What are French schools really like?

[Patf]

It's impossible to compare rates of dislexia in different countries

because there are several different definitions/criteria between places

and over time. Probably determined by the amount of funding available

for remedial help. I worked for 30+ years in this field and when I

started there was a dislexic register of 100s of names. Then when

statementing started there was no such thing - you daren't use the

word. Now the condition exists again. I personally don't like labelling

children and prefer to describe specific difficulties then people can't

say " It's no good - he/she's dislexic." Pat.

[HLG]

it's not based on percentage of recognition in schools but on how

language (itself) affects dyslexi - ie., it's unrelated to the cultural

perception and treatment of the disability.  It's due to the

graphem/phonem relation, essentially. The study was related to the

brain and linguistics...

English actually has the highest incidence of Dyslexia among European

languages; Italian has the slightest. Spanish and French are in-between.

Essentially; English has two big problems for dyslexic children (versus

one in French): for one sound you can write several letter

combinations; AND when you read a letter combination, you have to

choose from a handful of possible sounds! When your brain "scrambles"

combinations, you can imagine that your brain is constantly in

whirl-mode and has so many opportunities ot get you confused! (plus,

it's exhausting). In French, basically, a letter combination is always

pronounced the same way and grammatical analysis takes care of the rest.

(ie., usually "ent" is pronounced "[ã] but in 'ils mangent", it's

actually silent... but if you remember that it's a verb with the

correct verb-ending then it's no problem, it's always silent.

 You

still have to handle the fact one sound = many different letter

combinations. For example, [o] can be written o, ot, eau, au, aud....

I am sorry, I no longer have the actual numbers, but it was like if in

Italian it's "1", in French it's "3", in English it's "10". 

Perhaps the study can be found online?

IUFMs have very different ways of teaching and different required courses.

A good way to explain it is to explain that your child's brain "sees"

letters differently, in the same way that short-sighted kids "see"

differently. "It doesn't mean the child is stupid, if they're

short-sighted... just that they need glasses". Unfortunately there aren't any equivalent to glasses for dyslexic kids.

"orthophonistes" can't "cure" dyslexia but if you're honest, you'll

have to admit that an orthophonist will help a child cope - which is

what they need, anyway. If your "orthophoniste" is worthless, you can

find another one. And they DO work regularly with schools, at least in

towns. Otherwise, you can make a request for "maitre E": they provide

one-on-one tutoring but I have no idea whether they know the slightest

thing about dyslexia or even whether they're qualified.

In a knowledge-centered system, your child's needs aren't as important

as his ability to grasp the requisite knowledge, regardless of how s/he

does it.

[Berlioz]

HLG

I have pm and e-mailed you (in case one did not work).  I am very interested in your views on dyslexia as I am just working my way through a big stack of books on the subject.

Thank you for your help.

Donna

[Teamedup]

In a knowledge-centered system, your child's needs aren't as important as his ability to grasp the requisite knowledge, regardless of how s/he does it.
 

If that were the case than oral tests would be acceptable and no one so far has ever told me that the knowledge that a child has is more important than the ability to write it in good french. In fact writing phonetically will get automatic zeros, it would be a very rare gem of a teacher in France who would even bother checking to see if the work was right in any way. AND I betchya that the head would not allow phonetic work to get say 20, even if all the answers were right.

I await with impatience enlightenment, but have not seen any signs of it as yet. I have heard much a huffing and puffing about it and hot air does not help kids achieve.

The research I was talking about is being done in the IUFM campus in Grenoble and not as part of a IUFM course, it is called something like the laboratoire cogni-science. So there they are on site and in their early years were not even talking to future teachers about their research or problems these future teachers may encounter with all the various dys's that children can have.

Ask for help, I even trailed through to see Dr Zorman, (name well mentioned at said lab and he works for the rectorat too) and he rang around and I heard him saying, is there nothing to do for this boy. He apologised like everyone else and we got absolutely nothing. I have even had french friends calling me since I have been in the UK asking what they should do to get extra help. Easy to get, no it still isn't.

