Serve him right

[Val_2]

I've got a space saver tyre in my 21 year old VW Scirocco as the normal wheels are too wide to fit anywhere snug and the manufacturers have the 50mph limit stamped all over it and the boot area. I only had to use it once when I got a flat and believe you me, you do get some really funny looks from folks who can see all your car's inside parts round the wheel area that are usually hidden by a fatter tyre,its embarressing too at travelling at that speed in a sports coupé.

[Pads]

cassis do you think he may of slipped in under a nother guise?[;-)]

[Pangur]

[quote user="Quillan"]

I also agree with the statement that driving to slow causes accidents because it entices people to take risks in overtaking that they would not normally take. [/quote]

Another problem with speeders is that (around here anyway) they will tailgate someone going too slow for them (i.e. at the speedlimit) and then overtake on a blind bend. They may think they are totally in control of their car and speed, but it can be frightening, and potentially dangerous, for the rest of us to see a car coming the other direction before petrolhead has finished his or her manoevre. 

Of course I have sped (?) speeded (??) in the past, but it doesn't stop from me from acknowledging; that it is wrong; that the chances are that someone who knows a lot more about locales and road safety than I has determined the speed limit; and that if I get caught and fined, it is my own fault and I should just shut up and pay my stupidity tax.[;-)]

 

 

[Tony F Dordogne]

You seem to have got it in one Cassis - come on ALF, own up, who are you really?

[Cassis]

Er, any guesses, anyone?  Not in public, obviously!

[Bobc]

Apart from all the pointless rubbish on this thread, take some time to

think about the two French sisters, one expecting a child, who were

killed by the the English van driver high on alcohol and drugs in 24.

He has already received a pathetic 4 year jail term which his lawyer arugued was too severe?

As with the earlier tragic incident in the Dordorgne, which we are not

able to discuss, take some time to to think about the Pompiers who have

to attend these avoidable incidents.

Bob Clarke

[ali-cat]

I think it's really sad that there are some people that just appear in a thread, with stupid, pointless comments, when it is pretty obvious they are only joining in (or worse still - re-registering with the forum!!) to abuse & insult the other posters. 

It's all a great joke to some - but not to others.  Especially not to those who have lost family or friends in accidents.  Try to have at least some consideration before sitting down to write your meaninless comments, again.   What a sad life, you must live.

[mark24]

Sadly in life we have all lost many friends and family  .Most of mine have been lost to car /van drivers  who have had impeccable driving records (Well that’s what there legal advisers have told the courts and that they have perfect vision ).

Even though they were all bar one travailing at or under the legal limit .The drivers that hit them did not see them .

As for re-registering with the forum that’s not me as much as you all think that the world is full of, all so perfect law abiding people, ITS NOT other people have different opinions they just don’t post .And when they see how you all act its no wonder they don’t post   

 

This is an open forum if you post you should not expect every one to feel and act as you do .

 

Sorry we are all individuals and all so different ,some of us just don’t like to admit it, do you and some of us dont give a dam

And if your all so worried about all the death and destruction on the roads then stay of them you may save a motorcyclists life Or your own

[timc17]

Fact - Speed kills and wrecks lives.

The driver should be jailed , the car confiscated , sold and the proceeds used for road safety measures.

I've just spent a week in Germany where there are pretty much no speeds limts on the motorways - i did not feel safe and couldn't wait to back on french roads.

Driving at 220 kmh should be confined to race circuits.

 

[Chief]

Fact...(police accident records/Home Office Records).... 93% of accidents occur at speeds below the posted speed limit.......and involve your good old law-abiding, "sorry mate i didn't see you, those bloody motorcyclists are all trouble with their greasy hair", citizen!!

I know which cars i am worried about.

[Chief]

 A couple or so crashes, some my fault as a younger man, some not.

Experiecned drivers, who think they are good drivers, can get away with breaking the law & speeding, are only deluding themselves.  Unfortunately it's the other road users, misfortunate enough to meet them, who have to pay the price. 

