Life after death? (Care-homes)

[Phil&Carole]

My wife and I (both retired) are seriously exploring “living in France”. A major concern of my wife’s is if in later life I die first - what may happen to her? Are there ‘care-homes’ as in the UK? Are they as bad as many of the British ones – and would the language/cost present huge problems. Appreciate it’s rather pessimistic – but it’s a major sticking point at present and comments would be greatly appreciated.

[suzy]

Hi Phil and Carole

 

I don't know about the cost, but I would think hard about the language.  Having worked in the NHS for 20 years I know that elderly people tend to regress (don't we all ?) when unwell and are far more comfortable in their 1st language.  Having said that, my parents had friends who retired to the Algarve, they sold up their large property in their early eighties and moved to an English-run care home and are very happy.  Do such things exist in France, perhaps where there are a lot of expats ?

 

Sue

[Laurier]

Am also very interested in responses to this thread. As you say, not something we want to think of but good to be aware of the options.

Laurier

[5-element]

I haven't exactly firsthand experience - but have explored this issue quite a bit - my mother is 87 (French) and so, going into a care home is one possibility - she lives alone in a small flat and is fiercely independent still - the one possible home near where she is now costs about 1400 euros per month, which I believe is fairly cheap. For this, she would get her own room. Some care homes have shared room facilities, for the people who cannot afford the single room!

I would echo what has been said above about the language - I think it would be a big issue - and not just the language, but also the culture, and the habits that one has. You know how there are differences between the way the French do certain things, and the way those things are done if you are British. Feeding habits, for instance. Cup of tea (non existent here). Many more. Those questions become much, much bigger as one ages, and are what causes problems in many care homes anyway.

I have read a few articles, researched, and watched a few TV documentaries about the shortage of facilities, and of staff - it does look like the problems in the UK are roughly quite similar in France. There are horror stories on both sides of the channel, and on both sides, people who are totally dedicated to trying to look after their elders.

Having a couple of friends who work in those homes here in France, I cannot say I am terribly impressed by what I hear, and in some cases I am quite shocked - but I have been equally shocked by hearing what happened to some friends' parents in the UK.

It is possible that the fees are slightly less in France, although, you get what you are paying for.

One of the big differences is that in France, if the parent does not have enough income to pay for the fee, the state pays a small part, and then the children are legally obliged to pay the rest.

If in your case, money is not and will not be an issue, then please do think very very carefully - unless I spoke the language fluently and was completely at ease with the culture and ways, I certainly would not ever feel comfortable in a home where everyone else is a native and where I am the funny foreigner. Just remember that we get more and more vulnerable as we get older.

[flunch]

I hav'nt heard good things about Brits in care homes in France.    Without fluent French life can be total isolation.       We've had this discussion with friends before........with so many Brits in France, what a good business to start up.    Appreciate France is a vast country so there would have to be a few businesses set-up!      We did hear of a Dutch person doing just that for his fellow countrymen/women.  Before I'm shot down, yes I know people should speak the language but its a fact of life that some people (many people) struggle to cope with more than a few words.

[woolybananasbrother]

Loads of French stick their old fiolks in homes in Belgium cause it is cheaper.

[Will]

[quote user="memb"]

We did hear of a Dutch person doing just that for his fellow countrymen/women. 

[/quote]

I seem to remember a proposed sheltered housing complex for elderly Dutch was discussed on this forum several years ago (too long ago to come up in the search it seems). I don't recall the idea being very well received.

[flunch]

[quote user="Will"][quote user="memb"]

We did hear of a Dutch person doing just that for his fellow countrymen/women. 

[/quote]

I seem to remember a proposed sheltered housing complex for elderly Dutch was discussed on this forum several years ago (too long ago to come up in the search it seems). I don't recall the idea being very well received.

[/quote]

Rumour has it its on the cards now..........but read nothing about it.      

[Patf]

It was only last year.    http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/856369/ShowPost.aspx   The housing units seemed expensive, and I don't think a care home was planned.

[Will]

Thanks Pat - I could have sworn it was longer ago than that.

I'm really not sure what to make of it. I come from a part of England that is very popular for retirement, and we have loads of similar developments, some of which attract the active retired, who do not need care home facilities, but want, I presume, to feel comfortable with their own kind. Others offer independent living, but have quite sophisticated care facilities constantly on hand. Neither of them seem to cause too many problems.

On the one hand I like the idea of people being able to enjoy independence in their old age but with help available if needed, on the other I can see it as a sort of creation of ghettos for the elderly, which put undue strain on the local healthcare systems and upset the demographics of the area. I can see the latter as a bigger problem if the groups of elderly are all foreigners - but I can see that there is a need to provide something for the British in France, most of whom seem to be advancing in age and whose active lifestyle will not last for ever.

