HLG

Hi Mistral, Sorry to come up in the forum but I remember how we'd discussed the very different ways the DP6 classes had been interpreted in our respective areas. It seems our case is not unique - here's the article I go - it's in French but if parents are interested I can translate. les dérapages du dispositif Découverte professionnelle DP6    " La diversité des situations existantes sur le terrain tient principalement aux profils des élèves admis dans les classes de troisième à module de découverte professionnelle ; à la mobilisation des équipes autour d’une pédagogie de projet permettant aux élèves de construire de nouveaux apprentissages à partir de situations concrètes en relation avec le monde du travail ; à l’existence et à la nature des partenariats établis par les établissements avec leur environnement économique et social afin de mettre les élèves en contact avec des métiers relevant de plusieurs champs professionnels et de les aider à affiner progressivement leurs projets d’orientation… Force est de constater que, dans de nombreux établissements, la situation existante vis-à-vis de ces paramètres est significativement éloignée des orientations pédagogiques préconisées par l’arrêté du 14 février 2005". Plus d'un an après leur généralisation, le rapport des inspecteurs généraux René Cahuzac, Raymond Riquier et Jacques Thierry, montre que les classes à module de découverte professionnelle (appelées couramment DP6 pour les distinguer des classes à option découverte professionnelle) s'éloignent des objectifs annoncés initialement.   Présentées comme un remède à l'échec scolaire par une orientation anticipée vers le lycée professionnel, les classes DP6 accueillent en fait, parmi leurs 32 000 élèves, à coté d'élèves scolairement fragiles et envisageant la voie professionnelle ou ayant un projet professionnel précis, une majorité de jeunes relevant de dispositifs spécifiques, des décrocheurs qui devraient bénéficier des dispositifs relais et des élèves perturbateurs exclus de leur collège. "Il faut bien admettre qu’une certaine confusion, quant au profil des élèves auxquels s’adressent les classes de troisième à module de découverte professionnelle, a pu exister sur le terrain lors de la préparation de rentrée 2005. L’arrêté du 2 juillet 2004, en effet, ne fait état pour ces classes que d’élèves en grande difficulté. C’est l’arrêté du 14 février 2005 qui positionne ces classes pour des élèves volontaires prêts à se remobiliser autour d’un projet de formation dans les voies professionnelle, générale ou technologique" rappelle le rapport   La filière sert également souvent de variable d'ajustement du service des enseignants ce qui conduit parfois à des organisations des enseignements aberrantes. Dans ces circonstances, le rapport souligne les difficultés de mise en place de projets pédagogiques spécifiques. " Le plus souvent, les projets pédagogiques des classes de troisième à module de découverte professionnelle se réduisent à un descriptif de la distribution des enseignements et des activités prévues ou à une collection de comptes rendus de réunions de l’équipe éducative".   Les relations avec le monde professionnel semblent souvent superficielles alors qu'elles justifiaient au démarrage le projet. "L’implication des milieux professionnels dans le projet de formation peut être qualifiée d’extrêmement variable selon les établissements… Leur apport s’inscrit plus en juxtaposition des autres activités de découverte professionnelle qu’en véritable accompagnement de la construction du projet d’orientation des jeunes". Enfin le rapport signale que l'intégration de ces classes dans les politiques territoriales n'a pas été pensée. "Une clarification urgente s’impose pour que ces classes implantées en lycée professionnel cessent d’être en « exterritorialité »". Il s'agit en effet de classes de collège, relevant des conseils généraux, mais implantées en lycée professionnel, ceux-ci dépendant des conseils régionaux… Quelque soit l'implication forte des équipes éducatives, toutes ces contraintes structurelles jouent contre le dispositif.   Finalement le rapport ne souligne que deux faits positifs : un relatif succès de la prise de conscience de la problématique professionnelle dans l'orientation, les attentes des familles envers le système éducatif. Que reste-il de l'idée de départ ? Sans doute uniquement la question de la réussite de tous les élèves. En principe la solution apportée devait être trouvée dans le socle commun. Mais très vite on a vu F. Fillon, puis G. de Robien, abandonner l'idée du socle et même la scolarité obligatoire jusqu'à 16 ans. De fait les classes DP6 risquent fort de se transformer en espaces de relégation. Ce premier rapport doit alerter sur le maintien de ce dispositif. ---- Summary found on the Café Pédagogique's website, with full report here http://www.education.gouv.fr/cid4692/le-module-de-decouverte-professionnelle.html