 

[HLG]

By "knowledge-based" I mean that your child, his needs, abilities, and preferences are of no incidence to what is expected.

For a "humorous" (?!?) series of stories you can check out French Toast by

Harriet Welty Rochefort, the chapter is entitled 'schoool daze'.

"oral" answers don't count. "knowledge" means not just bare facts but

the ability to express ideas in correctly written French (later on,

beautifully written French). Unless your child has the ability to

"speak like a book" wrting is better. Spelling counts up to a foruth of

a grqde, only to remove points because good spelling is expected.

Research labs have virtually no contact with teaching institutes -

researchers aren't practicians (can't be). You may want to look into

your local IUFM and call their director to ask who teaches the classes

in learning disabilities. Then this person may be able to direct you

toward une orthophoniste or someone who can help. I've also heard of

special classes in private schools for dyslexic kids. It's all very

round-about. Probably your local chapter of Associaiton Francaise pour la Lecture, they're a good group.

But since knowledge in France implies the ability to express oneself in

written form (it's a major discriminant for natives) there will never

be oral exams replacing written exams - once again, unless a child can

express himself in oral form such as it can make the listener forget

that the child is not reading from the paper he's written in his head.

And even then....

[Dick Smith]

For further examples of types of 'knowledge' see Bloom's Taxonomy of Learning Domains (quite well known in UK schools at least) and his Affective Domains, which are almost unknown, the first being 'knowledge-based' and the latter emotional or needs-based.

It occurs to me, HLG, that the possible reason that there is a higher instance of dyslexia in English than in French is that English has a polysystemic spelling system and French is relatively monosystemic, the difference due to the very high degree of 'borrowings' from other languages in English, all of which have the potential to carry over the spelling rules of the donor language, and the inertia against borrowings in French.

[Teamedup]

HLG, too late for us with the advice. Although believe me I rang everyone I could think of in every part of France and abroad. I would have people saying 'why have you contacted me?' and sometimes they sent me on my way empty handed  or would suggest further contacts, but never what I was looking for, because there was nothing. It quite shocked me at the time, because I always felt sure that there would be something out there.

I was in regular contact with people from apedys and coridys national committee.

Even got in touch with the people who deal with handicaps. Also called the people at Orpierre. You name it and I have probably given it a call.

In the end we got some bilans done by various doctors who specialise in learning problems in various parts of the region and he got the medecine scolaire's lastest test, although we were told that the medecine scolaire had no say in what happened in private schools and the one from hell he was in at the time were not interested. After these bilans he got extra time, but that was far too late to do anything concrete with.

 

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="HLG"]it's not based on percentage of recognition in schools but on how

language (itself) affects dyslexi - ie., it's unrelated to the cultural

perception and treatment of the disability.  It's due to the

graphem/phonem relation, essentially. The study was related to the

brain and linguistics...

English actually has the highest incidence of Dyslexia among European

languages; Italian has the slightest. Spanish and French are in-between.

Essentially; English has two big problems for dyslexic children (versus

one in French): for one sound you can write several letter

combinations; AND when you read a letter combination, you have to

choose from a handful of possible sounds! When your brain "scrambles"

combinations, you can imagine that your brain is constantly in

whirl-mode and has so many opportunities ot get you confused! (plus,

it's exhausting). In French, basically, a letter combination is always

pronounced the same way and grammatical analysis takes care of the rest.

(ie., usually "ent" is pronounced "[ã] but in 'ils mangent", it's

actually silent... but if you remember that it's a verb with the

correct verb-ending then it's no problem, it's always silent.

 You

still have to handle the fact one sound = many different letter

combinations. For example, [o] can be written o, ot, eau, au, aud....

I am sorry, I no longer have the actual numbers, but it was like if in

Italian it's "1", in French it's "3", in English it's "10". 

Perhaps the study can be found online?

[/quote]

Thank you for this very clear explanation. From this it would seem even

more worthwhile to reform the spelling of written English - the time,

trouble, anguish and money saved could be staggering. Of course, this

would need to be offset against the even more staggering amount of

time, trouble anguish and money needed to reprint everything so far

written...

