Chancer Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Until this year when I was occupied full time with the tourist rentals I had returned several times a year, on my last trip it was a break of 10 months, I had remained away for 9 months 10 years ago and I dont recall seeing any changes between times, this trip a couple of weeks ago shocked me to the core with the sheer numbers of people on the roads and filling the shops and car parks all hours of the day, I swear to you it seemed like the population had doubled in that time. The same journeys at the same time of day to say Screwfix or Toolstation (both a 5 minute drive from me) before I would park, be either served immediately or second in the queue, now I have to wait 10 minutes for a parking space to vacate and another 20-30 minutes in the queue, it was the same wherever I went anywhere familiar, the worst being at 3pm when the main roads were blocked to a standstill by mothers picking up children or any retail shop at any time of day, the town centre is now deserted by all but the pound shops although there are more shoppers than ever, the satellite shopping centres that have sprung up over the last decade which had huge car parks for thousands of vehicles you cannot even drive into now it is permanent gridlock. 10 months ago everyone was up in arms about planning being granted for hundreds of thousands of new houses in what are effectively new town villages which were priced beyond anything else in the South of england, now I am told they are all sold before even being built and the region needs twice as many again. If the second runway is built at Gatwick Airport then things will move up yet another gear. I have no problem with all the foreign voices, I like the multi-culturalism but the place is beyind gridlock and the economy still growing exponentially; pretty much every business that I spoke to said that they needed bigger premises, more staff but paying for either is becoming more and more unattainable. I really didnt enjoy the stay which is crazy because I really needed a break from this place, I know that I will be leaving France within hopefully the next few years, now I know definitively that I dont want to return to my part of the UK even temporarily, however the rental income and the increase in my property values is crazy, how long will the buuble last? - Well people have been saying that for a very long time, I want to jump off the ride but its the old "not just yet", the greed coming through. I could understand being shocked after a decade away but in only 10 months!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlebitfrench Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I would move back to the UK (well the south) tomorrow. Not that I don't like France, it is just that I would like the challenge. It is different and new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTrash Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Haven't kept up with the thread but I see the EHIC is being widely advocated. I assume it has been pointed out that one of the few things specifically not covered by the EHIC is giving birth. For that, you need to apply and get a special form to show it has been authorisied.http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/plannedtreatment/Pages/Givingbirth.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Well I am sure they would like people to ask the question so that they can say no, they are fighting against haemorraging losses on two fronts, health tourism where UK résidents go abroad for healthcare and the foriegn résidents coming over on a day trip to pick up an EHIC and go back to get 5 star private treatment in their own country where they have no rights at all to treatment.I doubt that any of the Hungarians or Romanians asked permission to use the EHIC like daddies credit card and a French hospital once they know they will be paid wont be asking "have you been authorised?" They are really wary of French résidents that may be at fin de droits because they wont get paid, a Brit, Hungarian or Romanian waving a UK issued EHIC will be welcomed like the old American Express advert "that will do nicely sir!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindal1000 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Mint, the pining for home comment was more about these forums in general.. I read a few of them and a while back there was a whole spate of people wanting to sell up and 'go home'. Maybe they have all gone, because with reflection I haven't read so much of that in the last year or so. On some forums, and I'm generalising here and not talking about this one in general, there seem to be a number of contributors who don't live in France anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Some of us who contribute this forum do so because we are planning to move to France when we find the right property. It is not a question of France at any price, it is more finding the right place where we can have the lifestyle we want at an affordable price. Life for me is a question of choices and finding the right balance. Hopefully we will find the right property at the right price.I do agree with Chancer that Southern England is becoming increasingly more and more crowded with all the associated problems that brings. I am also concerned with the rise of extremism in the UK but this seems to be a general problem across Europe so I do not think it possible to avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardengirl Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Chancer, I wonder if what you experienced was partly to do with Christmas shopping. I don't know when you were there, but every year in our area there's a big build-up from about the end of September, which gathers pace at half term. We left our English home in