Astra 2E/2F Technical Thread

[Martin963]

Many of us are wondering this morning a) whether anything actually happened last night and b) if not who on earth started the rumours that anything would.   It's partly why I've been refraining up to now from adding my tupporth...

Certainly I haven't heard any hue and cry from people.....

Has anyone?

It does look as though there has been a lot of wild speculation,   not surprising because if SES could escape from their paranoid secrecy and issue some sort of guidance there wouldn't be any speculation.

[Quillan]

Well I wondered what channels were going to move and they seem to be 'pay to view' like Sky Movies etc, Sky IEPG and the Sky Update DAL whatever that is.

It was supposed to happen between 01:00 and 03:00 and I personally cannot see any difference but then I have a big dish with C5 etc.

A list of channels on 2A are below although many are not to do with the UK.

http://en.kingofsat.net/sat-astra2a.php

Hope that helps

[Martin963]

I'm afraid that it doesn't really help at all!   I'm already aware of most of the sources for sat information. 

I don't mean to sound patronising but after all I've been giving people advice here for more than 14 years!!!

My point is that - yet again - we knew little about SES's intentions but nevertheless the speculation brigade jumped to conclusions without any real basis. 

As you say Quillan your new super dish isn't going to be bothered with any moves of this sort (if they happened at all).   It looks as though it's likely that all that happened were a few changes to PIDs (identification codes used in digital broadcasting) - not a wholesale clearing of 2A.

But I may be wrong.....

[Jako]

Yes, it seems that only pids changed.

But a changeover from 2A to 2F pan-european beam would only improve reception in the south of Europe, the rest would not even notice it.

[Martin963]

Indeed.

The question that increasingly needs answering is whether in fact Christmas viewing on the BBC/ITV etc is now assured for those in S France and Spain etc.....

I'm not going to speculate (and I hope I don't sound smug because of course I shall be in the prime target area!).

Nice test card up on 11023 MHz at the moment,  part of the tests for BBC 3 and 4 and Beebies and CBBC.  The BBC News Channel now is up there too,  replacing the BBC HD Red Button.   You probably won't see any of that on a Sky box or freesat box without a lot of fiddling,  but it's nice that all the BBC channels will shortly be in HD. 

[Quillan]

Well I was looking around on the support section of the Sky website and whilst it mentions previous outages etc there is no mention of this one. The only place I found by Googling was on http://www.satandpcguy.com/blog/2013/11/sky-tv-outage-28th-november-2013/

 

[Martin963]

There are some reports this morning that PID changes occurred LAST night rather than the night that was announced (AIUI at any rate). 

However,  as satandpcguy says,  this seems to have nothing to do with Astra 2E,   which appears still to be sitting at 43.5 deg E.

"They are playing with us Monsieur L'Ambassadeur".

[Jako]

Someone claims to have received this answer from SES:

 

"Dear Sir, Madam,

Thank you for contacting SES and for your enquiry.

the astra 2e will be start operation mid december

Kind regards,

The SES Team"

Zero confirmation on the authenticity of this message though.

[Pierre ZFP]

Don't know if it's connected with any of the above but over the weekend, all the Channel 4 (normal, HD and +1) channels were pixelating and freezing quite badly.  All other channels were fine as usual.

Anybody else experience such issues?

 

[Quillan]

It was fine down here.

One thing we did notice is that we got that affect a week ago when there was some really heavy dark grey cloud which looked like it was going to dump a ton of snow on us. It was around for three or four days but we also had the same problem with our French satellite TV as well. I checked with my guys who lent me the dish and they confirmed there was a lot of problems with both French and UK reception at that time. When it did snow we also had mild pixilation particularly on the 2F channels.

[Jako]

Snow is bad and again especially on DVBS2 8psk transponders. CanalSat is also using these parameters on their French HD channels. I even had some problems on channels that I normally receive with a very strong  C/N level of 16.8 dB.

Last TLE on Astra2E is from the 29th, so tomorrow might bring a surprise 'jump'

[Martin963]

[quote user="Jako"]

Last TLE on Astra2E is from the 29th, so tomorrow might bring a surprise 'jump'

[/quote]

Or not.....

I sometimes wonder if SES read predictions down on earth and then revel in doing the opposite eh Jako...?

People who know more about these things than I do are now generally coming to the conclusion that 2E won't be in actual service until after the Christmas period.

Having said that it is odd that there seems to be no rush;  2E got delayed for various reasons and the obvious conclusion would be that SES wanted it up and running ASAP in order to redeploy all the other craft that are filling in in the "wrong" slots,  such as 2C and 1N.   It seems not.

Hey ho.    Maybe one day someone in the know will write a history of SES and its reasons for being so cagey.

[Jako]

Yep, 2E is still at 43.5E. Assuming at least 10 days transit to 28.2 east , handover to SES followed by some testing by SES it is now very unlikely that something will change this year. Astra1H is 'on the move' and currently at 39 E, maybe they are simply unable or unwilling to control moving both satellites at once.

[HoneySuckleDreams]

Happy Birthday Astra 1A

http://www.wort.lu/en/view/luxembourg-launched-its-first-satellite-25-years-ago-today-52a6b965e4b06cb1dcf1af06

[basquesteve]

This move at the 28.2/28.5ºEast orbital location will take place over several weeks beginning early February 2014.

The transfer will have no adverse implications for viewers in the UK and Ireland as the affected channels will continue to operate on the same frequencies and will be broadcast at the same, or slightly improved power levels, across the UK and Ireland.