[Jo53]

One crucial thing that British parents must realize is that British schools are child-centered whereas French schools are knowledge-centered.  Also, the teacher is more important than the parent. It will be expected that you be deferrent. If you're not, you may expose yourself or your child to being ignored. Just as, in Japan, you'd bow before a teacher, act according to the native customs.

HLG, your post has perfectly summed up and crystallised for me the reasons why we want to take our kids out of French education. McJules, it's reassuring to know that others have the same impressions of the standard French school system. The Steiner and Freinet schools sound very good, but there is nothing like that around here.

What is more important in life than a child feeling stimulated, encouraged and respected? My bright, curious son hates school and he is seven and a half. He has never, ever once come back from school and said, 'did you know mummy that dinosaurs did X, Y, Z' or talked about something interesting he has learned. I remember very clearly the thrill of learning about things at that age. My son's day is spent copying out passages from books (never writing anything of his own). The British system isn't perfect, but all our friends' and relatives' children of that age at school there are full of enthusiasm and always exploring new themes. The work they do there now seems pretty advanced compared with the standard in our village school here.

We are planning to move back to the UK, and education is the main reason. I know lots of people are very happy with the schooling here, and I'm sure there are good schools. But I realise now that the underlying philosophy of education in France will always run counter to my own beliefs.

 

[HLG]

Jo53 You're right, many French schools aren't about "the joy of

learning" but rather about " the duty of knowing". Hence the word for

homework, "devoirs" (duties). :-) :-)

I feel sorry for your child. Not all classes are boring in France, but

it really depends on the teacher. At least he's not terrified of a

teacher who yells or pushes.

You might want, for the time being, try "what did you like best about today at school?"

After a couple days of answering "nothing", your child will try and pay

attention to that one bright moment and it'll help him get through the

day.

You can also meet (reverently) the High and Mighty Teacher and offer

(o-so-humbly) to come 'round once a week to teach the class a little

song in English (Mary had a little lamb will do - the point being that

your son will associate you+ fun+ school =>  school  can

be good).

There are Freinet schools in about every Département and Freinet

classes about everywhere. They're regular classes in public

schools.  They're NOT advertised by the Education Nationale (which

tolerates them but views them as threatening - gee wonder why? kids who

actually *refuse to leave class because it's so much fun

learning*!!!???!!!! Surely these teachers must drug them or worst!!

Everyone knows kids hate school!) So they're hard to find... most

parents stumble upon them!!!

If you can tell us in which area you are, I can try and look it up

(it's kind of hard to do and I wouldn't know how to explain...)

[Jo53]

HLG - I like your suggestion of asking 'what's the best thing you did at school today?' An excellent open-ended question. I haven't needed to try it yet, as son told me the other day, without prompting, that he was liking school a bit better now. But basically our minds are made up and we are going back; it's primarily a question of the need for work, but the education issue is the thing that has tipped the balance between going back or trying to stay on here somehow or other.

Actually my son's teacher is very good; young and committed, and approachable. And I taught English at the school for two years (gave up due to discipline problems; I really do admire teachers who stand up there at the chalk face all day.) But she is trying to teach four age groups at once, which is a very tall order. And all teachers are bound by the narrow, unadventurous curriculum. My niece of 7 in the UK is into celtic warriors at the moment, having 'done' the Tudors last term. There is really no comparison. Sigh.

BTW, where did you learn the stuff about different educational philosophies? It's interesting.

