BBC HD changes tomorrow

[Jazzer]

According to BigDish BBC HD channels switch from DVB-S to DVB-S2 to morrow, Most freesat boxes are designed ti cope with both-but not all. It may switching the box off to trigger a retune, or if you loose both channels a freesat retune.

[Martin963]

It actually happened *yesterday* and I did mention it in another thread here,   but you are right to flag it up in its own thread.

A few people with Panasonics are having trouble but otherwise it's been relatively smooth....

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/2530466/ShowPost.aspx

[tonyv]

[quote user="Martin963"]

A few people with Panasonics are having trouble but otherwise it's been relatively smooth....

[/quote]

Hmm ....

My Sony TV with integrated Freesat tuner needed a retune. Major complaints from Mrs V when Springwatch couldn't be found[B]

[Martin963]

.... which is annoying I grant you;   the Panasonic problems are somewhat greater apparently.

And some Harvard boxes (Grundig and Goodmans) simply can't cope with DVB-S2,   although it's not clear why as they are specified so to do.

And it's only a small minority of the boxes.....

[CeeJay]

Martin

Unfortunately I have been out of the loop for about a month due to being forced back to UK temporarily whilst builders put up an extension!

Returned at the weekend and found that my Panasonic FreeSat set would not give me HD on BBC,all other HD channels seem to be alright. Reading your post it seems that there is a big problem with Panasonic on this changeover, could you explain what it is and how I could  overcome this.

[Martin963]

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1487325

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1485227&page=4

I don't know how relevant either of those are to you.   If whatever they suggest doesn't work I'll have another look if you tell us the model number you have.

Apart from the importance of scanning (if doing it manually at any rate) using S2 not S,   the symbol rate is non standard at 23000 kbps and the FEC is 8/9.   Which I forgot about when I spent ten fruitless minutes trying to persuade a Humax TNTsat box to find the BBC again.

10847 V tp 50

Freesat

DVB-S2

23000-8/9 QPSK

[CeeJay]

Martin

Thanks, as usual, for your response. I've had a look at those forums but it's all too techy for me!!!!

My model number is TX-L37V20BA. Do you think it possible Panasonic could do a firmware update to correct the problem?

[idun]

HD? I have never seen a tv with it. I rarely see a tv properly set up either. Lots of people we know seem to get huge tellys and everyone is mis shaped. I don't have a really big telly, don't have HD, do have  a good picture though, why would I want more?

Unless it is the old eyes makes me think I have a good picture, and then how would HD help?

[CeeJay]

IDUN

Thank you for your very constructive response, however I feel that advice from such as Martin would be far more helpful in the present circumstances, albeit that you may like to 'wind-up'!!!!!

[Martin963]

I'm not familiar with your TV,  but I've had a look at the manual on line and pg 59 (Shipping Condition) is what I suggest you go for.

It's drastic,  but it should re-initialise everything and initiate a new scan from scratch.

The problem seems to be that for some reason Panasonic make it difficult (nay impossible) to delete channels,   and because the BBC's ID flags haven't changed the set thinks that it's still got the correct parameters (ie the old ones) for the channels that have in fact changed system.

As far as I can see most people have sorted this out by a factory reset (or return to shipping condition) and I think it's your best bet.  

It should be fairly painless but obviously I can't take responsibility for it,  although would be happy to try and help you through it.   It'll be the same as when you first bought the TV - it'll need postcode (make one up to suit the region you want) but not much else.

It may of course be a different page number in your paper manual,  I'm looking at this

http://dlc.panasonic-europe-service.com/EUDocs/GetDoc.aspx?did=195056&fmt=PDF&lang=en&src=3&uilang=en-GB&model=TXL37V20BA

Let us (and idun!) know how you get on....

[idun]

[quote user="CeeJay"]IDUN
Thank you for your very constructive response, however I feel that advice from such as Martin would be far more helpful in the present circumstances, albeit that you may like to 'wind-up'!!!!!
[/quote]

But it wasn't a wind up, I want to know why so many people are getting excited about HD and consequently losing it. Don't you have the 'normal' channels to watch? Even if I took HD I'm sure I'd still have my normal channels. And tell my, why would I /should I take it? I have a perfectly good picture on my tv. And as I said, I don't think I have seen it, if I have, I have never seen anything and thought WOW. 