AB, B, and TB are "mentions" or honours the child received. AB is "with honours", B is "with high honours" and TB is "with highest honours". The brevet is graded but (as Mistral explained) the final grade is a summary of all marks received over two years plus the examination. Pupils who obtain a "B" or "TB" receive special advantages  although I'm not sure what. :) (Mistral?) Note that marks change value as you change classes. The lower the class, the higher the "normal" mark. Right now, fewer than 1% of bac-takers get a general score of 16. The median mark in the Humanities is around 8 and is around 9-10 in the sciences.  In primary school, a 16 merely indicates good work (18s and 20s are given to indicate excellence/superb work for the level.) 8-10 is BAD NEWS.  In collège,  a 16 is not exceptional but excellent nevertheless. The bac represents what a "man of letters" is supposed to know; "culture générale" and "esprit critique". Well, what a teenager with normal intelligence, diligence, and curiosity; should know, especially in ways of thinking. Since you can't cut "thinking" into little pieces, it's all or nothing. But each student can choose a "major", their "filière", depending on their academic or professional interests.

I second Thibault's suggestion above. It's a terrific museum - I wouldn't have thought so but it's worth the visit. They have age-appropriate material for children and teens, too.

The 1940-1945 period is considered an essential part of French history to the point of obsession and "devoir de memoire" is very, very, very strong for that period. At school, it's covered in Troisieme, Premiere, and Terminale (part of philosophy class.) It's fairly recent though. I had a historiography class about it, so if you want to follow me... :-) It went in three phases: first, roughly 1945-1970, the "myth" that everyone really was a resister was set up. Mostly it was created because France was in the midst of a civil war and there had to be SOMETHING to recreate national unity. The focus was on the military aspects. not much if anything taught in schools. In 1970 the "myth" was shattered both by Paxton and by Ophuls. The focus turned to collaborators and deportation of the Jews. Subject integrated to the national curriculum and kept as part of "exam years" to ensure it will be taught in detail. In the late 1980s the concept of "duty to remember" was coined and there wasn't a year without a film about the period. In 1985, on prime time TV, Lanzman's documentary SHOAH was shown over several weeks and the term "Shoah" adopted.  In the past few years January 27 (date of Auschwitz' liberation) has been dedicated to crimes against humanity and genocides (Shoah, Rwanda, Cambodia, it depends.) Glorification, mortification, obsession: the book "A past that won't pass" discusses how "duty to remember" came to be. Now the obsession seems to turn since the Algerian War has become the focus of the "repressed past". 1940-1945 history in French schools is... French-centric . And it really only exists as 1939-1945, never as 1939-1940. :) The British only appear on cue, to rescue the derelict French army in Dunkirk (one thing that sticks out in my memory: French soldiers in the Maginot Line refused to give their weapons to the Germans *after their officers had surrendered*, stayed there several days until their own officers promised to courtmarshall and shoot them for unsubordination, "escaped" their officers and ran to Dunkirk with their weapons.They drop them to get into small boats that will take them to safety.) So the 1940 campaign is seen as a major leadership disaster, from the Maginot line concept proper to the general June 1940 situation.  