Jo

[ickythump]

After reading these forums i am really concerned now.  We are supposed to be relocating to live in the Lot region with in a month or two. Our house is sold, we intended to rent whilst looking, we already have seen a couple of properties we like the look of, with an agent we know, on the internet.  Our children are 14, 11, 9.  I was always under the impression that the schools in France were strict, but excellent,  is this untrue? I began to feel sick reading through the posted comments made, I thought I was improving their lives by moving. My children do not know an french yet, my 13 year old does a very miniscule amount at his senior school, I can just about get by, I can read it better than I can speak, but only very basic stuff. I had intended to have home tuition for us all when we arrive.  My son was happy to do extra hours at school to catch up and understood he will most likely be doing an extra year/s.  But to place them into what sounds like a miserable, backward, degrading nightmare, partly because of their age and lack of french, instead of a school that will encourage hard work and be honest ( which I expected), WELL I feel deflated, scared and concerned.  Do you really believe we should not even think of moving to France for our children's sake?[:(]

Ickythump[:|]

[Teamedup]

I can't tell you that I think you will find excellance in France as far as I am concerned it is just another myth perpetuated in the UK. I hear it all the time when I am back, even from teachers. And as far as I am concerned people will tell me all sorts of rubbish about life in France based on no real knowledge of the country or it's people and seem to base their ideas on tv things and holidays.

You will find strict of that I am certain.

 

Saying that, I realise that some posters are happy enough and as I have always said, if your children are brighter than average and can fit into a rigid system then they will be fine. Deviate from that and then my experience is that it is hard to sort things out and help children progress.

My opinions of how things are at school, is based on me never having just taken my own kids as an example. I always took a great interest in the other kids at school with mine and listened to french friends talk about their kids too.  I have  also discussed this with the few english friends I have, none of whom live close by and they have told me of their experiences  and the experiences of their friends.

 

For me it is very odd that you have not all been hard at learning french as soon as you decided on this move, especially your children. They not only have to learn the language now, but learn things in that language. School days are long in France and frankly your children have more free time to learn some french in the UK than they will have in France.

 

 

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="ickythump"]

After reading these forums i am really

concerned now.  We are supposed to be relocating to live in the

Lot region with in a month or two. Our house is sold, we intended

to rent whilst looking, we already have seen a couple of properties we

like the look of, with an agent we know, on the internet.  Our

children are 14, 11, 9.  I was always under the impression that

the schools in France were strict, but excellent,  is this

untrue? I began to feel sick reading through the posted comments

made, I thought I was improving their lives by moving. My children

do not know an french yet, my 13 year old does a very miniscule amount

at his senior school, I can just about get by, I can read it better

than I can speak, but only very basic stuff. I had intended to have

home tuition for us all when we arrive.  My son was happy to do

extra hours at school to catch up and understood he will most likely be

doing an extra year/s.  But to place them into what sounds

like a miserable, backward, degrading nightmare, partly because of

their age and lack of french, instead of a school that will

encourage hard work and be honest ( which I expected), WELL I feel

deflated, scared and concerned.  Do you really believe we should

not even think of moving to France for our children's sake?[:(]

Ickythump[:|]

[/quote]

This is a reply from Mrs JonD as Mr JonD is busy cooking dinner.

I really don't know what to say to make you feel better.  I feel

for you as you are obviously worried, but I think you are right to be

worried.  If you look at it from a teenagers point of view, you

are going to take them out of a system they know and understand. 

Where they might not like their teachers or their lessons, but they at

least have friends and can talk to people. 

I don't want to get into a debate about whether the education system in

the UK or in France is better.  The point is I don't think that

the difference either way is enough to up sticks and move country

for.  If one moves children when they are really young then they

adapt, but older children don't adapt so well (partly becasue they

can't, after about 8 years old the brain looses its ability to generate

a second language centre and has to make do with one for both

languages). 

France is just another country, one which I like very much, but it is

not the promised land.  The same concerns affect people here as

much as in the UK, and children have the same concerns here as they do

in the UK. 

Do you really believe we should not even think of moving to France for our children's sake?  What

benefits in particular do you believe that your children will gain from

being in France?  Is it a question of spending more time with

their parents?  Is it a question of a more convivial enviornment

in which to live?  Is it a question of better life opportunities

for them?  Personally I think these are all valid reasons for a

potential lifestyle change, but do they outweigh the considerable

disruption to yours and your childrens lives that a move to a foreign

country with a foreign language entails?  

If you wish to PM me to ask anything off forum please feel free.

