Tuning a UK purchased TV in France

[Stan Streason]

There has been an element of confusion about this so I report what I did this weekend.

Had purchased a series 4 Samsung TV in UK at over £100 cheaper than its French equivalent.

In France I wired it all up then it entered setup.

1st question Language  _  English

2nd question Country _  France

3rd question Do you want to search for analogue, digital or both  _  Both

Away it went.  After about 10 mins I have 5 analogue channels and 9 digital (although some are scrambled) and all I have is an internal antennae.

So a resounding yes. Modern UK TV's (or at least Samsung's) do work in France

[Quillan]

Philips well ahead of the game. My Philips is about 18/20 years old and when I got here did the same thing and off it went no problems. Of course it does not have TNT being that old but the analog worked and I got about two channels OK the rest were rubbish but thats because I have a rather large mountain in the way.

[Martin963]

Glad it's worked for you.    I'm sure the majority of modern sets are similar.

But I labour the system differences because there are still armies of working TV's from yesteryear that won't - when moved from Britain to France - perform so non-xenophobically.  I have several obstinate examples of the genre!

[Quillan]

I think the secret lays in the second question. This appears to enable whatever tuner is required for a particular country. So perhaps if your TV has this option (and you can select France ) in the setup you can live in some hope that it will work here in France. Sadly by other two TV's I bought from the UK don't have the option and don't work on normal terrestrial Chanel's. Still they are OK for playing games and watching DVD's.

[RicandJo]

Not so much to do with the second question, which many TV's don't ask. Secret is in owning a multi system TV i.e one which incorporates SECAM (for France) and PAL ( for UK)

If you plug in a non SECAM TV in France it will not work whether or not you tell the TV it's geographical position!

[Martin963]

Secret actually is to check the TV is capable of tuning system L.

SECAM is merely the colour system,  and not all SECAM capable sets are capable of dealing with system L  (although they will of course if bought in France).

SECAM is often (sloppily) used as a shorthand to refer to the French TV system.   It merely refers to the colour system used in France.

But I'm sure you're all fed up with me on this one,  I've been labouring the point for as many years as I've been a member of the forum.....

[Stan Streason]

[quote user="Martin963"]Secret actually is to check the TV is capable of tuning system L.

[/quote]

Please dont take this the wrong way but for the majority of us its easier to go to the manufacturers website, download the installation instructions and see if a country option is included (or even see if the man in Curry's can show you) rather than hunt for system L.  I wouldnt know where or how to start to do that.

Whilst not particularly pushing Samsung though the gist of my post was to say it is certainly possible with their TV's (and series 4 is not particularly recent - they are up to 6 or 7 now).

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Martin963"]

But I'm sure you're all fed up with me on this one,  I've been labouring the point for as many years as I've been a member of the forum.....
[/quote]You're so helpful, Martin, that we let you off![:D][:P]

[Martin963]

I take your point Stan.  However,  there have over the years been many people here (who are only trying to help!) who have conflated SECAM with system L.

It's also not helped that for years there were adverts for "multi-standard" sets,   but it was only when you read the miniscule print that it said "except France".  That was because of le sacré "L"  which is about as different from all the other standards as it's possible to be without using a different number of lines!!

Most of the time it doesn't matter,   and it matters less and less nowadays where sets seem to be capable mostly of dealing with anything,   but it's important on a technical site to give ACCURATE information (as far as possible)  particularly as I for one am aware that inappropriate purchases just MIGHT be made on the strength of advice given.

That's why I bang on about it.  Not to be clever,  not to be over-technical,  but more a belts-and-braces approach to the subject.

Probably partly due to my BBC training all those years ago.....

[Jako]

[quote user="RicandJo"]Not so much to do with the second question, which many TV's don't ask. Secret is in owning a multi system TV i.e one which incorporates SECAM (for France) and PAL ( for UK)

If you plug in a non SECAM TV in France it will not work whether or not you tell the TV it's geographical position![/quote]

The country question is important too. Not all frequency schemes are used in the same manner in different countries. Even a digital tuner needs to know in which country it is to be able to use the right frequencies in the correct manner.

TV's are cheaper in the UK because they are often missing an HD tuner. As there are no terrestrial HD TV stations in the UK yet producers are dumping these TV sets on markets where customers are unaware of this. The 'scrambled' French channels could well be unscrambled HD channels that a UK TV is unable to process.

The analogue color scheme in the UK is PAL, but with a shift in the sound carrier, for this reason old UK TV's cannot be used in the rest of Europe. Even in PAL countries like Germany the picture will be fine, but no sound.

[Martin963]

.....  although in practice I don't think anyone is using anything other than UHF Bands IV and V for digital terrestrial,  so I was under the impression that the country selector on a digital piece of kit was more to do with sorting channels into the "correct" order,   as opposed to the order in which the tuner finds them during a scan. But I stand to be corrected on that.

AFAIK any carrier offsets from standard UHF carrier frequencies for digital (which are standardised in Europe) are probed automatically during tuning.

As you say we're still waiting for DVB-T2 tuners in Britain.    France - as I discussed in another thread - are as far as I know only planning to use DVB-T for the moment, even for HD.

As you also say,  British TV's abroad in Europe and designed only for system I will fail to produce sound,   but when in France the positive picture modulation and the AM sound produce further problems.    And that's before the colour system is contemplated.