[Sprogster]

I seem to recall that a few years ago when France suffered from the last canicule thousands of old people died from the heat, many of whom were in care facilities. Afterwards it was discovered that because of the grande vacances many of these care homes had been left badly understaffed, resulting in adequate care and medical support for the elderly who were struggling with the heat. In some cases apparently elderly people had been abandoned to fend for themselves, as their carers went on holiday. 

This created a big national outcry at the time, with resulting national guilt over the perceived lack of care for its senior citizens. Not sure if matters have improved since.  

[Ron Avery]

"many of whom were in care facilities. Afterwards it was discovered that because of the grande vacances many of these care homes had been left badly understaffed, resulting in adequate care and medical support for the elderly who were struggling with the heat. In some cases apparently elderly people had been abandoned to fend for themselves, as their carers went on holiday." 

Perhaps you can quote where you got this from as its not how it was reported in France at the time or even elsewhere since. Care homes are not common in France and very expensive, so the elderly tend to be looked after in the family.

The elderly that died during the heatwave of 2003 were in the main people living alone or with their families, some of whom had gone away on their holidays, not in care homes and left abandoned by their carers.

A quote from the the UK press at the time said "Stung by criticism from the government and from their President  that they had gone on holiday or just failed to care for their elderly relatives at home, the families were stricken by grief and guilt".

Although hot in summer many parts of France away from the med coast are not equipped for the long period of high temperatures experienced at the time 104f +, homes and care homes were not routinely equipped with air conditioning and the elderly, not used to the extreme heat did not take enough fluids to hydrate themselves and became ill.   These factors,  added to a shortage of GPs and hospital staff who also take holidays in August, led to inadequate medical provision for many of the elderly who could not cope with the high temperatures.

[Will]

Look at this story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3181941.stm

That indicates that a large number of elderly people were not in the care of their families - although it doesn't say so in so many words I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that although many were living alone, some were in care homes. Other stories from the same source suggest problems with hospitals and care facilities: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3091244.stm.

Ron - "homes and care homes were not routinely equipped with air conditioning and the elderly, not used to the extreme heat did not take enough fluids to hydrate themselves and became ill.   These factors,  added to a shortage of GPs and hospital staff who also take holidays in August, led to inadequate medical provision for many of the elderly who could not cope with the high temperatures"

I think that says much the same thing as Sprogster, and the BBC stories above - though I suspect he/she really meant 'inadequate' rather than 'adequate'.

 

[Cendrillon]

In our area I have seen some lovely looking homes for the elderly but have not been inside any of them . I suspect that moving into one these is not a cheap option. (is it ever!) There's also a place for the elderly with little pavillon type houses, restaurant etc. which looks interesting it is in the grounds of an old chateau.

Language could be a problem. I know of a Polish relative (age 102!) of friends of ours (in U.K.) she is in a home in London and will now only speak Russian. Luckily some of the staff are Russian so it is not a serious problem.[:)]

 

Since the Canicule of 2003 I have noticed that the Mairie issues warnings each year telling the elderly how to stay well during very hot weather. I think it gets mentioned on TV news as well.

[flunch]

Was'nt part of the increased GP charges to be set aside to help for future similar occurrences?         I can't see how building care-homes to house Brits / Dutch / etc will create a ghetto type situation.      We are in Europe, and lots of different nationalities are on the move settling all over in Europe.     Its maybe something the EU boffins should be looking in to.     The UK has spent many millions of pounds to aide foreigners with language problems in the past, and yes, things are changing so these people can integrate better.     But life is such that as we get old our mind / body does'nt operate the same and if help can be given to the elderly so they can be comfortable and have peace of mind then that can only be good.

[Keni]

There definitely seems to be 'elderly homes' in our area - around the Haute Vienne. Piegut has a sign directing you to the homes for the elderly and signposting warning you of olds in the roads. In our village itself the more senior folk are sticking it out, but they do have the Franch equivalent of 'Meals on Wheels' each day.

I should think that around the coastal areas there must be the equivalent of Bournemouth/Eastbourne. My own experience of mum in a British home was first class, it was good and actually specialised in dementia/altzheimers. Although mum had a shared room it was around £395 per week. So Iwould think in France you should expect £-E.What I would not wish on anybody was sticking it in hospital for six months before finding a suitable home though, as happened to mum, so I would say think long and hard about what you want for yourselves and start to act on it now.

 

[Ron Avery]

Will, there is no dispute that the elderly were alone or there were inadequate medical facilities available from GPs and in some hospitals as such an event was unprecedented.  I just wondered where the assumption that they had been abandoned in care homes by the care home staff going on holiday came from.  The quote I used was from my 2nd favourite paper the Torygraph[:D]

 

[Sprogster]

Hi Will,

Yes, I meant inadequate and I am a 'he' by the way for future reference!