mid-September and returned 6 weeks later. The difference on the roads was huge, and when I wanted to go into town, I went in either just after the school rush in the morning or at primary school finishing time, otherwise it takes a lot longer to drive in and looking for car park spaces takes a lot of patience. The large number of new houses in the area over the past few years has added to this problem.As some on here will know, we spend half of each year in France, the other half in England. I thoroughly enjoy my time in both countries, living very different lives. Twice in the past 2 years, we have had problems when using our EHIC cards in 2 different French hospitals; the worst being when my husband was rushed in as an emergency case and I had to pay hundreds of euros to the hospital as staff wouldn't accept my husband's EHIC card because it wasn't in French; getting a refund took several months to recover. Earlier I posted to say that I thought that medical payments now had to be claimed at the local CPAM and not via Newcastle. I've looked this up and that is the case and has been since 1 July 2014:http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/EHIC/Pages/EHICchanges.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTrash Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 The point being that even if the French hospital accepts an EHIC for treatment, and the UK subsequently refuses the reimbursement, the bill doesn't go away until somebody has paid it. And giving birth isn't covered by the EHIC so it's unlikely to be refunded. It needs an S2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 [quote user="EuroTrash"]The point being that even if the French hospital accepts an EHIC for treatment, and the UK subsequently refuses the reimbursement, the bill doesn't go away until somebody has paid it. And giving birth isn't covered by the EHIC so it's unlikely to be refunded. It needs an S2.[/quote]That's knocked that one on the head then, ET?Now all those advocating using the EHIC can only hope that the OP didn't fall for that seemingly easy solution to their dilemma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/plannedtreatment/Pages/Givingbirth.aspxEurotrash is right, but just in case there's any lingering doubt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindal1000 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 The OP has long gone, but if I was in their position I would just go back to UK for a couple of months. I know at least two people here who did just that. I don't know what their residents status was..perhaps they had a permanent address in the UK.. it isn't something you usually ask.. One advantage (or disadvantage) of doing that.. is that if the child is born in UK it makes the birth certificate thing and registration so much easier. None of this rushing down within 4 days and only having certain names etc. just pop into the registry office in UK just before you are ready to come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 [quote user="EuroTrash"]The point being that even if the French hospital accepts an EHIC for treatment, and the UK subsequently refuses the reimbursement, the bill doesn't go away until somebody has paid it. And giving birth isn't covered by the EHIC so it's unlikely to be refunded. It needs an S2.[/quote] Well you might like to think that, they can write, rewrite and amend "rules " until they are blue in the face, people on forums can extrapolate those as being "law" and condemn hypothetical maternity users as fraudsters, meanwhile in the real world Romanians, Hungarians in fact anyone who can pretend to be from an EU country can pick up an EHIC like a bingo scratch card and then treat themselves to what is probably a far better private funded health system than the NHS in the country of their choice. Saying "its unlikely to be refunded" assumes that we live in a right and just world where people make checks before handing over the taxpayers money, the reality is either that it isnt done because of a multitude of fonctionnaire type excuses or they have taken the view that policing costs more then the losses. Its no different in France mind, I am always gobsmacked when I hear of the few cases of CPAM fraud that are investigated, invariably they run into millions and have been going on for several years with only a very few people in a gang making every one of the fraudulent claims for treatment from one single overseas clinic, if it were your responsability would you not notice that one small health clinic in les isles Comores, that doesnt even exist has been paid millions by the SECU for malaria treatments to just 4 individuals all supposedly living at one French address? Every case I hear of is like that, they make television exposées of them which are supposed to re-assure us that they are doing their job, it has the opposite effect on me,it tells me that for years people have just seen their rôle as no more than processing claims and making payments with the odd bit of "pièce manquant" and "dossier perdu" thrown in to add variety, I would try to bury any instances of gross incompetence like the above not publicise them as a victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Acksherly, Chamcer, there was an article which I could probably find if I went to look, where the Daily Mail (surprise! ) did an "expose" of bloodyforwignerscomingtoourcoutrystealingourjobsclaimingbenefits...Can't get rid of that feral "w"", but pressing on...Said expose later revealed that a doctor had been conned by the Mail's undercover journalists. A Hungarian went to a GP with a journalist pretending to be his landlord with some fake tenancy agreement documents and coerced the GP into giving the Hungarian an NHS number, which in turn permitted him to get an EHIC. The Hungarian had been in the UK for only a couple