Pickles Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 According to Midi Libre, the latest suggestion is that the government should get rid of Hadopi and instead put a tax on importers and manufacturers of smartphones and other connected devices.Yup, that's going to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Hmmmm...maybe phones should carry a license fee like TVs do in the UK ....now there's a thought..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 [quote user="Russethouse"]Hmmmm...maybe phones should carry a license fee like TVs do in the UK ....now there's a thought.....[/quote]Just the UK? RH.Still a stupid idea from any angle, better to tax for standing still and breathing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted May 14, 2013 Author Share Posted May 14, 2013 [quote user="Russethouse"]Hmmmm...maybe phones should carry a license fee like TVs do in the UK ....now there's a thought.....[/quote]I thought Hadopi and the latest ideas are supposed to be about preventing illegal downloads and/or compensating content creators for illegal access: so why restrict the tax or license to smartphones? The latest ideas are also intended to cover other connected devices - so presumably they would need to apply this to computers, tablet devices, smartphones, connected GPS, Raspberry Pi, media players, MP3 players etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted May 14, 2013 Author Share Posted May 14, 2013 [quote user="Théière"]better to tax for standing still and breathing [/quote]Oi, TP - don't give them ideas ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin963 Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 "better to tax for standing still and breathing"What did people expect this last time last year when they cast their ballots....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted May 14, 2013 Author Share Posted May 14, 2013 [quote user="Martin963"]What did people expect this last time last year when they cast their ballots....?[/quote]Five years off from sleaze? OOOPS - that didn't last long, did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 [quote user="Théière"][quote user="Russethouse"]Hmmmm...maybe phones should carry a license fee like TVs do in the UK ....now there's a thought.....[/quote]Just the UK? RH.Still a stupid idea from any angle, better to tax for standing still and breathing [/quote] I expect Income tax was seem as a stupid idea in 1799 ......[:)][:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted May 14, 2013 Author Share Posted May 14, 2013 [quote user="Pickles"][quote user="Russethouse"]Hmmmm...maybe phones should carry a license fee like TVs do in the UK ....now there's a thought.....[/quote]I thought Hadopi and the latest ideas are supposed to be about preventing illegal downloads and/or compensating content creators for illegal access: so why restrict the tax or license to smartphones? The latest ideas are also intended to cover other connected devices - so presumably they would need to apply this to computers, tablet devices, smartphones, connected GPS, Raspberry Pi, media players, MP3 players etc.[/quote]Call me cynical, but I wonder exactly how much of any tax/licence would end up with content providers ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 [quote user="Pickles"]The latest ideas are also intended to cover other connected devices - so presumably they would need to apply this to computers, tablet devices, smartphones, connected GPS, Raspberry Pi, media players, MP3 players etc.[/quote]The problem is that devices in the home, well the routers anyway, are connected all the time but their IP address keeps changing. This is one of the prime reasons Hadopi does not work very well. You need to keep extensive logs on every IP address and to which router it was issued and probably why they told the ISP's that it was down to them to do so. The only people I know who got caught were in the Ministry of Culture (or whatever it is called) a couple of years back but that was because with internal networks it is easy to see which computer is doing what and when. Doing this on a scale of millions upon millions of computers etc is just not practical. It is the same with mobile phones etc. You know they are downloading and they are downloading a lot of data and where from but not actually what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneySuckleDreams Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 HADOPI actually got caught themselves as when they designed their logo, they used an unlicensed font Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 [quote user="Quillan"][quote user="Pickles"]The latest ideas are also intended to cover other connected devices - so presumably they would need to apply this to computers, tablet devices, smartphones, connected GPS, Raspberry Pi, media players, MP3 players etc.[/quote]The problem is that devices in the home, well the routers anyway, are connected all the time but their IP address keeps changing. This is one of the prime reasons Hadopi does not work very well. You need to keep extensive logs on every IP address and to which router it was issued and probably why they told the ISP's that it was down to them to do so. The only people I know who got caught were in the Ministry of Culture (or whatever it is called) a couple of years back but that was because with internal networks it is easy to see which computer is doing what and when. Doing this on a scale of millions upon millions of computers etc is just not practical. It is the same with mobile phones etc. You know they are downloading and they are downloading a lot of data and where from but not actually what it is.[/quote]Not heard of static IP addresses in france? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted May 14, 2013 Author Share Posted May 14, 2013 [quote user="Théière"]Not heard of static IP addresses in france?[/quote]Unless it is something to do with Minitels, then I suspect the answer is "non"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianagain Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jul/09/france-hadopi-law-anti-piracyAnother Sarkozy plan scrapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lehaut Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 " You know they are downloading and they are downloading a lot of data and where from but not actually what it is."HADOPI is capable of pinging individuals in their homes. If you query them as to what they thought you were doing they can tell you the time, date and the actual content " ie name of the film" you were illegally downloading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 [quote user="Lehaut"]" You know they are downloading and they are downloading a lot of data and where from but not actually what it is." HADOPI is capable of pinging individuals in their homes. If you query them as to what they thought you were doing they can tell you the time, date and the actual content " ie name of the film" you were illegally downloading.