Churchill hardly appears and the Blitz isn't very big in their texts although both are mentioned and discussed ("London alone did not fall"). London is mostly known as the place whence Charles de Gaulle did his "appel du 18 juin": "Ici Londres, les Francais parlent aux Francais". On the other hand, if the Blitz isn't big, they don't really focus on the bombings in France either and not really on the campaign (except to disparage officers - there's even a saying "etre en retard d'une guerre", meaning "to be very, very, very slow on the uptake", coming from that time.) I also remember seeing an image depicting the French equipment - they had 1/100th the number of German planes, something ridiculous like this, because the officers didn't believe planes were important except for observation.... and everything along those lines (ie., willing soldiers but incompetent officers, poor choice of material, no strategy + the Army still aristocratic, antisemitic, antirepublican... There's much background given about the fascist leagues of France, one famous guy said the defeat was a "diving surprise" apparently and he was popular with Army officers!) The main focus is on l'Occupation - those in government who chose to collaborate, those who in their private lives chose to collaborate, the resisters (armed or not - I think they're slowly taking into account women's roles), and those who didn't know what to think and did nothing, plus the increasing mistreatment and deportation of Jews. Also the difference between nazi-occupied France and the new "French State" known as "Vichy" (as opposed to the French Republic). At the end, D-Day is presented (as a British, Canadian, and American endeavor, and not like saving Private Ryan would have us think, a purely American initiative. :->) + the fighting& the dead,  the "Das Reich" column and Oradour are also discussed (perhaps more than in other parts, since Oradour isn't that far away from here, I think???) The "devoir de memoire" duty is to make kids realize that these people could be us and what they did could be our own choices, to discuss how propaganda functions. I'd say that few points are left out, except perhaps the "cleansing" in 1945 (although I believe they do show pictures of nakes, shaved women dragged in the street.) And I don't think they present that period as a quasi-civil-war. Otherwise, the "duty to remember" aspect makes it almost blasphemous not to treat that period thoroughly. If you feel like a fun recap of this through film: start with Jeux Interdits, then La Grande vadrouille, then Lacombe Lucien and Les guichets du Louvre, then Au revoir les enfants, Les enfants de Chavagnes, La bicyclette bleue, and Monsieur Batignole. This last film shows really, really well the more recent "consciousness": French responsibilities, absence of heroism, day-to-day difficulties, degrees of antisemitism*, propaganda mechanisms, etc. Batignole is essentially a guy who could have become a B*** and came to realize what was happening purely out of -what he considers bad- luck; and even when he knows what's going on, he doesn't really want to act, even though his inner good guy kicks in, pulling him apart from his family and his interests (financial, social...) NO heroism, no grandeur, no "myth" in there. *(There's a foul French guy who's a nazi mouthpiece, who writes hateful propaganda really wants to kill Jews, but Batignole himself, the "regular guy", isn't blameless either with his greed, callous disregard, and ignorance.) It is also very interesting in relation to the  civil disobedience movement taking place against "children roundups" or "chasse a l'enfant" as it's been called. It's been pointed out many times that, once again, as long as 'random strangers' were being picked up by the police, no one moved, but now that kids are being taken (even if it's not to be killed, it's still "deportation"), random people are reacting and thwarting the governement efforts. While the children's situation surely is different, the basic reaction comes from the same place, I think.  

