Losing touch with my son if we move to France

[Grimaud dreamer]

We are planning to move to France in the next couple of years when our son will be 5  or 6 years old.   I have many concerns...born worrier.  One of which is whether I will lose touch with my son as he becomes French - as his language skills develop and his peers will be french speaking, I feel I may lose the bond.  I won't be able to help with his homework and relate to his friends in the way I would do in England.  I also worry that if we are not in a large town or city he will not have the educational and recreational opportunities he would have in the UK.  We don't plan to be particularly rural, however France is such a big country that smaller towns could be a couple of hours from a city or large town and as he becomes a teenager that could be seen by him as a disadvantage.  Do any parents who have made the move have any words of wisdom - am I worrying unneccessarily?

[Panda]

If you look in the education threads you will see lots of info that will help.

Personally I would never have dreamt of moving over without a clear intention of learning the language to such an extent that you can help with homework and interact with friends.

It's tough for kids in french school and he will need you to understand, to help him and to fight his corenr when necessary.

I have made my thoughts known on here in the education and moving threads, I have returned to the UK due to my opinion of the French rural education system so for me it's large town or not at all, but that's just my opinion!

If you go to a large town or city you can attend Uni and study French, that way you will be able to help and won't get cut off. You will be surprised at how quickly you can pick up a language when you study 24 hours a week. Those who study 1 or 2 hours a week are wasting their time, again just my opinion.

Last point, your son will never become French!

[Sprogster]

Me again!

I think you will find that the majority of the members of this forum are either retirees or second home owners, probably because whilst France is a great country to go on holiday or retire to, it is a very difficult place to make a living in, especially if you are not fluent in the language.

At your son's age there is little risk to his education in giving it a go and of course if things don't work out you can always move elsewhere. Meanwhile, I would read Panda's previous posts, as her views on the French education system through first hand experience are very interesting.

[NormanH]

An interesting example in the other way is an ex- business partner of mine, who was married to a French lady, and was very concerned that his children were becoming 100% French.

The family moved back to the UK 8 years ago, and after an unfortunate separation  18 months ago the oldest child (a boy ) has stayed in the UK for "A"levels and Uni, while the two younger ones (both girls) have returned to France with their mother.

All the family are bilingual now, but the son saw greater opportunity in the UK, while the two girls are looking more towards the support of an extended family

[Kitty]

There are lots of British families in France.  I am one of them with 4 of my children here.  They are still English (or English/Welsh) despite being bilingual.

One of my friends has a son aged 25, who has been in France (including going through the French education system) for nearly 20 years.  He is very proud to be British.

Take a look at some of the threads in the Education section:

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/206/ShowForum.aspx

They make interesting reading and will help you form your decision making.

[Grimaud dreamer]

Thanks for that.  I do actually speak French.  I studied it to A Level and have lived in France previously for several years,  but with the best intentions in the world, I will never be as fluent as I would expect my son to become....I wish I could, but I am a realist and know from having lived in France that speaking another language fluently is not easy or quick if it would ever happen at all.

[Kitty]

GD - French 'A' Level gives you a fantastic base from which to improve your French language.  The great thing about living with bilingual children is that they correct you, especially your accent.

 

[Gardian]

Surely 90% opportunity, 10% threat?  All the above says it all.

[Sprogster]

Cathy of course there are, but you are in the minority, probably because of the language barrier. I was just commenting on the members of this Forum, which over the five years I have been a member, seem to fit in the retiree and second home owner category in the main!

[ianmill]

If your son is only 3-4 years old just now you have a lot of bonding time in front of you - and when he is a teenager he'll be speaking a form of French from which you will be more or less excluded anyway.

You will still be able to provide recreational activities - that is your duty as a parent - and there is just so much on now in the way of clubs for children.

I remember too a friend in Provence setting her alarm clock for 2.30 so that she could collect her daughter from the local disco - I think it is clubbing now.

You might have to be prepared to spend more time here as Dad's Taxi compared to the UK - but you can't have your cake and eat it.

Other parents bemoan a very traditional education - which can be more regurgitation than imagination - but again you have evenings, weekends and Wednesdays to provide mental stimulation.

And you will pick up the language more easily than you might imagine.

Good luck

[Petit Romarin]

I'm not sure your child will become 'French' anyway, bearing in mind that outside of school he will be living in a 'British' environment.

