Cost of living - examples

[rubytuesday]

I was reading an article on the web yesterday about comparing the cost of living in UK and France, but it didn't really show any examples or prove anything,

so I was wondering if everyone gave examples of thier costs etc it would give a better picture, which would be useful for those thinking of moving.

eg

type of property/land,

number in household,

employed/retired,

taxes,

gas/water/electric,

benefits/child benefit,

shopping (price of food etc),

plus anything else you think might be helpful.

I know people can be a bit funny about saying how much they spend /earn etc but you can aprox stuff, its only a general idea.

cheers

 

[Val_2]

I'll start off then. Family of four adults (one living away all week but home w/ends and both 18 and over). No more child allowance but student payments direct instead to the student and not the parents. (Don't know anything about UK education grants at all.) Usual 3 bed(will be 4 eventually)not overly huge detatched house with approx 1000m² land with wood heating and electric central heating only used in extreme cold. Two-monthly EDF bill averages about 150€ each time, six-monthly water average about 430€,Butane gas refills are 25-30€ and last about 3months. Weekly food bill about 100 - 150€ depending on promos with meat etc and with once a month binge on detergents,pet food,cleaners for about another 50€ etc (shop at Lidl or buy the cheaper range foods in the supermarkets). Tax charges depend on turnover/profit etc due to the business and everyone is different anyway so can't help with that. Work insurance has increased by 13% over last six months and that is with ten years no claims. Vehicles (have five currently)cost more now with insurance gone up and carburants currently at their most expensive I have seen in 15 years. Social charges have gone up and the mutuelle goes up nearly every couple of months even with no claims on it. House and commune charges are together only about a quarter of what we would currently pay inthe UK so better off there. TV licence about the same I believe. No road tax here but strict on spot fines for stupid misdemeanors so you always need some savings to fall on to pay those.

We havn't visited the UK for seven years and do not eat out much due to busy lifestyle etc so we save that money.Being self employed and all that entails will never make us rich here but at least we are paying into a sufficient pension and health system for the future when many in the UK will have hardly anything. Things like the kids learning to drive costs about 6000FF and then there are passport renewals every ten years which cost more than in the UK. France in my opinion is not a cheap place to live if you are not retired and need to find employment as the wages are much lower,but for a financially covered pensioner with sufficient pension it is probably a lot cheaper although you do need to make adjustments and realise that you travel further for small items. Another thing to realise is that all the different regions of France vary in the cost of living and being in an expensive area,the costs are reflected there whereas in the wilds of the Limousin perhaps it is a lot cheaper.

[Liz]

[quote]I was reading an article on the web yesterday about comparing the cost of living in UK and France, but it didn't really show any examples or prove anything, so I was wondering if everyone gave exampl...[/quote]

I don't believe you can ever prove anything. The way people spend their money varies so widely that one family's weekly budget would keep another for a month and vice versa. If your budget is so stretched that it is important to you that living in France costs a few quid more or less than the UK then don't come. Whatever the costs now any advantage could be wiped out by a fluctuation in the exchange rate. It has happened before, and many people had to return to the UK, and it will probably happen again.

If you really want to know how much things cost come and have a good long look.

Liz (29)

[SaligoBay]

I think the answers will vary enormously from region to region.

For a 750m² plot with a 100m² house on it, we pay about 1200 euros a year taxe d'hab and foncières.

We pay much more in domestic fuel than we ever did in the UK.  Electricity isn't cheaper, firewood here is about 75 euros a cubic metre (and we've used 2 in 2 months).

Petrol is still a bit cheaper, but you'll use more if you're rural. 

If you live here on a UK salary, it'll probably seem cheap, but if you're relying solely on a French income of any sort, the relative difference between income and expenditure will be pretty much the same as it is in the UK.

As Val said, we have health mutuelles to pay here too, don't forget to add that into your calculations.  I think British people assume that the French health service is free, but it ain't!

[rubytuesday]

thanks for that val and saligobay

 

{I don't believe you can ever prove anything. The way people spend their money varies so widely that one family's weekly budget would keep another for a month and vice versa. If your budget is so stretched that it is important to you that living in France costs a few quid more or less than the UK then don't come. Whatever the costs now any advantage could be wiped out by a fluctuation in the exchange rate. It has happened before, and many people had to return to the UK, and it will probably happen again.

If you really want to know how much things cost come and have a good long look.}liz

or i could just ask on here and the info can be shared

[Russethouse]

No harm in asking, BUT as Liz has said there are just too many variables .........the size of the house, the degree of heat you find comfortable, what sort of health cover you opt for, which car you run, rural or town location, which region (and I don't just mean from the weather/heating aspect either) what you want to eat/drink, do you like going out etc, etc.......