[JohnM]

I'm told that HD comes into its own on big screens. If you have a small screen you can't tell the difference. But more importantly, I'm told that HD uses less band width (you can get more HD channels into less space) so the transmission companies are very keen on it. (My camera gets an hour of HD onto a standard tape, but only 40 mins of "Broadcast quality DV on the same type of tape).

[Martin963]

[quote user="idun"]

[quote user="CeeJay"]IDUN

Thank you for your very constructive response, however I feel that advice from such as Martin would be far more helpful in the present circumstances, albeit that you may like to 'wind-up'!!!!!

[/quote]

But it wasn't a wind up, I want to know why so many people are getting excited about HD and consequently losing it. Don't you have the 'normal' channels to watch? Even if I took HD I'm sure I'd still have my normal channels. And tell my, why would I /should I take it? I have a perfectly good picture on my tv. And as I said, I don't think I have seen it, if I have, I have never seen anything and thought WOW. 

[/quote]

I believe idun that you're now back in Britain after your long period in France,  and if so you will have access to "Freeview".    Most of the standard definition channels on this have been progressively squeezed of bandwidth and look pretty terrible (although less bad on a cathode ray tube TV than on a flat screen).    BBC News 24 and ITV 3 for example are particularly bad.   Studio material with little movement looks reasonable,   but try and note next time you watch how bad leaves/gardens/grass etc look,  particularly when the camera pans - they just "dissolve" into a mass of muddle.   Try Gardeners' World  on BBC 2 for example.   If you get the chance to see a flowing stream you will see that the whole image dissolves into a mass of squares (pixellates) because the bean counters have tried to squeeze in too many channels and the coding system can't cope.

Once you have seen HD it makes the SD Freeview look awful.    There is an eerie-at-times clarity,   you can really look into people's eyes,   and people in crowds  (at say Wimbledon) are instantly recognisable even though they're in the background;   it's not a sea of faces,  it's individual people.     Wildlife etc is at times breath-taking.    The difference (pace John) is pretty visible even on smaller screens.    Mostly detail in movement is preserved. 

Wendy wasn't that bothered to have HD,   but she suddenly "got" it whilst watching "Countryfile" after we'd got the TV and realised she could see all the different types of bird on the Exe estuary,  even though some of them were a fair way in the background.    Most of our viewing is now on the BBC HD channel,  a sort of latter-day BBC 2;   when BBC 2 started in 1964 it not only had more "eclectic" programmes but also had 625 lines (even though back then it was still black and white) and many people (perhaps one could call them discerning) enjoyed not only the "better-class-of-programme" but also the better technical quality.

But if you're happy with SD stick with it - it's only television after all.....   I don't notice (for example) shabby furniture;  it's just something to sit on or eat off.   I'm happy with my 10 year old mobile phone,  it's just to make five calls a year (if that) on.    Maybe you're the same with picture quality....

I'm not quite sure about John's remark about HD being more economical with bandwidth - certainly it consumes (put simply) about four times the number of bits compared to SD.   However by using ever more efficient coding systems it's possible to accommodate about half the number of HD channels on a TV multiplex compared to the number of SD ones that could be carried.    Even so,   for a while we're not going to see nearly so many HD channels as we have SD,   and of course making programmes in HD is somewhat more expensive.

The worrying thing about HD is that already the original transmission quality has been downgraded by the BBC once,   and if things go the same way as SD in five years time HD won't be worth having.   Luckily there is a vociferous bunch of technical people who care enough who are making the BBC's life pretty awful for it on this subject and I think the day may yet be saved in that there won't be further downgrades.   But who knows,   the BBC's funding is under huge pressure and bean counters are sadly very powerful and sadly incredibly ill-informed when it comes to technical matters.

[pachapapa]

Firm agreement with M963.

HD can vary but the best quality reception at moment are the german HD channels; football on ZDF is exceptional.

I have a 50 inch plasma and in HD one can sit comfortably at less than 2 metres from the screen; so if you have a big screen TV in a small room go for HD.

Be careful NOT to buy a TV with an HD tuner but a 1366 x 768 display.

The 2D 2 3D transformation needs an initial good quality 2D image and HD gives a significantly superior 3D rendition as compared to a SD signal in MPEG 2.

[CeeJay]

Martin

Did a 'return to shipping condition' reset and it seems to have worked, I'm sure idun would like to know that I can now view glorious HD!!!!! Thanks again for your help.

[Martin963]

Excellent!    Glad you are back in action.

Where's idun gone I wonder?