I was at a party yesterday which was half French children and half British, including a number who have been in France most of their lives. The British kids stuck to one end of the pool, the French to the other, with one or two flitting in between. It was quite clear that despite a lifetime in France, most of the British kids still identify more with those of their own nationality. Interestingly, few of the British kids, despite being bilingual spoke a word of French the whole afternoon.

I'm no fan of the French education system either and we too are returning to the UK in a few weeks. I feel that France offers limited opportunities for non-French children, in fact, even for French children.

[Nomads]

Hi

I have a friend who is actually going through these problems in France right now as her French is limited.  Luckily she has other English speaking mothers around her. But helping with homework does become a real problem the older the child gets unless you can keep up with your French.

We are thinking of moving to France too and are looking at various bilingual options. Have you looked into that in the area that you want to move to?

Nomad

 

 

[Grimaud dreamer]

I do know that there are bi-lingual options but they are fee paying and may not be within our means.  I also wonder if my son would then fit into his community if he went to school away from his locality.

I am quite perturbed by the number of people who seem to feel that the French education system is not up to much.  I was always under the impression that it was superior to the system in the UK.  I wonder if those people who are not too impressed lived in particularly rural areas?  I don't want to live in such an area and the friends I have whose kids have been schooled in France appear to have had a good education.  I will have to delve a bit further.

 

[Russethouse]

There are many threads on this topic, it might pay to have a good read through them.

Another aspect to consider is whether you are hoping that your child would eventually get work in France, if so it could be difficult. Some people here have had great success, but others have found that work was difficult to come by for youngsters.

Two French families I know were still supporting their children into their late twenties, and didn't consider it unusual...

[Joanna]

My children came here aged 5, 7 & 10 and are now all at university here.  Though I don't think the French education system is perfect - what one is? - I'm basically very satisfied with it but I've pretty well given up posting my opinion on forums because I get shot down so often by those who  say with perfect authority, even though they haven't had children who've been through the whole system like mine have, that they know better than me, even when I'm quoting from experience, and the whole French system is rubbish.  Slight exaggeration but not that much!

There are rubbish schools in the UK and good ones, the same goes for here.  My youngest went to a rural college in Les Landes where the majority of pupils came from a deeply agricultural background and were whiling away their time until they could follow Dad into working in the forest or Mum into working at the old people's home.  The teachers did their best and there was a really dynamic head but it must have been near impossible to teach interesting lessons  when there was such low levels of expectation amongst the pupils.  Very few of them wanted to go onto lycee or were even bothered about passing their brevet, my daughter's friend who had an average of 15 wanted to do a BEP in looking after old people (basically the lowest level of qualification) because everyone else was, and was actually forced by the conseille de classe into going to lycee.  She's now at fac and loving it!  Not all rural schools are like that of course, but it's worth bearing in mind.

 

[ianmill]

Joanna - don't give up - it is important that all sides of an argument are aired - and interested parties can use the various posts to help in the decision-making process they have to undertake.

I have no particular interest in French education but I do have many French friends with children at various stages in the system. But for British people heading back home to ensure a better education for their children I would like to remind them that perhaps one reason for bringing the young family to France was to allow the children to grow up in a country where there is less drunkeness, drug-taking, stabbings, etc. Out of the frying pan?

[Anton Redman]

"  I won't be able to help with his homework " Why ? Most of the questions on the forum about homework over the last 5 years have been either word play where the same solutions work in English and French -  What is the word used to make a battery ready for work ? How do a group of cavaliers attack the enermy ? Charge ! or worse still maths - one included an early aide memoire for pi. Most kids who grow up with parents speaking two languages have no problems - the great fun when they share a language their parents do not speak very well.  

[Sprogster]

ianmill, on what statistical evidence do you base your assumptions that in France there is less drunkness, drug taking, stabbings etc?

My understanding is that the drug culture in France is pervasive and that the youth suicide rate in France is much higher than the UK.

It all depends on the areas of France and the Uk you are comparing, as you are not comparing like with like if you move from a city or a suburban area of the UK to a rural area of France.

[ianmill]

Of course things depend on location - town, village, country etc - but here is one statistic re alcohol and youths:

France - 2% to 3% of 16 year-olds drunk at least 10 times per year

UK - 15% to 34% of 16 year-olds drunk at least 10 times per year

Source of info available on request

I moved from Edinburgh to a town of around 50000 inhabitants. And it is such a pleasure to be in the town centre in the evenings without feeling uncomfortable.

