Guarantee period on TV's

[Martin963]

In autumn 2007 we bought a portable TV (brand Tokiwa) from our local Super U.   It worked extremely well until this morning,  but now the picture cuts out with a click after a few seconds of operation.

I have found the receipt,  the packaging,  but not any form of guarantee card.   I rang Super U but -  whilst helpful - they were as hazy as to the length of the guarantee period as I am.  I'm rather hoping it's two years.    They said to bring it in but it would be a help to be armed with some info first.

Does anyone know whether it's likely to be one or two years....?

Thanks.

[Sunday Driver]

No info available on SuperU, but a quick check of sites like Darty etc shows that TVs seem to be covered by a 2 years manufacturer guarantee with the option to purchase the retailer's extended warranty.

Quickly Googled 'Tokiwa' and nothing there concerning television sets.....[:(]

 

 

 

[Martin963]

Thanks SD,  I've in fact now rung the Super U helpline and they're going to ring me back.

I agree it does seem odd that Tokiwa appear to be unconnected with TV's!!    It's a CRT 36 cm  14C01 and -  until it wnet *pouf* this morning was excellent value at €61....

[AnOther]

According to this EU directive it's 2 years and I know this has been the norm in Germany for a while now.

EU Directive or not in France there will be of course the twin obstacles of denial and obstinacy to be overcome [:'(]

[suein56]

[quote user="Martinwatkins"]

I agree it does seem odd that Tokiwa appear to be unconnected with TV's!!    It's a CRT 36 cm  14C01 and -  until it wnet *pouf* this morning was excellent value at €61....[/quote]

Tokiwa was a 'brand label' that SU sold until last Autumn I believe; so it is not hard to understand why you can find no mention of it in relation to your TV. We have a 'Tokiwa' microwave and a 'T' mini oven. Whilst they are cheap they are also solid and functional. It would not surprise me if they did not last too long. But, having said our products both have a 2 year warranty so that I, too, believe that your TV could well have a 2 year guarantee. So good luck with your claim.

Sue

[Martin963]

Thanks for the further input.    I'll report back when I've taken the TV (and the receipt) back to our Super U at Lubersac.

[clarksinfrance]

All consumer goods purchased anywhere in Europe are covered by a 2 yr guarantee, without exception.

[AnOther]

[quote user="clarksinfrance"]All consumer goods purchased anywhere in Europe are covered by a 2 yr guarantee, without exception.

[/quote]In theory yes, in practice not as clear cut unfortunately. Our first washing machine here in France for instance popped it's clogs at the ripe age of about 14 months, the paperwork said the guarantee was for 12 months and that was the end of the conversation as far as the shop was concerned.

Yes I could have taken it further and jumped up and down but we needed a washing machine and however in the right you are, short of embarking on a crusade, sometimes you just have to accept that you ain't gonna win. The fact that 'er indoors didn't like it much did help in coming to that decision it must be said.

To this day many UK retailers still persist in offering only a 12 month guarantee and get away with it because the general public don't know any different.

[Martin963]

I've just managed to speak to our local Super U whilst the responsable for the TV rayon is actually at work,  and I've been told that unless the packaging says otherwise then it's only a one year guarantee.

My two requests to the central Super U number have not produced replies as yet,  but it looks as though I'm stuffed if the local shop has decided that it's only one year.

EU directive or not I think that TV will be joining countless others at the Hautefort Recycling Centre later this week.

Yet another fluorescent bulb went POUF! last night - they really are a rip-off because they only become economic if they last as long as it's claimed that they should,   and we've had countless go after only about 1000 hours of use.

Modern life.........

[AnOther]

Despite technological advances it seems to me that some consumer items have become less reliable, not more. I've had far more items fail prematurely in recent years than I ever recall in past.

I bought a TV from Argos which lasted about 3 months and although I contacted them to tell them the fact that it was in France and not remotely likely to get taken back for at least 9-12 months they weren't interested. I only bought it from Argos because I'd been given some gift vouchers. so I suppose in one way I'd lost nothing, still irritating though.