Mistral: Apologies for going from factual to derogatory. Yes I was speaking of the DP6. It's not so much 'getting rid of' as... trying something else, hoping it'll work, because it seems everything else has been tried already and the pupils are spiraling down, taking everyone down along with them. I won't name the LP then, but the criteria there are essentially: kids who are 15 and have been in an atelier-relais or a classe-relais already but can'treturn to their regular collège. Are also admitted kids who were already in their "4e" -- and the pupils in that "quatrième" (there was only one for the collège-catchment area) I am sorry to say, WERE children who were noxious to their classmates (and themselves), so had been sent there in the hope the new setting would help them. What I take from your post is that the situation depends on the particular school and its policies. It probably also depends on how "bad" the situation is overall. The classe-relais I know is probably worse than average but my notion of "dumping ground" stemmed from the "special quatrième" recruitment plus the fact that LP's DP6 was seen as the class for the "classe-relais" kids who had *not* been admitted into a CAP/BEP program or had not been accepted back into their original school but were not 16 yet. (The class in question was comprised of 7 teens, including two boys who were notorious drug dealers and enjoyed showing off how they paid their "pain au chocolat" - 50 centimes- with large currency bills, one girl who, it turned out, was forced to prostitute herself by her boyfriend, and another girl who could be charming or violent depending on the day and would have needed counseling as she was probably bipolar but it wasn't available because she wasn't a bad-enough case. Other than that they were all pleasant enough teens and while I can see how they would have driven their teachers mad in a large group, they weren't "savages" as some media would have it. Their families were alsoutterly overwhelmed plus two which were, in my opinion, in and by themselves "toxic". The young dealers' families were also, alas, dependent on their money, which would limit parental legitimacy...)  

Hi Pixie, Depending on how eager your son is, it could be a nightmare or merely challenging. French children take a test called "brevet" which, in my humble opinion, is pretty stupid, in that anyone with passing marks is certain to have it whereas teenagers with all-around low-marks have no chance. It doesn't affect your getting to the lycee, since passing it is too low to predict success at an academic lycee while failing it means the pupil is pretty much failing everything, which all knew. This may change with the "new Brevet" but here I'll refer to those out there who teach in "collège". It's taken around age 14-15 (16 in case of repeated years.) The Brevet, as of now, includes marks from Quatrieme and Troisieme (last two years of lower secondary), plus a test including: French (short dictation; reading comprehension of a page-long moderately literary text; composition: writing a few paragraphs on a given topic which may be based on the reading comprehension such as 'write what happens next'; grammatical analysis - recognize the subject, why is the present tense used there, etc ); math (geometry, basic trig, algebra); history/geography/civics (mostly 20th century history-WWI, Soviet Revolution, Krach of 1929, Front Populaire, New Deal,  WWII, decolonization, September 11...-  and European geography.) After Troisieme, pupils can start a professional course (BEP, Bac Pro) but they've got to choose their track carefully: some are much sought-after, such as cooking, watch-making, musical-instrument-making, etc..., some virtually garantee a job offer after diploma - such as bakery, plumbing, etc- and some are dead-end tracks where all the most 'unteachable' youth are lumped. Some pupils can start a "Professional discovery" Troisieme or even Quatrieme but, to be brutally honest, kids sent to these classes tend to be the ones teachers can't handle and are "desperate cases". I hope I won't shock parents out there by saying this. :-0 A nice option open to 16 year olds is l'apprentissage - apprenticeship. You can go all the way to a professional university degree with this, as long as you choose your path wisely. The pupils have about 13-15 weeks of class and only 5 weeks of (paid) holidays, the rest of the time being on-the-job training. They receive a modest stipend for it and take exams every other year on "general knowledge" (French, English, math, history/geography/civics, health...) and "professional knowledge". From what you're saying, your son would be very keen on attending a French school. Perhaps, as someone suggested, you may enroll him for a term in a "quatrieme" near your holiday home and see how it goes. (Quatrieme is when more abstract concepts are introduced but has no exams - unlike Troisieme, which has the brevet.) Problem: there are only 2 weeks of classes left (barely).. don't know if you could arrange it... If you can wait for next year (Winter term perhaps?) it may be easier but then he may be too old for Quatrieme (most children will be 14, some 15, some even 13.)  If he's still enthusiastic, he could enter Troisieme in the following term and decide on whether he's interested in an apprenticeship, a professional school, or an academic career path after that. The end of Troisieme is the first time pupils can choose whether to leave the academic track for apprenticeships or professional tracks (such as BEP.) The year that follows Troisieme, Seconde, is still fairly general, but at the end it's a guillotine-like decision: whatever you qualify for (or don't) is pretty much irreversible. It's unheard-of to go from a BEP to a Premiere S to become a doctor, for example.    