 

I speed all the time and no one has met me yet.  I am not the worlds best driver, but have advanced training, sound judgement about where i speed (unsound judgement is something alcazar aludes to up above), and a healthy respect for the people who also use the roads but who may desire not to speed (hence the judgement about where i speed). Most near misses i see on the roads (i do about 800 miles a week and see quite a lot) are caused by people doing say 50mph on a motorway full of traffic travelling at 70mph, people who manouvere without signalling, late signalling, cars towing caravans without mirror extensions so they can see oncoming/approaching traffic, the list is endless.  As i have said elsewhere, 93% of accidents are caused by drivers within the posted speed limits (ie: nothing to do with speeding, and everything to do with an abundance of other bad driving habits).  The government has sold you this speed kills catchphrase because it makes money.  Look at the stats, a worst only 7% of deaths and serious accidents are caused by speeders, that means that the remainder are caused by you so called goody goody drivers. And you lot are knocking speeders....weird.  I would rather a car passed my son at 100mph than hit him at 25mph!!!

chief

[andyh4]

[quote user="timc17"]

.

I've just spent a week in Germany where there are pretty much no speeds limts on the motorways - i did not feel safe and couldn't wait to back on french roads.

[/quote]

 

Not so - 70% of the motorway network has a speed limit of 130km/hr or less.  These are regularly enforced.  Indeed so regularly that the local radios give out half hourly messages about where the cameras are situated.

Driving in Germany does demand new disciplines - especially for Brits I have to say, sadly.

Use your mirrors a lot more than you are used to: and a quick glance is not enough.

Lane discipline - once you have finished overtaking pull back in to the innermost free lane.

Those two headighlt in the distance in your mirror - may well be a Porsche/Merc or Beemer doing twice your speed, so if you are going to change lanes indicate well in advance (2 blinks started after you have begun to change lanes is NOT adequate warning), and keep referring to your mirror before you manoeuvre.

 

Be polite courteous and helpful to other drivers.  Where you can let another driver out without disrupting the traffic flow (either by slowing down or changing lanes), do so.

 

And above all - anticipate what the other driver is likely to do.

 

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="chief"]

Fact...(police accident records/Home Office

Records).... 93% of accidents occur at speeds below the posted

speed limit.......and involve your good old law-abiding, "sorry mate i

didn't see you, those bloody motorcyclists are all trouble with their

greasy hair", citizen!!

I know which cars i am worried about.

[/quote]

Go on - I am intrigued. Not that I doubt your word, but how about

posting a link to this "fact?" I don't mind being proved wrong, but I'd

like to have a look at the evidence myself. Maybe it's only 7% because

people hit the brakes just before impact...

[Chief]

Ali....quoteed as replying that  I.A.M . stands for??  Possibly, I'm A Moron.

Well Ali...You are debasing your arguements by resorting to futile childish insults.  It is not clever and demeans you as an individual. I guess you have had someone injured in a road accident, which obviously entitles you the the moral high ground, with substantiating any of your points with empirically based evidence, unless of course insults are evidence now...not sure....

Just watching

[Chief]

Hi JonD

You wrote  'Go on - I am intrigued. Not that I doubt your word, but how about posting a link to this "fact?" I don't mind being proved wrong, but I'd like to have a look at the evidence myself. Maybe it's only 7% because people hit the brakes just before impact...'

I will try and dig the link out mate.  Saw it sometime ago on home office website while researching an article i had read on road safety, when i find it i will post it.  Whetehr people hit the brakes or not to avoid an accident is irrelevent really. If we start going down the might have been if this and might have been if that road, the combinations are endless, and equally bountifyul for both sides of the argument. Reality is we measure what happens and not what might happen if...

cheers mate

chief

[Chief]

Hi JonD.