Take the philosophical view Martin, €61 over 18 months is less than €1/wk [;-)]

[Anton Redman]

If it is LCD it might be worth isolating from the mains and checking for either a faulty on off switch or a dry joint.  

[Clarkkent]

ErnieY

I am not a lawyer but have always believed that consumer protection is afforded in England by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. This has been amended by Statutory Instrument in 2002 found at http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023045.htm. The Instrument implies that guarantees are additional safeguards that may be offered by an interested party. I could not find any reference to any mandatory two year guarantee imposed by EU legislation. I vaguely remember being told that EU consumer legislation had been influenced by the English legal position. However, I may be wrong and would be pleased if one of the lawyers who use this forum could enlighten us.

Your contract was with Argos, who if necessary, could be served (or threatened) with a County Court summons. I had a dispute with Argos a couple of years ago and found that their Customer Service individuals seemed rather Neaderthal. However, a letter to the MD, Terry Duddy worked wonders.

The original Sale of Goods Act stated that goods should be as described, fit for purpose and of merchantable quality.

[AnOther]

[quote user="Anton Redman"]If it is LCD it might be worth isolating from the mains and checking for either a faulty on off switch or a dry joint.  [/quote]

It cost €61 Anton, hello [:D]

[AnOther]

[quote user="Clarkkent"]I could not find any reference to any mandatory two year guarantee imposed by EU legislation.[/quote]

Perhaps THIS explains why UK retailers still commonly offer 1 year.

Basically the EU directive has not been adopted because the UK Sale of Goods Act affords much higher protection, unfortunately it also provides retailers with an easy out, 'sorry guv, it's out of guarantee'

[Anton Redman]

Apart from your comment that it was € 61 I have not seen any thing to substantiate the price. Anyway where I was born € 61 is still getting into bed money and € 30 is getting out of bed money.  

[AnOther]

2nd reply

[quote user="Martinwatkins"] It's a CRT 36 cm  14C01 and -  until it

went *pouf* this morning was excellent value at €61....[/quote]

[quote user="Anton Redman"]Anyway where I was

born € 61 is still getting into bed money and € 30 is getting out of

bed money[/quote]Funny, where I come from it was the other way round [:D]

[Anton Redman]

I knew I had misunderstood the protestant work ethic

[Clarkkent]

[quote user="ErnieY"][quote user="Clarkkent"]I could not find any reference to any mandatory two year guarantee imposed by EU legislation.[/quote]
Perhaps THIS explains why UK retailers still commonly offer 1 year.

Basically the EU directive has not been adopted because the UK Sale of Goods Act affords much higher protection, unfortunately it also provides retailers with an easy out, 'sorry guv, it's out of guarantee'

[/quote]

In which case either report the retailer to Trading Standards or issue a County Court summons. A guarantee or warranty cannot override the statutory rights provided by SoG. This is really a question of consumer education.

In the middle of the material ErnieY directed me to I found this:

The courts would still look to SoGA as the directive in question has been 'bolted on' to the Sale of Goods Act. The effect of SoGA was that you had only had rights of monetary compensation, now those rights include options of repair or replacement.

anchor has hit the nail on the head, the problem is not the law, but some retailers' ignorance of their obligations. If you ever encounter any such problems just ring Trading Standards.

P.S. Warranties might be easier to enforce, but that doesn't alter the fact that there is no standard two year warranty in Europe. That two year period relates only to the minimum limitation on claims. As I pointed out before, in the UK you potentially have up to six years.

[RicandJo]

[quote user="Martinwatkins"]I think that TV will be joining countless others at the Hautefort Recycling Centre later this week.[/quote]

And later next week at the Hautefort Vide Grenier..........[:D]

[LEO]

[quote user="Anton Redman"]Apart from your comment that it was € 61 I have not seen any thing to substantiate the price. Anyway where I was born € 61 is still getting into bed money and € 30 is getting out of bed money.  [/quote]

"Priceless", Anton.