[Iceni]

I agree with the fact that there are just too many variables. Most people live in a house - and in the winter heat that house. We have designed our property so that in the winter we will heat and live in one large living room and when and if it gets this cold again, sleep in it, only suitable for a couple of singleminded near paupers. Some eat out weekly, some once a month, some live on expensive food, some are frugal. You cannot ask the same question in reverse unless you set some parameters.

Only you know how much you need to live on, we can tell you how we live but that is relative to OUR income, area and property.

On a final note - as Val said, you need a nice big financial cushion unless you have a stonking pension - and there are less and less of those these days.

[rubytuesday]

Q{I agree with the fact that there are just too many variables. }

exactly ! thats why i'm wanting 'different ' examples.

if my life revolved around gin and fags but not toilet paper, i can take note that in one area gin might be 5 times the price but fags 5 times cheaper and ignore the price of toilet paper.

plus i find it annoying that its asumed i am pennyless, , we dont all want fitted kitchens and gardeners, i'd happily live in a caravan for the rest of my life,

[Russethouse]

>>plus i find it annoying that its assumed i am pennyless<<<

I don't think anyone assumed that but maybe you could give a ballpark figure that you think may be adequate and see if that gets the ball rolling?

As far as I know Gin and fags are virtually the same all over France

If you want to find out for your own purposes I think you will have to say a little more about how many of you there are and children's ages too (if any) and areas you may be considering because it is all relevant.

However if your question is academic only then can I refer you to the search option - advanced search works best.

[Val_2]

Having school age kids upto at least the age of 23 or a bit older is also a hefty burden to bear financially here. Both of ours will be this age or older before they even finish their education here and during that time we have to clothe,feed,finance their outings and pay for their cars and this alone mounts to a frightening total each year. My husband was only saying yesterday that he is working to support four adults with a little help here and there from myself and the kid's holiday jobs. Clothes are a bone of contention especially as they get older and want the marques which aren't cheap. There are so many variables as has been said that no one should think lightly that they will be better off,so much depends on personal tastes.

[Johndeb]

Being a sad muppet, I've keep a monthly spreadsheet of all general costs (broken down by utility) for the past 7 or so years.

As we've owned properties in France for the past 3 but have only recently moved lock stock and barrel, I decided to to a comparrison of UK v's France. 

Taking out luxuries such as holidays and Christmas expenditure and comparing the following: Electric, Gas, water, council tax, employment tax, tv licence, car running costs, health cover, weekly shopping bills, I found to my surprise that it works out for us 20% cheaper to live in France.

That said, our income is now only 20% of what we earnt in the UK, so it feels far far more expensive!!!

Hope this helps

Regards

Deb

[ruedeleglise]

I am possibly the newest subscriber to Livingfrance and this is my debut on the forum, so forgive me if I drop any bricks, don't know how to behave etc!  I have been a holiday only owner in Provence for 20 years (max 6 weeks a year) and must say I have seen the costs go up in different ways over this time. However last year we left the south, in many ways driven out by tourists their noise, regrettably drugs and petty crime which spread from the coast up to the idyllic village where we owned and also my parents before me who lived there. We bought in Picardie for 2/3 of the price we sold a 2 bed town house with no garden and no car standing, a 5 bed house in near 2 acres with a Hangar in a village where we are the only english speakers. The property price speaks for itself, different area, different price. So far after one year now going over to Picardie for about one week in six plus a 2 week and a 3 week stay, I have been quite surprised at the lower costs. Wood for heating at least a third cheaper, fresh foods from the markets all cheaper than the south, builders, plumbers decorators, odd job man (and life saver in times of crisis), all much cheaper...at least a third less than the south. And  we have found the "locals" to be so helpful and supportive. In general I feel the comparative cost of living must be cheaper. It certainly is compared with the south and compared with G.B. I take the point of earnings working in G.B and France and the higher taxation in France, but Oh WOW the quality of life in general appears to be so much better in France. Yes you are right I would love to live in France in many ways but like so many have earnings constraints till I retire and  family constraints the whole time!

[Jude]

We moved out to Normandy last September, and we find, generally speaking, that life is cheaper here, at least concerning what you spend each week in the supermarket, cost of wine (if you drink plenty like we do), fruit and veg. are a lot cheaper (generally), at first I used to keep my supermarket receipts and work out what my weekly shop would have cost me in the UK, and it always worked out at about 1/3 more expensive had I bought the same stuff in England.

Plus there is not that difficulty in trying to find £110 approx per month as in the UK, to pay expensive council tax, as here in France it is much cheaper, a once a year payment of less than a 1/4 of what we payed in the north of UK.

Like people have mentioned, we find that our most expensive item during our first winter in France has been heating costs, we have two wood burning stoves and I think these have been quite expensive to run.