Best i can do for regards the link is www.homeoffice.gov/police.  I have searched using 'speeding offence,' 'speed related accidents', 'speed related accidents', death inmjvolving speeding' etc but keep returning short single sheet articles with no forwarding links.  Spoke to a policemen friend on phone as well.  He says, and i quote word for word, "even we cannot find it, they (Government) are embarrassed by it because it reflects what we have recorded, and not what they want you to believe".  He also advised to email Top Gear (BBC) as he said they had Steven Ladyman (Transport Minister) on recently, who admitted as much, and also refused to point out where the stats where on the site when pressed by Clarkson.  Hope this helps mate

chief

[Chief]

stick     .uk aftyer the .gov

[Sunday Driver]

Try this:

[url=http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/downloadable/dft_rdsafety_611108.pdf#search='Review%20of%20the%20%27Looked%20but%20Failed%20To%20See%20Accident%27%20Causation%20Factor']Road Safety Research Report No 60: Review of the 'Looked but Failed to See' Accident Causation Factor (Dft November 2005) [/url]

The incidence of recording LBFTS as a ‘Definite’ contributory factor in multivehicle,fatal or serious accidents on built-up roads was greater than that of all other contributory factors (15%), closely followed by ‘Failure to judge other person’s path or speed (13%) and ‘Failed to look’ (13%).

A bit less than 93%....

[Chief]

LBFTS is one aspect of the 93% i would guess.  My point earlier was that the police and now the home office after a review of the available data, had concluded that 7% of accidents were caused by inappropriate speed (not necessarily speeding) and thus 93% was directly attributable to other factors (such as LBFTS).

[Salty Sam]

[quote user="chief"]

 A couple or so crashes, some my fault as a younger man, some not.

Experiecned drivers, who think they are good drivers, can get away with breaking the law & speeding, are only deluding themselves.  Unfortunately it's the other road users, misfortunate enough to meet them, who have to pay the price. 

I speed all the time and no one has met me yet.  I am not the worlds best driver, but have advanced training, sound judgement about where i speed, and a healthy respect for the people who also use the road

chief

[/quote]

It appears you are somewhat deluded!

If ever there was a conflict of statements! You say you have advanced training, I take this to mean you have Police Level One training including Pursuit & T - Pack? Or are you yet another one who has attended a IAM course and mistakingly thought that by attending, you were given some exemption from the Road Traffic Act? You probably think the legislation appertaining to the use of mobile phones while driving also doesn't apply to you!

You admit to not being the world's best driver, you speed all the time and yet you appear to think you have sound judgement and healthy respect for other road users. By the time you get round to meeting someone, it is highly unlikely you will know much about the event!

What is this moronic culture that thinks they are expert drivers and have the skills to react at speed. From the boy-racer in his Saxo with go faster furry dice, through to the £60,000 4 x 4 arrogant "Get out of my way the road is mine" attitude.

Are we now seeing a new generation of ex-pats who when asked why they are moving to France, their answer is "Because I can break the French road traffic laws with little chance of getting caught - although I might die or kill someone in the process, what will be will be".

Morons[:@][:@][:@]

 

[Pads]

salty sam that was one of the best reply i have read on this subject  WELL DONE[;-)]

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="chief"]LBFTS is one aspect of the 93% i would guess.  My point earlier was that the police and now the home office after a review of the available data, had concluded that 7% of accidents were caused by inappropriate speed (not necessarily speeding) and thus 93% was directly attributable to other factors (such as LBFTS).[/quote]

Not sure about your figures or your assumptions.......

The LBFTS report concludes that:

"The main contributory factor subsidiary to LBFTS which was of a behavioural nature was ‘excess speed’". The conclusion goes on to say "Clearly, fast driving will limit the time available for drivers to scan the road and traffic scene effectively".

The DfT Road Safety Research paper on [url=http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/page/dft_rdsafety_031459.pdf]Excessive Speed as a Contributory Factor to Personal Injury Road Accidents[/url] contains the following conclusions:

The analyses presented in this study focus on comparing how the percentage of all accidents where excessive speed was recorded as one of four possible contributory factors varies between different types of accidents.

• Excessive speed was cited as a contributory factor to 12 per cent of all accidents between 1999 and 2002, ranking as the 7th most often cited of 54 contributory factors.

• Excessive speed was the most often recorded contributory factor for fatal accidents, being cited in 28 per cent of fatal accidents between 1999 and 2002.