of days. The resultant "story" was of course that "Hungarians" we're coming over en masse and fraudulently obtaining EHIC's to allow them to go home and be treated at the UK taxpayers' expense. Smoke, mirrors and typical Mail scaremongering and manipulation of the facts.Now, I've worked with a fair few Hungarians, Romanians, Spaniards, Italians and citizens of most other EU member states for donkeys years now, and I've known a huge number of them who fly home for regular visits (and sometimes for the sole purpose) to seek medical treatment in their country of origin. They do so on their own time, out of their own pockets and with no thought of claiming it from the UK, despite the majority being UK residents and taxpayers. They just prefer to be treated "at home" where they know the system, prefer the way of doing things, and can get appointments to suit them with a healthcare professional who speaks their language. Because they are earning money, whatever costs are involved are within their means.Granted, none of them have been pregnant, although I have known a handful who have had their babies in the UK..all of whom were permanent residents with jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Now Betty, how can you doubt the accuracy of something in the Daily Mail. We all know this is a paper of high repute that would never distort the truth just to make a point. If the DM says that one hungarian has obtained an EHIC under false pretences then it follows (at least by DM logic) that all hungarians are doing the same and almost certainly all their Romanian and Bulgarian neighbours are doing the same. It's in the DM so it must be true.[6]Now I know why I feel that the UK that I know and love is no longer the country I grew up in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Party pooper Betty [:(] You have allowed the truth to spoil my enjoyment of a fairy tale [:D] I can 100% believe what you say about the journalist although TBF all the DM ones just seem to reprint tweets and in this case alleged postings on forums, I'm quite shocked that any of the bunch would have the nouse to fake up a story. Which leaves all the alleged internet postings of people allegedly giving birth in Hungary grace à the NHS, I wonder if there is some truth behind it and the story and the scamming of the Doctor was done to give meat or plausability to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 They just prefer to be treated "at home" where they know the system, prefer the way of doing things, and can get appointments to suit them with a healthcare professional who speaks their languageThe weird thing about certain British immigrants in France is that they will go back to the UK to have their hair cut (possible grâce à Ryanair) or in order to go clothes shopping, yet when it comes to health care they demand that their French Doctor be able to speak English.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Slightly relevant here - I seem to remember that a few years ago there was quite a lot in the UK papers about the NHS paying for british people to go abroad for operations and treatment. Especially for things for which there was a long waiting list in the UK.At that time I was having a hip replacement in France (covered by an S1) and one nurse asked me if I was on holiday in France? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Lindal, your posts on this thread have been on my mind.You are obviously a well qualified person, who had already lived abroad and that IMO makes one better equipped for a further move, because the thing we learn when we jump countries, is how different other countries are and how they deal with much of life and to expect it.The OP said, well what did they say. They were renting, although I have no idea how they did that, with no income and 'some' savings. Would have actually been nigh on impossible where I used to live. They are moving to the Limousin, well, why the Limousin, is that a good place to go? In one's twenties with a baby on the way what job opportunities are there?? Well one can get cheap property, which in itself is an indication that there are not many jobs. Just browsed Le Boin Coin for the Limousin and Savoie, a dept I am more than familiar with and the prices are in general twice that of the Limousin, and I know why the odd thing is cheap in the Savoie, because I know where these places are. And I would not live in those places even as a retiree, views, yep, can be absolutely superb, although no always, but really, impractical from my point of view.So just going for it, with all that is going on in their lives, sounds plain daft to me. If they had moved to close to one of the big cities with good job opportunities, well, I could have understood that. And none of us have any idea if they have any skills that will earn them a living wage. And obviously llados research about the basics like health care...... with a baby on the way???? When we were a young couple, not expecting, we didn't give health care much of a thought either. I was expecting within a year of moving to France, and that, believe me, it then becomes worrying and important.Also, re a board for 'young women'. Well when I moved to France as a young woman, I met quite a few british single women, who had good jobs. A couple of them married french men. Most of the others, now retired have moved back to the UK, as did a widow. And moving back is moving back to another country, because when one has been away for most of one's adult life, it would be stupid and naieve to expect it not to very different, because the country(s) one has lived in will also have changed during that time....... and IF they have not, then something is 'odd' at best. We had always planned to move back for our retirement, and I am glad that we did. And our ties will always be with France, due to income and family and friends, but I did not want 'french' in my every day life or deal with french bureaucracy any more than I needed to. I do not know what you buy, but we live far more cheaply than we did in France and at last we really can afford a decent social life and eat out regularly and well (has to be at least as good or better than at home, because I may not be good at a lot, but I am a very good cook). