max Posted January 17, 2008 Author Share Posted January 17, 2008 yes krusty it is sour grapesbut it looks like some of you might have to work too.max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 [quote user="max"]helloi do not know anything about diabetes but dose it stop you from working a few hours taching the local school english? you are then on the systemmax[/quote]You are correct. Assuming you can get a job at 60! You may not be very good teacher (mind you - I've known a few of those!) Certainly, we have advised people to look at the employment route and many are doing so.I do have a friend in this situation (although he has angina, dvt and hypertension too!) after about half an hour of any sort of activity, he has to sit down and rest. And I wouldn't want him teaching my kids (not that I have any...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 [quote user="max"]but it looks like some of you might have to work too.[/quote]And why not. Of course for each person who does it would mean one less French person being employed. But then it would give the kids more time and excuse to go and burn some more cars.In my opinion early retirement is excellent for everybody. Those that can afford it have a better life whilst (and from the French perspective more importantly) their job becomes available, allowing people to move up through companies and freeing up more jobs for the un-employed. So instead of maying out RMI, putting out fires (the cars burning, etc.) France would get tax, etc. from more employed people, etc. and maybe the economy would start to pick-up a bit.Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 [quote user="max"]yes krusty it is sour grapesbut it looks like some of you might have to work too.max[/quote]I think Max is being very tongue in cheek at best or low key provocative at worst.He certainly hasn't bothered to read any of the past posts on this whole subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted January 17, 2008 Author Share Posted January 17, 2008 deimos saidAnd why not. Of course for each person who does it would mean one less French person being employed. deimos do not worry about the french they are already on the systemmax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted January 17, 2008 Author Share Posted January 17, 2008 benjamin i am sorry for not reading all the past posts on this subject i have been busy at work. i will endeavour to gt up to speed.max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 [quote user="max"]benjamin i am sorry for not reading all the past posts on this subject i have been busy at work. i will endeavour to gt up to speed.max[/quote]Work! How dare you![:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 [quote user="max"]deimos saidAnd why not. Of course for each person who does it would mean one less French person being employed. deimos do not worry about the french they are already on the systemmax[/quote]I think you may have missed my point. France has a big problem - too many un-employed people who need work. To start forcing people to into work just to get health cover - when they financially need no work (and would pay for health cover) is just daft as it makes the already bad employment problem worse. These "inactif" people can afford not to work and are happy to pay to join the system.Allowing people (e.g. French) to retire early if they can afford it frees up jobs and helps ease the dire employment difficulties. All in all a good thing (fewer riots, fewer cars burning, more dynamic economy, etc., etc.) and everybody is happy. Of course you have to think more than half a step ahead for thing like that.Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 [quote user="cooperlola"][quote user="max"] benjamin i am sorry for not reading all the past posts on this subject i have been busy at work. i will endeavour to gt up to speed.max[/quote]Work! How dare you![:D][/quote]And I have drive around my estate in my 4x4 [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 'i do not know anything about diabetes but dose it stop you from working a few hours taching the local school english? you are then on the system'Unfortunately Max it isn't as easy as that even if you have the qualifications. The French education budget has suffered major cuts. I am involved in teaching English to the local children, but I am a benevolé. Many people who find themselves in this situation have moved to rural areas where there is little employment of any sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 [quote user="Deimos"][quote user="max"]deimos saidAnd why not. Of course for each person who does it would mean one less French person being employed. deimos do not worry about the french they are already on the systemmax[/quote]I think you may have missed my point. France has a big problem - too many un-employed people who need work. To start forcing people to into work just to get health cover - when they financially need no work (and would pay for health cover) is just daft as it makes the already bad employment problem worse. These "inactif" people can afford not to work and are happy to pay to join the system.Allowing people (e.g. French) to retire early if they can afford it frees up jobs and helps ease the dire employment difficulties. All in all a good thing (fewer riots, fewer cars burning, more dynamic economy, etc., etc.) and everybody is happy. Of course you have to think more than half a step ahead for thing like that.Ian[/quote]Interesting point. I was discussing the expression "economically inactive" - which is how the EU loves to describe us - with one of my FHI colleagues. I maintain that the one thing I am not is economically inactive, although I might be considered to be physically so! I still generate money and move the economy along, whilst not being a drain on it in any way (the money I'm spending was invested by my employer for this purpose and he - happily - knew what would be required to keep me in the economy but outside the employment market). I'd love to know what would happen, if we all started work here and took jobs from the nation's youth. You could bet there'd be some resentment then. What is more, if my o/h had been French, and in the same job here that he was in in the UK, he'd be retired now anyway. Go figure.