[/quote]Some of that is not actually correct. They can 'ping' the router but routers have a built in DMZ and the 'routing table' is on the user side so they can't access that plus normally (99.8%) of the time all the devices hanging off the router on the user side start with 192.168 which means that they cannot be seen (They are reserved for 'private' use and are not seen across the internet).To put it another way, using an Orange Livebox as an example, the first available IP address on the local side of the Livebox is 192.168.1.10. That means if you were connected to the Internet and tried to ping 192.168.1.10 in France then it would ping hundreds and thousands if not a million or more devices.On top of that most people downloading films do so using Bit Torrent which means different 'blocks' of data are being retrieved from many different places. In 'the old days' there needed to be 'tracker' sources that monitored where all the bits were located but in more recent time (2005) we now have tracker less torrents which are also encrypted with 128 bit encryption using a 'use once' key the same as you use to view your bank account online. This means you can't even see what is in the blocks and you certainly don't know what the data is.The only time you can work it out is if you have a business system and your users are downloading stuff illegally. That is because the internal system keeps a log of who has which IP address and when. It also often watches and alerts the network department if people are downloading loads of data. This can be linked to the routing table and internal monitoring software can tell you the rest. For HADOPI to do this they must have the cooperation of the network manager inside the organisation. This is probably the reason why the only cut and dried prosecution has been with the Ministry of Culture (or whatever it’s real French name is) where staff thought they were safe and downloaded hundreds of films and music albums so it was a bit of a home goal.So HADOPI can only make an educated guess at what you are really doing and it revolves around them noticing that you download loads of data and then to confiscate your computer to see what’s on it (store it in the cloud for example and they have a problem). Mrs 'Q' does download loads of data, sound files etc but they tend to be interview recordings and very large documents day after day for her work and we thought this may of been problem but I think they probably checked where the files were coming from and realised that the UK police and the Ministry of Justice do not store films and music illegally for others to download. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lehaut Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Realise my use of the word "ping" was incorrect, naval term for finding a target with sonar, rather than the IT term. (under water groping rather than packet internet!) However, they do not need to confiscate your computer to see what you have downloaded. They (I suppose in conjuction with your ISP) appear to be capable of knowing what you are downloading on torrents (in this case 2012) and can say with certainty what exact film you have downloaded. I know this for a fact and have seen the actual letter received by a private individual using his home computer in a private house after HADOPI was challenged following the first warning. What I do not know is whether the film in question was uploaded by the authorities with some sort of "tracer" in it if such a process is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I would therefore suggest it was just one computer connected and downloading from the Internet at the time. It is an absolute technical fact that they cannot see inside your network. The word 'ping' is and always has been a very valid networking term taken from nautical terms because like sonar pings to ping another device and get a ping back and then you know the device exists, how far away it it etc. What they, the ISP, can see is what data is being sent to the router (LiveBox for example). ISP's themselves don't look inside data packets, they are not allowed to but media companies can using DPI (Deep Packet Inspection) but they are very heavily restricted as to what they can look for. The then pass the information to the ISP who then looks at the data for tell tale signs of BT (Bittorrent) traffic which are easy to spot if encryption is not turned on in the client which is something you have to do as the default is off. Sometimes ISP's look for BT information when somebody is downloading high amounts of data.Your friend may find his Internet access is being 'throttled down' and that can be tested using the following link and the test takes about 5 minutes.http://broadband.mpi-sws.org/transparency/He/she can also turn on encryption or alternatively use a proxy such as BTGuard which will bypass the throttling and keep his BT downloading anonymous. Of course he should only be downloading legitimate films etc and nothing illegal.http://btguard.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lehaut Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 It was just one computer connected and downloading, no network was involved, although several other computer had access on the usual MS homegroup. One could assume that HADOPI has/had available to them any method of inspecting data flow. Of course, the idea of Torrents is to share. If an individual is playing the game correctly, they should be uploading as much as they are downloading. Taking the nautical analogy a bit further, no one really "pings" anymore with an active system (leaving VLF out) its all passive. I wonder if its easier to detect someone uploading rather than downloading. With an ADSL ISP, it is easier to utilise the full upload bandwidth with torrents than max out the download. This would narrow the search parameters a bit. The individual involved in this incident never suffered from throttling and does not now use torrents. Lesson learnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Ceour de Lion II Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 A friend of mine here in the USA downloaded a movie using torrents, and received an email from their isp with a complaint by the owner of said movie. I imagine that there were trackers installed by the owner to enable them to know who downloaded this movie. Perhaps it was deliberately uploaded by them to catch people out. My friend ignored the email, nothing happened and the movie was crap anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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