Mrs JonD

[Jo53]

[quote user="ickythump"]

After reading these forums i am really concerned now.  We are supposed to be relocating to live in the Lot region with in a month or two. Our house is sold, we intended to rent whilst looking, we already have seen a couple of properties we like the look of, with an agent we know, on the internet.  Our children are 14, 11, 9.  I was always under the impression that the schools in France were strict, but excellent,  is this untrue? I began to feel sick reading through the posted comments made, I thought I was improving their lives by moving. My children do not know an french yet, my 13 year old does a very miniscule amount at his senior school, I can just about get by, I can read it better than I can speak, but only very basic stuff. I had intended to have home tuition for us all when we arrive.  My son was happy to do extra hours at school to catch up and understood he will most likely be doing an extra year/s.  But to place them into what sounds like a miserable, backward, degrading nightmare, partly because of their age and lack of french, instead of a school that will encourage hard work and be honest ( which I expected), WELL I feel deflated, scared and concerned.  Do you really believe we should not even think of moving to France for our children's sake?[:(]

Ickythump[:|]

[/quote]

I think you have to treat it as an experiment. Make the move, see how it goes, and be prepared to go back if things aren't working out educationally (or otherwise) after a couple of years. Thinking of it as an irreversible move that must work at all costs will weigh you down with anxiety (I'm not saying that you personally are necessarily thinking like that, but some people do).

It may work out fine. We have British friends who are very happy with the French educational system. On the other hand, you may decide after a time that it's been an adventure, but isn't right for you long-term. We are going back, but we don't regret our 4 years here at all. Our children are bilingual (though we'll have to work hard at keeping up their French in the coming years) and have a broader outlook on life than if they had never lived abroad. Having said that, they were very young when we came over. I think there are more serious issues about moving older children, which others on this forum would be able to reassure you about or otherwise but I cannot.

If you really want to make the move, the only thing is to 'suck it and see'. I know how scary it is when your children's lives are in your hands, and it's natural to get cold feet before a big move. I think what we have found out about ourselves is that a big property, lovely countryside, etc, although very enjoyable, do not make you happy in themselves once the novelty has worn off. Only you can weigh up whether you think you will be able to find the really important things in life - close friendships, sense of belonging, opportunities for your children, things you enjoy doing - by moving.

Jo

[godwinsj]

There are definitely no easy answers! What I can say is that the Catholic (private) system is more PC & more caring than the state one & is more supportive of foreigners as of course this is part of their philosophy & mission statement.

Chillingly enough, state schools are run by the state to produce a people that are brainwashed by indifferent teachers who are trained to be civil servants & have had no actual input in educational theory at all. 

Our family have had some very bad experiences: for instance the village primary bullied the 2 boys unmercifully & told me if I wanted an education for them to take them back to the UK! The oldest, who came into the primary in his final year was pointlessly held back a year & then I was told he had to go to SEGPA which is a sin bin run on the lines of old fashioned Borstals for non-achievers & kids with learning/behavioural problems. This means for instance that a deaf child is in the same class as a poor boy who has suffered gross brain damage in the same accident which killed his parents and a bully who is always in trouble with the police.

My eldest son had been diagnosed with problems with his short-term memory although he has an IQ of 141. The Inspector for Education for the Mayenne with whom I spent a very trying hour informed me that he belonged in SEGPA along with all other English kids as he considered they were so handicapped by not having French as amother tongue. It was only when a social worker told us with about 4 hours to go to the end of the summer term that it was up to us whether he went to SEGPA or not that we dashed into the local collège & registered him there!

The youngest was not taught a single thing during his 3 years in école maternelle but is now in the local BIG Catholic school and is a year ahead. My daughter has worked harder than I would have though possible & has profited from the system: she is now doing an International Bac in 44. I think however that she is one of the very few who have come at 12 and managed to adapt and get on.