Among the most striking findings is the way excessive speed contributes to a much higher proportion of severe and fatal accidents. This close relationship with accident severity is not observed for any other major contributory factor except alcohol impairment. This would confirm previous research indicating that as well as actually contributing to the occurrence of an accident, excessive speed may be a major factor determining the severity of injuries and likelihood of death.

[Chief]

Hi Salty Sam

If you can manage a reply without the insults and sterotypes, i will happily explain my level of training, the stupid accidents (2) i had that were definately my fault (No other car or pedestrian involved and both within the speed limit).  You finish off with the statement 'Morons' and yet your very mentality in the response you have made is not only adolescent, moronic as well.  IAM course takers, 4X4 Drivers, Saxo Boy Racers, god mate, if your intelligent theres no hope for England or France.  Why not chuck in a few stereotypes about women and blacks, may as well go for the full house.

Dave

[Chief]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

[quote user="chief"]LBFTS is one aspect of the 93% i would guess.  My point earlier was that the police and now the home office after a review of the available data, had concluded that 7% of accidents were caused by inappropriate speed (not necessarily speeding) and thus 93% was directly attributable to other factors (such as LBFTS).[/quote]

Not sure about your figures or your assumptions.......

The LBFTS report concludes that:

"The main contributory factor subsidiary to LBFTS which was of a behavioural nature was ‘excess speed’". The conclusion goes on to say "Clearly, fast driving will limit the time available for drivers to scan the road and traffic scene effectively".

The DfT Road Safety Research paper on [url=http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/page/dft_rdsafety_031459.pdf]Excessive Speed as a Contributory Factor to Personal Injury Road Accidents[/url] contains the following conclusions:

The analyses presented in this study focus on comparing how the percentage of all accidents where excessive speed was recorded as one of four possible contributory factors varies between different types of accidents.

• Excessive speed was cited as a contributory factor to 12 per cent of all accidents between 1999 and 2002, ranking as the 7th most often cited of 54 contributory factors.

• Excessive speed was the most often recorded contributory factor for fatal accidents, being cited in 28 per cent of fatal accidents between 1999 and 2002.

Among the most striking findings is the way excessive speed contributes to a much higher proportion of severe and fatal accidents. This close relationship with accident severity is not observed for any other major contributory factor except alcohol impairment. This would confirm previous research indicating that as well as actually contributing to the occurrence of an accident, excessive speed may be a major factor determining the severity of injuries and likelihood of death.

[/quote]

I have no problem with your findings mate.  Often the variance is reflective of the manner in which the data is collected, how variables are measured, and also the time spans covered by the rersearch.  As some of your data shows, the reports were covering a period between 1999 and 2002, perhaps if the years of 2003-2004 were added for instance, the figures would reflect something different (Up or Down).  I think whichever way up you look at it though, speeding is NOT the major cause of death and injury even according to your data.

Good luck out there, and Bon Chance

Chief

[ali-cat]

[quote user="chief"]

Ali....quoteed as replying that  I.A.M . stands for??  Possibly, I'm A Moron.

Well Ali...You are debasing your arguements by resorting to futile childish insults.  It is not clever and demeans you as an individual. I guess you have had someone injured in a road accident, which obviously entitles you the the moral high ground, with substantiating any of your points with empirically based evidence, unless of course insults are evidence now...not sure....

Just watching

[/quote]

Actually - I wrote that because it was a perfect use of the letters IAM, to describe the comments being made, by the poster.  I could have probably used a different phrase - but the forum software would have removed it!!  [:)]

I think the only childish comments being made, are by those who are saying "I've got a fast car/bike & I'll do what ever I want!!"..... At which stage they will more than likely lie down on the ground & start kicking their feet, until they get their own way. 

Nobody has said that speeding is the largest killer on the roads - accidents happen, we all know that - but why take the risk of either being killer yourself - or worse, killing an innocent person, because you thought you could handle a car at high speed.

Oh!! & please feel free to continue watching.  Watching what, I have no idea - but if it keeps you off the roads - everyone else will feel a lot happier.  [:D]