All I've been trying to stress is that in terms of priority for a TV colour comes down the list,   after the standard used.

[Jako]

[quote user="Martin963"]..... 

As you say we're still waiting for DVB-T2 tuners in Britain.    France - as I discussed in another thread - are as far as I know only planning to use DVB-T for the moment, even for HD.

[/quote]

"Pour recevoir les chaînes en Haute définition, il

faut également un équipement adapté. Il faut un téléviseur équipé d'un

décodeur intégré MPEG-4 et non MPEG-2, car les chaînes en haute

définition seront diffusées avec la norme MPEG-4"

France is using DVB-T, but with MPEG4 for HD. Standard DVB-T tuners can only process an MPEG2 stream,  an MPEG4  stream will display "scrambled channel"

[Martin963]

Indeed.

But what worries me is that the French are out there buying - as far as I can see - DVB-T HD receivers and STB's,   and in a few years time they might look enviously at neighbouring countries such as Britain who have adopted DVB-T2 with its increased pay loads.

Problem is that with developments coming so fast it's difficult to decide whether to "wait a few more months" to adopt some new standard or whether to "freeze" progress where it is.

A trap that OnDigital fell into (although in the end it didn't affect them as they didn't last long enough!) with their decision to use 2k symbolling.

And that Britain has fallen into with its use of DAB.

[Jako]

True. But don't forget that a modern TV will only last for about four years, while the old analogue TV would last you ten years.

[Martin963]

Goodness I hope the one I've just bought lasts longer than that.   I've still got a Trinitron from 1981!

[cooperlola]

Yes Martin, and my Plasma's five so should also be dead by now....

[RicandJo]

[quote user="Jako"]True. But don't forget that a modern TV will only last for about four years, while the old analogue TV would last you ten years.

[/quote]

Nonsense!

[Théière]

[quote user="Martin963"]Goodness I hope the one I've just bought lasts longer than that.   I've still got a Trinitron from 1981!

[/quote]

Ditto my Trinitron dates from 1986 and still going [:)]

[Jako]

[quote user="RicandJo"][quote user="Jako"]True. But don't forget that a modern TV will only last for about four years, while the old analogue TV would last you ten years.

[/quote]

Nonsense![/quote]

Have you ever read the tech papers that are delivered with your TV?

And not only  the UK ones, but also languages of other countries where local law requires an estimated life-expectancy to be published by the manufacturer.

Obviously not.

[Martin963]

Well in my case the only documentation on paper that arrived with a new TV was a lot of safety notices on a single sheet.

I've looked on the CD which forms the instruction manual and there is no mention (as far as I can see) of life expectancy.

What countries exact the life expectancy details Jako?

[DerekJ]

Quoting lifespan in terms of years is pretty meaningless. The number of hours usage is more realistic. I believe most modern LCD and plasmas are rated for around 60,000 hours half life (traditionally LCDs have had the longer half life rating but plasmas have caught up).

So, at 8 hours  a day, 60,000 hours equates to 7,500 days.... around 20 years.

The Sony I've got came with a 5year manufacturers warranty.

[Quillan]

[quote user="DerekJ"]Quoting lifespan in terms of years is pretty meaningless. The number of hours usage is more realistic. I believe most modern LCD and plasmas are rated for around 60,000 hours half life (traditionally LCDs have had the longer half life rating but plasmas have caught up).

So, at 8 hours  a day, 60,000 hours equates to 7,500 days.... around 20 years.
The Sony I've got came with a 5year manufacturers warranty.
[/quote]

I was going to say its down the MTBF (mean time between failures) and ironically if you have a search round the net both tubed screens, LCD and Plasma all seem to be about the same 40,000 to 80,000 hours of life.

It's fans and things that are mechanical that have the real problems but then fans are usually quite cheap, its just the cost of the engineer to fit them that makes them expensive. Electronic components technically have thousands of years of life as they have no moving parts to wear out. Their failure is usually attributed to some external force, spike in the mains, lightening strike, over heating due to fan failure or vents being covered, dust (causing over heating), liquid (through cleaning like polish from an aerosol) etc. So in real terms providing you give your TV a dust now again (preferably with a vacuum cleaner) and don't get liquids near the electronics it should last, on average, a good 20 years plus.

[RicandJo]

[quote user="Jako"][quote user="RicandJo"][quote user="Jako"]True. But don't forget that a modern TV will only last for about four years, while the old analogue TV would last you ten years.

[/quote] Nonsense![/quote]

Have you ever read the tech papers that are delivered with your TV?

And not only  the UK ones, but also languages of other countries where local law requires an estimated life-expectancy to be published by the manufacturer.

Obviously not.




[/quote]

Jako,

Sorry but I've lived and worked in UK, France, Germany and Italy.  Bought TV's in all those countries.

My job requires me to read technical instructions fully and this expectedly transfers to my personal life.  So yes I've read the tech pages fully.  I can honestly say I have never come across any life expectancy figures from any manufacturer.

A quick google search however and you come up with figures from various manufacturers of 60k - 100k hours, which is about 12-55 years, depending on usage.

Early plasmas are different - is this where you're coming from?  They were notoriously bad didn't last long but that's been ironed out now.