Hi SaligoBay, Depending on how your son feels, you may want to investigate the "college de la maronne" in Saint Martin de Valmeyroux, Cantal. Downside: it's a boarding school, so your son would be at school 5 days a week (and I have no idea how easy the train ride is from Cantal to your area.) Upside: it's a public boarding school designed for children with a curious mind and whom the traditional system can't handle (or whose parents feel the traditional system is stiffling them). Children have individualized study plans and lots of interdisciplinary workshops - especially well-suited for children who learn differently, whether they are gifted or not. (The gifted kids are not in a special section but mixed in with everybody else.) There are no "classes" in that pupils are grouped depending on interests or according to their level. They do prepare the Brevet like all other French pupils. The school only has about 60 students, 30 of whom are "internes". I don't know what children have to do to apply, probably a motivation letter explaining why they're unhappy with their current school and why they'd learn better in the environment provided by the "college de la maronne".  

Thanks to all who helped! Donna and I are in touch again. :-)

Been trying to reach you ! But emails are sent back. Can you email/PM again so I can send my message again? Thanks  

I've been trying to think of shows that are popular with teens. Pop music is always a good topic  when you don't know the person (except that they're 10-14.) You can see what's popular in France right now - there should be a lot of overlap with what's playing in the UK. Plus you can become a much-sought-after classmate for being able to actually write down the words to popular songs - and even tell them what they're about!!!! Popular programs: "A la recherche de la nouvelle star" on M6 and "Star Academy" (called "la star ac", subject of many teen conversations about favorite would-be pop singers.) http://nouvellestar.m6.fr/html/emissions/nouvelle_star/index.shtml http://www.m6music.com/html/musique/hitmachine/index.shtml TV: Shows on TV that teens may be able to watch (ie., in the 4-7pm range, afterschool programs) include: Law and Order; JAG; Lost; Rubi (a telenovella with lots of love triangles); Un, dos, tres (a kind of Spanish "Fame" - teens in a dance/singing school). Summerland, "les freres Scott' (aka One tree hill) They may also watch a French soap called "plus belle la vie" which is on F3 and takes place in Marseille - it's developed quite a following, including a website, chats, etc, etc! http://plus-belle-la-vie.france3.fr/index.php3 http://www.m6.fr/html/series/rubi/index.shtml http://www.m6kid.fr/ The most popular cartoon among 10-14 year olds is "Totally Spies". Also popular: "les zinzins de l'espace", "foot 2 rue", "recess".... Some parents may be able to give you more info on whether 13-year olds actually watch those... and how cool it is to admit you do. :-)    

Did I mention the "MJC" and bibliotheque municipale? Those have activities for teens. Some French that you may use with peers * "trop" is used like "totally". Like, "trop bien" is "totally cool". "It sucks" = "c'est trop nul". C'est de la balle = it's da bomb. (ie., still used but a bit dated). * To emphasize something, the subject is repeated twice "La prof de maths, elle est trop nulle". * You can also shorten it to "trop nulle, la prof de maths". "trop mignon ce mec" would be in proper English "this boy looks good". :-) And in proper French: Ce garçon est assez beau. * a guy, a bloke = un mec, un keum, un type, un gars, un bouffon (a "bouffon" is generally a nerd, although is literally means "bufoon".) A bully is "un ca-id", pronounced kah-yeed. These don't usually pick on girls though and they are few and far between in the area you're going to. * to get someone away from you: Dégage crétin/ bouffon/ patate ("buzz off" + pick your insult based on the one you can pronounce with a straight face.) Slutty girls (or who are implied to be) are insulted with "taspé" or "pétasse", not that I'd recommend the practice as it can easily backfire. "Pauvre tache", pronounced povtash, means literally "you dirty stain" and indicates lots of contempt. ;-) * This said, French schools tend to be much more pacified, overall and especially in Vienne, than English schools. :-) ;-) :-) Added bonuses: * NO UNIFORM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! * NO ASSEMBLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! * NO RELIGIOUS EDUCATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! * WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON ENTIRELY FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!        