TV viewers outside the UK and Ireland may see an impact and may not be able to receive channels from ASTRA 2E UK Spot Beam, which has a smaller footprint than ASTRA 1N. The new footprint on SES' replacement fleet has been designed to meet the requirements of UK and Irish broadcasters who target their channels for distribution in the UK and/or Ireland. UK and Irish broadcasters hold broadcasting rights only for the UK and/or Ireland but not for other countries.

7 hours ago

https://www.facebook.com/SES.YourSatelliteCompany/posts/685290394836477?comment_id=6947977&offset=0&total_comments=7

[PaulT]

Presume that nothing posted lately means that the sat has not started moving in to position.

[basquesteve]

This is a recent Portuguese response

The simple fact is that nobody, as yet, knows exactly what is going to happen when Astra 2E goes into service in late February. This new satellite does have ‘spot beams’ and it’s likely that some BBC and ITV channels will go on to one of those transponders, but even that is not certain yet. Those who do know are not, as yet, making any information available.

Although it is likely to cause some problems in the New Year, there are various solutions, for example via a different satellite with no internet or subscription required. This satellite signal has been tested in Portugal with excellent results, even with a small dish.

If we do indeed lose all BBC and ITV channels, (it is rumoured within the industry that Sky may continue to carry channels such as BBC HD on their card-controlled platform) a dish can be re-aligned to another satellite and in conjunction with a different receiver andviewing is restored.

It is important to realise that when viewing Sky and Freesat, you are receiving signals from several satellites at the same position in space and not just one.

This is the reason that most channels, including Sky subscription, are, according to industry experts, highly unlikely to be affected by the new Astra 2E.

In theory, Sky cards are only available in the UK, and legally, there would be no copyright issues, and this is what has concerned broadcasters such as BBC and ITV.

Also bear in mind that, for example, BBC1 on Sky channel 101 is not the only BBC signal.

Seventeen BBC regions are also broadcast on other channels (from channels 900 upwards). Space on the spot beam transponders is not unlimited. You might lose BBC London, but still be able to receive one of the regional broadcasts, and only the local news would be different. So there is every reason to wait and see what actually happens.

Astra 2E has two beams, a U.K. spot that does not cover Portugal or southern Europe and pan-European transponders that do. Although T.V. via internet is possible and can be excellent, it is very reliant on both your own internet speed and the speed of the server used to supply a U.K. address.

As this can be unreliable, a satellite option is always preferable. Perhaps it is worthwhile to take some extra care before spending on any system, satellite or internet for a couple of months, or at least until there is greater certainty.

Once it’s clear what Sky, BBC and the commercial channels such as ITV actually implement, then will be the time to talk to your installer.

The local satellite installers are well aware of the demands and needs of the expat community and have been testing alternative solutions for some months.

One way or another you are highly unlikely to lose your favourite channels, but the alternatives have already been fully investigated and are ready to go as soon as the situation becomes clear, and that is expected to be late February as channels are transferred to the new Astra 2E and the old satellite is switched off.

*Information contained in this article has been provided by Algarve-based satellite television providers, Sky Realm and S.O.S. Sky Digital

Source

http://theportugalnews.com/news/satellite-television-issue-still-up-in-the-air/30284

[Quillan]

[quote user="basquesteve"]Those who do know are not, as yet, making any information available. Although it is likely to cause some problems in the New Year, there are various solutions, for example via a different satellite with no internet or subscription required. This satellite signal has been tested in Portugal with excellent results, even with a small dish. If we do indeed lose all BBC and ITV channels, (it is rumoured within the industry that Sky may continue to carry channels such as BBC HD on their card-controlled platform) a dish can be re-aligned to another satellite and in conjunction with a different receiver andviewing is restored. [/quote]

Well having spent 30 minutes or more trawling through the Internet the only BBC channel transmitted on other satellites is BBC World. Every other source I have found clearly states that UK TV channels are broadcast on Astra 1N and Astra 2F. I would love to be proved wrong so come on guys tell me I am wrong.

 

[Jako]

[quote] This new satellite does have ‘spot beams’ and it’s likely that some BBC and ITV channels will go on to one of those transponders, but even that is not certain yet.[/quote]

Also wrong, this is certain and confirmed by the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/television/satellite/channels.html

Regarding the 'other satellite' they might mean the BBC backup facility at intelsat 907 (27.5 west) . That transponder is hard to receive with standard equipment , encrypted in BISS and no subscription is possible. However, the BISS encryption is hacked and this feed is used by hobbyists to watch UK TV. The BBC will definitely change encryption as soon as this facility is used by more than a few hobbyists in Portugal , so this is no valid alternative.

[Quillan]

I thought as much. There really is a load of misleading information whizzing round expat forums about this and it usually emanates from so called "Sky approved installation experts" who are "approved" to install systems outside the UK which as far as I am aware is a load of old tosh. They may have been Sky approved before they got on the ferry but once outside the UK it is totally meaningless.

Personally I think they really don’t have a clue and way down the south of Spain etc it will be the end of receiving UK TV via satellite but we shall see.

[Jako]

The long waiting is over, they have pressed the 'fire' button.[B]

Astra2E is now moving towards its final destination at 28.2E.[:D]

[PaulT]

Jako

Any updates?

[Quillan]

It left Somalia cross both Kenya and Uganda and has just entered the Congo. I understand the Somalian pirates tried to board it. [;-)]

I should have said that it is today at 30.58 deg so not far to go.

[PaulT]

Shame the pirates did not get it.

Just been looking back and this has been going on for so long - would have thought a Government Dept was running its deployment.

[Jako]

Astra2e will be in position and expected to be operational this weekend. Moving transponders could start on Monday, should they wish to do so.