For parents of daughters - in 2006, some 4% of births in the UK were to females aged 12-18, but the corresponding figure for France was just 1.5%

Ian

[Cerise]

Statistics are just that -statistics.  You can finddifferent figures where ever you look.

http://www.doctissimo.fr/html/sante/mag_2000/mag0929/dossier/sa_2440_jeune.htm

and a book by a reformed  alcoholic French girl of 19 about underage drinking in girls!

http://www.doctissimo.fr/html/sante/mag_2000/mag0929/dossier/sa_2440_jeune.htm

As a member of the Comission Jeunesse for our area I am fairly horrified by the drug taking/dealing locally which seems much higher than I experienced in the little Cornish community I lived in (comparing like for like).  What I do think is that incidents are much less reported here.  A young man was stabbed to death fairly randomly in Figeac not that long back and it didn't even make the national papers, or the TV news.  In UK it would have been front page of a tabloid!  This lack of reporting makes British living locally, who often don't read the local paper or watch/listen to French news anyway, very complacent.  Often parents are much more lax in the care of their children than they would be in UK, but their children are just as much at risk.  Interesting.

[ianmill]

I agree that statistics are statistics - and I'm no social scientist - but I imagine that most British people moving to France do so because they perceive the quality of life to be better. Now each person's definition of the quality of life is different, but for I also imagine that many British people see less drunkeness and boorish, loutish behaviour in France than in the UK.

If anyone wants to try, visit the A+E dept of a hospital in the UK at midnight on a Saturday, and then choose an equivalent town in France. I don't think anyone will need statistics then.

Ian

[Cendrillon]

"What I do think is that incidents are much less reported here.  A

young man was stabbed to death fairly randomly in Figeac not that long

back and it didn't even make the national papers, or the TV news.  In

UK it would have been front page of a tabloid!  This lack of reporting

makes British living locally, who often don't read the local paper or

watch/listen to French news anyway, very complacent.  Often parents are

much more lax in the care of their children than they would be in UK,

but their children are just as much at risk.  Interesting."

A valid point Cerise

[mint]

Just sent  you an email, Cendrillon.

[Russethouse]

[quote user="ianmill"]I agree that statistics are statistics - and I'm no social scientist - but I imagine that most British people moving to France do so because they perceive the quality of life to be better. Now each person's definition of the quality of life is different, but for I also imagine that many British people see less drunkenness and boorish, loutish behavior in France than in the UK.

If anyone wants to try, visit the A+E dept of a hospital in the UK at midnight on a Saturday, and then choose an equivalent town in France. I don't think anyone will need statistics then.

Ian


[/quote]

The odd thing is that given the perceived quality of life, the suicide rate is so much higher in France http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate and especially the suicide rate among young people.

[ianmill]

OK - suicide rates are higher - but why do so many British people move to France if they don't think the quality of life is better here? It has to be more than the weather, the house prices .......

Surely the most important statistic is this (although the data is 4 years old): Five hundred Britons are leaving the UK every day (Times, April 20, 2007 - data from 2005)

If the perceived quality of life is not better here, why do so many British people stay rather than return home?

OK again - what I perceive as important for a good quality of life may be different from other expats, but I am just happy, as I said, living in a country where daily life is not marred to the same extent by the antics of drunken and/or mindless youths.

In an earlier post I also mentioned stabbings - here is a passage from the Sun's website from 2 months ago:

A SHOCKING 72 people are stabbed or robbed at knifepoint EVERY day, it was

revealed today.

New figures show there were nearly 26,300 "serious" knife crimes last year.

Alarmingly, the number of offences has soared by nearly 1,500 since the year

before - a six per cent hike.

Surprisingly, the biggest increase was the 72 per cent recorded in rural Avon

and Somerset, where serious knife offences rocketed from 360 to 618.

But the figures do not include more than 250 fatal stabbings - or thousands of

more minor knife offences.

Does anyone have equivalent data for France?

This discussion has certainly moved on a good bit from the original question of parent/child bonding and education and in France - Grimaud dreamer, at the start of this section, was just worried about losing touch with his son over the years.

Ian