What I would say is:-

• Go to the nearest big Catholic schools
• avoid village state primaries
• use the extensive system of private tuition that exists in France from home tutors to summer schools. (This is what the wealthy people do to help their kids!)
• learn French yourself or find someone who can speak it fluently and take the teachers on! I did - it is possible to answer back to the French establishment!
• find collèges & lycées that offer European/American/British brevets & bacs. This means that your kids will be able to use their English skills to their best advantage

[Viv]

 

Wow, godwinsj, that's quite some statement!

I have found my daughters state school to be both very caring and very supportive, some of the teachers bought some special books for her whilst shopping on their day off!

I don't find state teachers indifferent and she's certainly not being brainwashed.

By all means bang the gong for religious schools all you want, but please don't tar all state schools with the same brush!

 

 

[Tourangelle]

[quote user="godwinsj"]

There are definitely no easy answers! What I

can say is that the Catholic (private) system is more PC & more

caring than the state one & is more supportive of foreigners as of

course this is part of their philosophy & mission statement.

Chillingly enough, state schools are run by the state to produce a people that are brainwashed by indifferent teachers who are trained to be civil servants & have had no actual input in educational theory at all. 

[/quote]

I am sorry that you have personally had such a negative experience,

obviously everybody has different experiences.  However your

assertation that teachers are trained to be civil servents etc is

false.  This is simply not the case, teachers are trained to be

teachers and it is very similar to training in the UK.  Obviously

the curriculum is not the same, but the way training is done is very

similar.  The training which is given to teachers in private

schools and those in public schools in terms of their subject area is

identical.

[Teamedup]

godwinsj, our son has a similar problem with short term memory apart from his dyslexia and a high IQ.

We 'did' state and private education with him. We got through 4 different private  schools in just over 4 years. What I found was that the directors of the private schools would be full of soft words and understanding and then when he started with them their treatment of him, well by the the first three at least, was just the same as the last state school he had been to who had washed their hands of him. The forth was a great disappointment as the director had aspirations of trying to help kids like my son, some of his staff did, others most firmly did not. They 'let' this Director go at the end of the year. The powers that be didn't approve of such things.

And yes we had going to a  SEGPA section suggested.  I know too many bright kids who are planted in there because there was no where else. And I know a really nice lady that works in a SEGPA at a local town, what she tells me about some of the things she does with the kids  and knowing her I am sure that she is well intentioned but from my point of view she sounds like a victorian talking about her class.

Tourangelle, if the teacher training methods are similar, please tell me what exactly happens in that leap between learning to teach and being in front of a class to just give a lesson. I have been lucky enough to meet with a very few who haven't done that little leap and are great teachers and are interested in the kids learning. But most have not been like that and have not hesitated to tell me that they are only there to give their lessons.

[SaligoBay]

[quote user="Tourangelle"][I am sorry that you have personally had such a negative experience, obviously everybody has different experiences.  However your assertation that teachers are trained to be civil servents etc is false.  This is simply not the case, teachers are trained to be teachers and it is very similar to training in the UK.  [/quote]

I beg to differ, Tourangelle.  There are very young teachers (under 30) in the French state system who think that ripping pages out of workbooks and screaming at pupils, and (for CP) smacking them on the bottom, is a perfectly normal way to treat small people. In the UK it's not.  Someone in a post recently mentioned Sellotaping children's mouths closed.  That is French, it's not British! 

My son was threatened with being expelled from his primary school here in France, and I can assure you that he is NOT a bad child.  The teacher just had no training whatsoever in dealing with anything out of the ordinary.

 

[Debra]

.

[Mistral]

I think Tourangelle went through her teacher training more recently than me, so she is probably more up to date with what happens in an IUFM but I felt that in the one year I spent as a stagiaire much more emphasis was put on the actual subject and on teaching it the "correct" way (i.e the way the inspector wants) than on different techniques or adapting to the pupils. I sometimes watch Teachers TV and I'm amazed by the ideas and discussions that seem normal in the UK.  A recent discussion in the staff room came to conclusion that most of us are "self-taught". Most teachers I know are frustrated by this. We know that we are faced with with kids that need our help and we have no idea how to help them.

 I think teacher attitudes are as varied as teachers themselves. Part of the problem in the state system comes from the fact that there are still people who choose teaching because it's a civil service job and not because they actually want to teach.