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindal1000 Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I completely get why you have chosen to do the things you've done and I'm absolutely certain they are the right decisions for you, and for all the right reasons. They may or may not be the right things for other people to do. My sister asked me the other day if I would go back to UK if something happened to my partner and I had to think about it. A couple of years ago I would have said yes, but now I'm not so sure, and if it ever happens who knows. One of our plan Cs has always been the option to return to UK and we even talk about where we might go, but at the moment it isn't something that we have any interest in just now. We also had a plan C that involved one of us working in UK and commuting at weekends if necessary but so far we have not needed that option thank goodness.The problem with a forum is that you never get the full picture of anyone.. I have no idea whether the OP is renting from a friend, has a formal rental arrangement or renting their parents holiday home. These things happen. They wouldn't be the first couple to have a child without having everything in order and they weren't really asking for advice as to whether they were doing the right thing or not but whether they could get healthcare. In light of the responses they got and what they are able to do, they may well have put their plans B, C or D in place, or made up new ones.Personally I think the Limousine is a bit too isolated for me, but a lot of people, even young ones, really love it and crave that isolation. The young Australian woman that we got our dog from lives in the middle of nowhere with her farmer husband and seems pretty content. There are people that are not French who live and work quite happily in France (I'm surrounded by them where I am). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 It is my understanding that the OP has been given the unjudgemental advice they were seeking by other means, quite possibly the Facebook support groups. As everyone has been wildly speculating about this assumed feckless young couple who I would probably rather associate with than most of their age in the UK, ie, they have already got off their backsides, then I am going to play devils advocate. They may well be renting from family or friends, they are Young, 10 weeks ago probably had no ties or responsabilities, one of their jobs may have come to an end or maybe the house they were renting was sold, maybe the French house owner needed some work doing or would prefer the place to be lived in, if a Young couple should be chastised for moving across 20 miles of water to the nearest EU country to "give it a go" then we really are in a bad place dont you think? And as for the future birth, well accidents or gifts from god according to your viewpoint, happen to Young couples, without them many of us would not be here to sermonise [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Here we are, Chancer...now, I am aware that the Guardian has a different political agenda from the Mail. I am equally aware that it nonetheless does have a political agenda. However, these 3 articles in conjunction with one another give a perspective that is, if nothing else, interesting. And they raise the important question: Shoould we be so quick to rush to judgment about how much all this is costing the UK without also considering exactly how much the UK's own citizens are milking from other countries? Or is it again a case that UK citiizens, by virtue of their nationality, can never be "health tourists" or " benefit scroungers" purely because they're Brits?http://www.theguardian.com/society/reality-check/2015/aug/11/are-foreigners-gaming-nhs-pay-medical-treatment-abroad-ehichttp://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/19/-sp-thousands-britons-claim-benefits-euhttp://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/07/treating-uk-tourists-in-europe-costs-five-times-more-than-equivalent-cost-to-nhsOne day, this forum's software will allow me to post clickable links. *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Luckily we are all different and want different things and places to live otherwise there would be even more crowded areas and empty areas. What is right for one is not necessarily right for another so IMO we should celebrate the differences and accept that there are many different ways of doing things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I read the last one Betty and got real confused, maybe the others will make it clearer, I started reading it with the assumption that young Mr & Mrs Letsgoforit using ther EHIC in France would cost the UK NHS either by a repayment in the UK or from CPAM billing the NHS, likewise Mrs easteuropeandaytrirforanEHIC using the UK card in their country would cost the UK. Then by mid article I realised, no they are not costing the UK they are costing the other country, they are doing the UK a favor. Then the final paragraph completely muddied the waters. Can anyone explain because my brain hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 The first report makes it clear, I'll have to start reading the Guardian, is it a haven from stories of vacuous "celebs" and photos of women in bikinis in Dubai? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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