[clarksinfrance]

http://ec.europa.eu/publications/booklets/move/64/en.pdf

Check out page 7 (just easy to read) and associated EU directive 1999/44/EC, which has been subsumed into ALL EU member states law.

[Martin963]

Thanks for that link cif,  in fact one can turn it into French by substituting fr for en in the link.

So now do I dare go back to Super U with that directive.   Certainly I'll try that out on the central phone number with them if/when they can be bothered to return my call.....

[Clarkkent]

[quote user="clarksinfrance"]http://ec.europa.eu/publications/booklets/move/64/en.pdf

Check out page 7 (just easy to read) and associated EU directive 1999/44/EC, which has been subsumed into ALL EU member states law.
[/quote]

Hmm, very interesting.

 

The document which ClarksinFrance refers to does state that there is a two-year guarantee period. If, however, you look at the Directive 1999/44/EC the only reference to two years is in Section 17:

 

(17) Whereas it is appropriate to limit in time the period during which the seller is liable for any lack of conformity which exists at the time of delivery of the goods; whereas Member States may also provide for a limitation on the period during which consumers can exercise their rights, provided such a period does not expire within two years from the time of delivery; whereas where, under national legislation, the time when a limitation period starts is not the time of delivery of the goods, the total duration of the limitation period provided for by national law may not be shorter than two years from the time of delivery;

 

My very non-legal brain does not interpret this as a “guarantee” of the goods for two years but a time period during which the supplier of the goods can be challenged as to the condition of the goods when they were purchased. In other words, the time period after purchase in which you can bring an action. After two years (six years in England and Wales) you can no longer bring an action. It seems to me that this has been somewhat misinterpreted by whoever it was that wrote the consumer leaflet.

 

I find the “two year” concept rather puzzling because there are goods whose normal life expectancy may not be two years or whose condition after two years may be such as to make claiming unreasonable -  a gas barbeque, for example.

 

The next two sections seem to me to be concerned with issues of the state of goods on purchase – or shortly after – and this would appear to be just two months.

 

(18) Whereas Member States may provide for suspension or interruption of the period during which any lack of conformity must become apparent and of the limitation period, where applicable and in accordance with their national law, in the event of repair, replacement or negotiations between seller and consumer with a view to an amicable settlement;

(19) Whereas Member States should be allowed to set a period within which the consumer must inform the seller of any lack of conformity; whereas Member States may ensure a higher level of protection for the consumer by not introducing such an obligation; whereas in any case consumers throughout the Community should have at least two months in which to inform the seller that a lack of conformity exists;

 

 

But I am not a lawyer, so could easily be wrong. Is there a difference between a “guarantee” and a “warranty”?

 

[Anton Redman]

The two seem to be used almost as euphemisms but the technical split used to be:

With in the terms of a contract I for instance warrant that a second hand Rolls Royce has done less than 60,000 miles then if it turns out to have done 66,000 the purchaser can demand compensation from me.

If on the other hand I guarantee the car has done less than 60,000 if it turns out that the car has done 60,666 miles then the purchaser can return the car and receive their money back

Within the UK motor trade guarantees normally refer to the original manufacturers commitment whereas warranties frequency refer to contacts with third party insurance companies who agree to pay or the correction of faults within a set mileage or time for a fee.

 

[Martin963]

The central service clients rang back this afternoon.     Their initial position was that the guarantee was for two years

1 Year Manufacturer's Guarantee

1 further Year Shop guarantee.

When I told them that the local Super U had said only one year she said she'd check and ring back

Five minutes later the position had changed to just one year.

I can't help feeling I've been had for a mug but with raised blood pressure anyway I can't afford to take it further.

Shan't buy any big purchases from Super U in the future.

C'est la vie,  and it *is* only €61.