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I think there’s a bit of “forum baiting” creeping in.It must not be allowed to distract us from finding solutionsto this messI personally, have no problem with the new legislation. I have a problem with one word “retrospective”Joshua[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert the InfoGipsy Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 [quote user="max"]i do not know anything about diabetes but dose it stop you from working a few hours taching the local school english? you are then on the system[/quote]My ex-wife is a French born native speaker in her mid-fifties. She has been job-hunting in France for months in a town with a population of about 100,000 (not la France profonde!) with no prospect of finding anything. By the way, she is a fully qualified and highly experienced language teacher who could easily teach in a school if they would accept her UK qualifications.As a French citizen she won't be affected by the current rule changes, but it shows that getting a job as a fix for the CMU saga is less than easy. I believe that you also need to show a minimum level of employment, so 'a few hours' isn't necessarily going to solve anything.In respect to the mods I have refrained from ad hominem attacks, but I have an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 [quote user="Albert the InfoGipsy"]In respect to the mods I have refrained from ad hominem attacks, but I have an opinion.[/quote]Much appreciated Albert [:)]Any discussion about the rights or wrongs of "the changes" should be posted in this thread, to keep this information thread for those who want information.Thank you.Forum Moderators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 'Interesting point. I was discussing the expression "economically inactive".......................... if we all started work here and took jobs from the nation's youth. You could bet there'd be some resentment then. 'Under the previous French regulations the right of sejour granted to someone with a pension deliberately, and probably illegally at the time, protected French jobs. My husbands carte de sejour (which ran out only in May) was granted on grounds of resources... a services pension. His carte said 'pensionne', he had no right to work in France. (strangely, my carte did allow' all professional activities') Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 ad hominem eh?Didn't know what it meant as I stopped shortly after amo, amas, amat etc but yes that was what I was trying to get at.Edit: sorry mods but you intervened whilst I was posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 [quote user="Clair"][quote user="Albert the InfoGipsy"] In respect to the mods I have refrained from ad hominem attacks, but I have an opinion.[/quote]Much appreciated Albert [:)]Any discussion about the rights or wrongs of "the changes" should be posted in this thread, to keep this information thread for those who want information.Thank you.Forum Moderators[/quote]Bloomin' 'eck Clair - I thought that this thread (the one I'm posing in now - "started" by Max) was the discussion thread (and your link links to the first page of this thread doesn't it?). It's the other thread that was the factual one isn't it?[:-))][8-)]Edit : Although I see this thread is now about Latin tags...[Www][:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert the InfoGipsy Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 [quote user="Benjamin"]ad hominem eh?Didn't know what it meant as I stopped shortly after amo, amas, amat etc [/quote]The benefit of a classical education [:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groslard Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 [quote user="Albert the InfoGipsy"] she is a fully qualified and highly experienced language teacher who could easily teach in a school if they would accept her UK qualifications.[/quote]This is a much misunderstood area.Qualifications are acepted : for example a Master's degree.But for many posts in France one has to pass a 'concours' after passing the qualification.This is a competitive examination to determine who gets the posts availablePeople with UK qualifications who have not taken this concours are ineligible for employment but not because of their qualifictions, it's because they haven't taken the concours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groslard Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 [quote user="cooperlola"] If France wants to put its health system in the hands of private companies, then of course, it can [/quote]We are back to the old chestnut !The CMU is not the French Health system. That is the Assurance Maladie, and there are several ways into it (working, running a business, Agriculture, being a performing artist etc)The CMU is one recent (since 2000) way in to the system. It is NOT the system.The "Universelle" part has mislead many British people on various fora. It is certainly not 'universal', as the vast majority of people in France are not concerned by it.It was brought in in 2000 for two main groups. 1) A very few French people who had for example worked abroad, so had no cotistastions. This was estimated to be around 36,000 people, and it was for that small group that the CMU de base was introduced.2) A much larger number of the poorest people with no cover for whom the CMU C was introduced.Understanding this is the key to the misinterpretations and misunderstandings that abound.The French government is not privatising the Assurance MaladieThe French government is not preventing access to the Assurance Maladie for British peopleThe French government is closing off one access route to the system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted January 17, 2008 Author Share Posted January 17, 2008 hello groslardyou saidBut for many posts in France one has to pass a 'concours' after passing the qualification.howeveryes you do but this still only gives you access to take a licence and it is this licence that enables you to be installed as a teacher.max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groslard Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 [quote user="max"]hello groslardyou saidBut for many posts in France one has to pass a 'concours' after passing the qualification.howeveryes you do but this still only gives you access to take a licence and it is this licence that enables you to be installed as a teacher.max[/quote]No I'm afraid you are wrong.A 'licence' is a first degree, before a 'Maîtrise' a bit like a BA/BSc then MAWith a degree you then study either externally to take the 'concours'It is called the CAPES (Certificat d'aptitude au professorat de l'enseignement du second degré) and it is success at this, not the licence or Maîtrise that gets you a job as a teacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 groslard i am afraid you are wrong ,a licence or masters whatever, the concour is taken before a course its an entrance test.where did i states what level a licence is. you need to pass a concour to be accepted on the licence course in many cases as with tacher traning.max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 a teacher training course is a licence by the way and the concour allows you (if you pass) on to it. i hope this clears any confusion up. well done with your masters and good luck with your licencemax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maricopa Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Mods, perhaps you could split (again!) this thread to allow max and groslard to battle this conversation out in the earning a living forum[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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