PS: I've been told the schools in the Civray township are the envy of the entire region because there's some kind of company that generates millions and thus  they have to pay taxes on the money they make, most of which goes into the schools. There's also a superb pool complex if you like swimming, with a deep-diving tank. To practice your French, you can try and see if you can watch French TV - look for your favorite shows but watch them in French. Friends in French is funny-weird! They also have "Even Stevens" and other Nick shows.

Hi Devon, What is the town/city closest to your village? Like: Poitiers (big city with a university), Chauvigny (small town)...? Since you are 13 you'd probably be put in the class called "Cinquième". Depending on the school you'd attend, they may have a "CLA" (or class for students who come from non-French-speaking countries) or you may get some tutoring - your parents can ask anyway. If they don't offer it, see if you can get "cours particuliers" (you stick a paper at the boulanger's, but you've got to use the same boulanger consistently!) or through a private company like Keepschool or Acadomia. School will probably end at 4.30 or 5pm, then time for "gouter" (Nutella and French bread or if you're 'raisonable', apples and yoghurt) and homework. :) You'll have all of Wednesday afternoon and Saturday for your favorites activities though. Good luck and don't hesitate to PM me if you need help.

For stylo-plume, I recommend the PILOT "calligraphie" ones, with the plume fine or plume moyenne. Even if your child's handwriting isn't the greatest, the pen makes it superb! Practice a bit with you child before school starts. For maternelle, if your child stays the full day, you might want to put knickers (underpants) in a small plastic bag rolled at the bottom of your child school satchel. The satchel/rucksack/backpack is usually small and cute.There are no books to carry and the school will give your child the notebook needed.  To make the child feel important (carrying an empty school bag is kind of undignified for a 4-year-old going to school :->), you may want to place a cahier and a little trousse with a pen, a couple pencils,  'craies grasses' or sort of... plastic coloured pencils, not with wood and lead... You may also add une ardoise (slate with pen, or white erasable board ~ 8X10 with an erasable marker...) Nothing's mandatory though. A little gouter (juice box, a few cookies, apple slices..) may be expected at some schools. Some schools serve the morning gouter, others expect kids to bring something for the whole class once a month, other schools just let kids bring whatever they want for themselves. Best of luck to you and your children! Enjoy! :-)

HI, As explained above, the Fables de La Fontaine represent Classicism in its easier form. Pupils could have Racine or Corneille but they'd be scratching their heads wondering what in the world it means (I only figured out Racine when I was 18 and Corneille disgusted me - what, kill your best friend just because the king asks??). At least they can make sense of the meaning in La Fontaine. They are likely to encounter the Fables again in Seconde or Premiere, where they'll have to use them as examples of how Classicism differs from other literary styles (since fables have been written... 'since the dawn of time'...); what values were important in the times of Louis XIV; use Rousseau's criticism of the Fables to discuss changing ways of seeing children/education. Psychology tests have even been drawn to evaluate children's maturity based on what characters from La Fontaine they agreed with (for example, children who identify with the free, hungry wolf rather than with the content dog are likely to be tweens/teens already. I don't remember what the "cigale" or the "fourmi" meant...) Although I haven't seen it done, you could even have education civique debates with them - like: do you agree with the selfish but hard-working fourmi, or do you agree with the carefree cigale? Isn't the cigale selfish too, expecting to be bailed out by the fourmi? Is the fourmi just in enjoying the rewards of her work, if she lets her neighbor die? How has the modern state figured out a way to keep both fourmis and cigales happy? It's really fascinating if you think those fables were originally meant to teach the future king about his duties ... What kind of morale did the little King-in-training get! And now all children get to be educated like king used to be... :-) :-) ;-)