Apart from that, it really depends upon your life style. If you want to have a big social whirl, entertain a lot, and eat out often then it will work out expensive, but if you are happy just to be in France, living a very nice laid back existence (after you have finished renovating your house that is) - and just eating out perhaps once or twice a month, then you can live cheaper in France that in the UK. Plus the quality of life in France is much better than in the UK anyhow and thats worth a lot!

Good luck to you anyhow, but the best way to find out is to take the plunge and come out here.

[Hegs]

Maybe it is me, I have found the rough pound-euro equivalency to be a reason for thinking things are more expensive. The pound-euro rate is close enough to 1:1 that I hear the price in Euros, the amount I think in my head is the same in pounds...

It's only when I calm down and diving by 1.45 or whatever I find the French price is actually the same or cheaper than the UK equivalent.

On the positive side this makes me more of a tight git!

[ruedeleglise]

Yes I quite agree with the comments about council tax GB vs tax fonciere and habiltation. I have never been out in France thro a long cold spell but have been for a week or 10 days only this winter.  Being like our long grey haired fellow forum chatter (sorry didn't note your name!) I am very careful to keep tabs on costs, and I must say the combination of logs and cost of electricity over the year and in the cold periods we have been there hasn't been too much of a shock. But I am comparing a fairly modern well insulated double glazed space wise compact house in France with a draughty space inefficient vertical sliding sash windowed gas centrally heated house in the UK.  I have the impression as does my wife who does 99% of the shopping that a 1/3 cheaper must be about the mark.

[Ormx]

Small example:

2 grand cremes and 2 menthe a l'eau : On Sat these 4 drinks came to 2 euros in Gers region  ("oh we didn't bother putting the menthe on the bill"), but to be fair the price of coffee varies inexplicably, so can sometimes be as much as 1.50 a cup!! Today on a day-trip to Biarritz it came to a whopping 10 euro (3 euro for coffee, 2 for menthe). Now Biarritz comes closest to prices in Dublin.

[Teamedup]

I've just got back from England and my food bills were about the same in both countries. ie we eat pretty much the same where ever we are, so that I can compare. That is taking into account the swings and roundabouts with some products. I found decent white goods cheaper in the UK and the after sales service incomparible and refunds were not a problem in the UK.

Electricity seems to be cheaper in the UK, gas about the same as here, perhaps a little cheaper.

Clothes can be far cheaper in the UK too.

A little swings and roundabouts with lots of things. Since the euro prices have gone up a lot here.

Everyone I know complains that mutualists now cost a lot more for a lot less cover. And surgeons seem to be charging more and more that is not covered by anyone other than the patient....... that is a choice, but a bummer if one has waited to see a specific and recommended surgeon for months and months, to find that they will be asking for an extra 300 odd euros which the top up will hardly make a dent in.

[Jon 1]

Teamedup

Re your reply:

"Everyone I know complains that mutualists now cost a lot more for a lot less cover. And surgeons seem to be charging more and more that is not covered by anyone other than the patient....... that is a choice, but a bummer if one has waited to see a specific and recommended surgeon for months and months, to find that they will be asking for an extra 300 odd euros which the top up will hardly make a dent in".

If costs are rising so high and not covered, would it be more cost effective not paying for a top up, and simply fork out as we go along?

 

[Miki]

Not at all, in fact i think it makes it even more important to take a mutulle (top up). One small op with a few days in hospital can set you back a nice few bob and I for one would never take a risk on the the theory of PAYG.

For our kids, we always had top ups (still do of course) and wouldn't dream of taking a chance.

In theory, with a healthy person one might go several years without any problems but one day a neccessary visit to the hospital and an extensive or even short stay with an operation etc can set you back a nice few bob, add to that continuing care and medicines and very soon, many years of paying top ups, can start to look pretty cheap !!

You pays yer money I guess.................

 

[Teamedup]

Jon, Some people do pay as you go with their top up, I wouldn't. I made my son take out a mutualist too as soon as he was independant.

As Miki says, one can soon end up with a huge bill and it is a risk I wouldn't take.

 

Also CAN'T we stop saying council taxes are cheaper here. They may be in some Nulparthameau-en-Campagneperdue, but for the rest of us they are expensive and can be very very expensive. So for those of you who pay little, well, that is there, and certainly not in the other France where I live. Anyone who 'assumes' that they will be paying next to nothing, well, don't, you could end up with a surprise of the bad sort.

[ruedeleglise]

This is all most confusing. We seem to be contradicting each other a lot of the time!

In GB for a 4 bed house band E, semi rural we pay 2.400 Euro a year in rates/council tax

In Picardie  5 bed rural we pay 499 fonciere + 300 Hab + 124 waste = 923 Euro a year

In GB we pay class 4 nic + stamp and WPA private health insurance 6000 Euro a year !!!!

In France I don't know as I don't live there.

House insurance GB 800 Euro.   France 450 Euro (correcting for lesser contents in France)