The SEGPA discussion is a difficult one. My last school had a SEGPA and the criterium for pupils was a "echec scolaire massif et durable" In my academie, if teachers want a pupil to go to SEGPA, first they must see the parents and get their permission for a psycologist's report (I have known situations where the psy has decided that the pupil's IQ is too high to go into SEGPA) if the psy report is postitive then there is a teacher's report. All these elements are collected together along with others before the commission de SEGPA who actually decide (there are 2 per year) it is impossible to put a child in SEGPA without the parents' permission. I've seen pupils blossom once they went into SEGPA. You could see how much they were suffering in the "normal" system. My worry/frustration is that when a pupil is having difficulties, some teachers immediately label him SEGPA material. They can't cope, don't want to cope and pass the problem on to someone else, even if the SEGPA isn't the solution. The system is so rigid that it's very difficult to adapt to any child who has "different" needs. In my current school, we don't have a SEGPA but a 3eme Insertion (not the same thing at all- but still for pupils with difficulties) and it's amazing the percentage of non French speaking pupils in it. OK, so maybe a child who is having trouble following the curriculum needs extra help, but if it's because of language difficulties, then the help should be there.

 

[tetley]

this is a very interesting topic.  I was the one who posted about the scellotaping of mouths..it happened for the first 2 weeks of term  in what I can only assume was a 'you are in my classroom, and while you are you abide by my rules!' thing...she has now settled down and shouts if she wants to.....I had my doubts at the beginning, but she has become very approachable and asked my advice about a few things, and suggested at end of Feb that my daughter be moved down to CE1...which I am happy about as I was surprised that she had been put in her proper age group from day 1.  She is coping much better now, and is coming along great.  My son on the other hand, in CM1, is taught by the directrice...which I thought at the beginning was ok, but it seems she has little time to spend with my son, so he spends alot of time on his own with a worksheet.  But he is doing ok.

I worked as an LSA in  2 primary schools before I left the UK, and had alot of respect for the teaching staff there.  I have been watching with interest what happens at the school my children are at.  It seems that the teachers DO have alot of commitment to the pupils..they cover all the breaks, go on outings, and have said they are always willing to see parents at the end of the day.  But, my interpretation of the previous threads is that the teachers don't seem to have any training on how to deal with children who may need just a little bit more help/support/care than the average child..and I feel I have to agree.

[Chrisb]

[quote user="SaligoBay"]

My son was threatened with being expelled from his primary school here in France, and I can assure you that he is NOT a bad child.  The teacher just had no training whatsoever in dealing with anything out of the ordinary.

[/quote]

I am having the same problem at the moment......I will be the first to admit that my son , who is in CM2, can be a bit cheeky, but nothing terrible, however we have a weekly bilan, cosisting of 13 bullet points which are marked with a 'traffic light system' of green,orange or red dots. These include things such as talking back to the teacher, turning round, not putting his hand up, tipping back on his chair, going to to loo in lesson time etc etc. all of which, I admit, can be disrupting to a class, but it makes me feel that she is always on his back, and the slightest thing gets an orange or red mark. Interestingly, he had a replacement teacher for the whole of January, and she asked why he had a bilan because she thought his behaviour was absolutely fine, and had no problems with him, whatsoever.
My son, by the way, absolutely loves his school, and can't really see what all the fuss is about!!

Chris

 

[godwinsj]

Tourangelle - I have taught in the UK 11-19 from 1976, & have an M.A in Education & I have taught in France as well and it seems to me that the French teachers I have met have very little idea of actually HOW to impart ideas, information etc or how to organise & control a classroom of kids.

Obviously there are dedicated teachers who by their commitment & charisma make a real difference. I am very happy that my youngest came across one in CE1 or I feel that we too would have joined the trek back to the UK. He is left handed and the village primary wanted him assessed & statemented because of this! As for SEGPA I would advise any parents NEVER to accept sending their kids there. It has been described bu surveillants & teachers alike to me as for 'les enfants perdus'.