised Government plans. No Govt can afford to backtrack on such an issue. They would alienate their electorate.I think the point of attack should be to isolate one aspect and hammer away at that. The logical (to me anyway) point is the inhumanity of withdrawing state medical cover from those who, due to existing medical history, will not be able to get private medical insurance. They are the ones who are, by any measure in the civilised World, being forced into an untenable situation. Its no good expecting a total capitulation on all aspects but the "lack of humanity" aspect may give the French Govt some "space" to grant a concession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 P/D, in a lot of places, this is the best approach, that's for sure - it's the old hearts and minds thing. And it's potentially what could happen to anybody whose healthcare is in the hands of profit-making insurance companies in the future. All input gratefully received and all opinions welcome - "outsider" or not (and I'm sure we don't think of you as one! Makfai doesn't live here - yet - but he's giving it his all!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Coop,Why didn't I think of the Hearts and Minds phrase?. A tug at the heartstrings is usually a good way to get support, plus the implied accusation of uncaring inhumanity. It may even get the French public behind it - maybe ( I wouldn't hold your breath though on that one).Unfortunately I cant lobby MPs etc, I dont have one, or an MEP for that matter. I somehow dont think the local Arab Govt would be interested. [:(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickel Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 I agree with Glyn I was under the impression - maybe misapprehension - that in general laws and statutes should apply prospectively and not retrospectively, well I believe this to be the case in criminal law! I am no lawyer and have no legal knowledge ( so I may have this all wrong) but understood a country such as France with its "déclaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen" would not find it easy to pass such legislation ??Maybe there is a case to challenge on legal grounds a retrospective ruling that is without doubt going to be a cause of hardship for many people?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzer Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Could I ask how long it took to get a reply. I have emailed my 5 MEP's(25 Sept) with absolutely no response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 That's fairly standard, Jazzer - many haven't. We're having a lot more luck with some though. We should be "up and running" shortly, and hopefully will then be able to give you a bit more solid info' about the best people/means of approach and the things which are beginning to work.P/D : Does that mean that you no longer have the right to vote in the UK. For us in Europe you can vote by proxy or post for years after you move - in your old constituency. I'm surprised that doesn't apply to you.Nickel : This is an approach we are looking at. There are several legal avenues we could go down, but it's a matter of sifting through the legislation and sorting what's viable and what isn't.Anybody who wants to know more, or can help us, please e-mail me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 [quote user="cooperlola"]P/D : Does that mean that you no longer have the right to vote in the UK. For us in Europe you can vote by proxy or post for years after you move - in your old constituency. I'm surprised that doesn't apply to you.[/quote]I have been out of UK (this time) for 16 years. I assumed that I would have lost voting rights, I havn't actually checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 If I have been correctly informed, you can vote for 15 years afterwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 [quote user="makfai"][quote user="cooperlola"]You are right, Lisa. The lack of any response from this blog is a bit depressing. As DM's is rather good, I wonder if we might bring up the point on there about the communications from the Embassy in Paris - making the point about the mis-information, and the fact that we get passed off to a French department which doesn't know the rules either. Not the way British Citizens (and voters!) should be treated IMHO.[/quote] Excellent idea and that would open the door for more of us to 'chip-in' with our comments[/quote]It's therehttp://blogs.fco.gov.uk/blogs/david_miliband/archive/2007/09/26/13660.aspx#commentsGet on it, you lot![:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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