Important

[Dog]

If you have not already received this it may be worth signing up too....

READ THIS...it takes less than 2 minutes to read and sign. ITS IMPORTANT IT WILL AFFECT YOU IF YOU ARE A DRIVER

Sign and send on to all of your mates, my friends, because before you know it the nice gentlemen will be taxing us for breathing and that's no longer the joke it used to be!

It was stated on the news this morning (27th November 2006) one of the reasons this proposal has been suggested was to raise money for possible road building and improvements to existing roads. It should be noted: all the money currently collected by the DVLA for road fund licenses, only 23% - 24% is actually spent on road building and improvements!

The government's proposal to introduce road pricing will mean you having to purchase a tracking device for your car and paying a monthly bill to use it.

The tracking device will cost about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC, the lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist and £194 for a delivery driver.

A non working Mum who used the car to take the kids to school paid £86 in one month.

On top of this massive increase in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know where you are at all times. They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit you can expect an NIP with your monthly bill.

If you care about our freedoms and stopping the constant bashing of the car driver, please sign the petition on No 10's new website

Sign up here http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/

[Sunday Driver]

Will it affect me as a foreign motorist?  If not, then of what interest is it to me?

Will it result in the downtrodden and overtaxed British driving public staying off the M20/M25/M40/M42/M6toll so that when I go back occasionally to visit the Midlands, I will arrive less stressed with the dreadful traffic congestion and get there in a shorter time? 

If so, I'm all for keeping British people off the roads - I remember the petrol tanker drivers strike a few years back and whilst it was it force, motorway driving was a sedate and pleasurable experience (just like it is in France) - and my fuel bills were smaller.

The petition originator describes the tracking of vehicles at all times as sinister and wrong, and you predict that anyone creeping over the speed limit can expect a NIP with your monthly bill.  In the event of the proposed road pricing system being clever enough to monitor your driving speed at any given moment in time, then I expect that everyone will have bring their attention levels up to the point where they can maintain progress at or below the posted speed limit.

Freedoms?  Where did you get that from......?  [8-)]

 

 

[yorky]

A much easier method would be to introduce EU legislation to ban all cars with a engine capacity of less than 4.4lts or less than 8 cylinders.

Yorky

[Dog]

I didn't write the piece but it does mention that the pricing will be done by GPS technology and therefore would be easy to monitor speed. The UK government has already got the insurance industry involved in the scam.

No mention has been made of how foreign registered vehicles will be made to pay but I am sure a way will be found.

Surveillance creep is everywhere and erroding freedom in leaps and bounds.

You may not think you are a wrongdoer but when the powers that be have all the information you may well become the target.

[yorky]

That's one of the reasons I ran away from the UK.

Yorky

[Bugsy]

It's of no interest to me either.

It's also fairly well known that devices are already being developed to jam the signals on those trackers.

Now if I could find one that I could fit on my bike that would jam the morons phone that's being used in the car in front of me, that I would definately buy.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Gary aka Bugbear"]

It's also fairly well known that devices are already being developed to jam the signals on those trackers.

[/quote]

Unhappily for the users, these devices would also emit radiation that

would be easily detecteable by the forces of law & order - I would

imagine that the penalties would be stiff (death by one thousand cuts,

etc).

It must be decidedly irksome for the "if you have nothing to hide, you

have nothing to fear" brigade to discover that, in fact, they do.

As for us happy foreigners...if it were me I'd hand over a transmitter

to arriving vehicles against the threat of vehicle confiscation upon

departure of non payment or failure to use or loss and accept credit

cards at Dover. Easy.

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Jon"]
As for us happy foreigners...if it were me I'd hand over a transmitter to arriving vehicles against the threat of vehicle confiscation upon departure of non payment or failure to use or loss and accept credit cards at Dover. Easy.


[/quote]

That's you off my Christmas card list then.................................[:)][:)]

[Gluestick]

Hmmm I well remember the petition I and zillions of others signed in 1966, including Graham Hill, Sterling Moss and John Gott, who was the Chief Constable in Northamptonshire (I think?[8-)]) as well as loads of other notables. The petition to the then PM was to not bring in a blanket speed limit....................... it made certain other intelligent suggestions. Well intelligent suggestions, ah, that was that out of the question with politicans then!

I came to the conclusion that as these petitions were delivered to number 10 - in this case by Moss and Hill etc - and ceremoniously accepted,  once the famous front door closed they were taken straight into the garden and into an incinerator. Today, I suppose it would be a big shredder! Gotta be green now, you know, before you jump into your big Jag! [:P]

One technical point. The absolute accuracy of GP systems, depends on whether you use two or three source fix. Three is much more expensive. Even with three, the accuracy is not pinpoint, thus any speeding offence could be easily challenged. After all speedometers only have to be accurate to -10 + 10%.

Methinks the net result of all this desperate fiscal kneejerk stuff will simply be a huge incease in geezers with false ID and no insurance. Off to the car auction with a bundle of readies, give a false name and address and you are in business.

And that's one of the core present problems in the UK: all these clever ideas attack only a small group of middle Englanders who are basically honest - and can afford to pay the fines.

 

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Gary aka Bugbear"]

[quote user="Jon"]

As for us happy

foreigners...if it were me I'd hand over a transmitter to arriving

vehicles against the threat of vehicle confiscation upon departure of

non payment or failure to use or loss and accept credit cards at Dover.

Easy.

[/quote]

That's you off my Christmas card list then.................................[:)][:)]

[/quote]

Awww....Seriously GABB, I am very happy to live in a country that:

A) Has privicy laws;

2) Where the populace will descend to the streets and hurl bricks at the constabulary to defend the same.

Sitting in a café this very morning reading Ouest France I discovered

that a poll taken on Sunday suggested that 94% of 18-25 year olds would

vote in the upcoming presidential. Now, much as I dislike Franco-UK

comparisons, in this case I think it is valuable to consider what

proportion of the British youth vote would even care that there was an

election, much less would be prepared to haul their carcess out from in

front of East Enders to go and cast a ballot paper into the urns.

I am of the opinion that the British political caste have done an

extrordinary job in making voting so deeply uncool that most people

simply don't bother - hence they can get through any outragous law that

they wish happy in the knowledge that no "third force" will ever

engender sufficient support to stop them.

Oh well, I don't live there any more, so it's someone else's problem. Sorry.

Don't forget - tapez deux pour Marina and stop that other surly bint from getting into the final

[Quillan]

[quote user="Gary aka Bugbear"]

Now if I could find one that I could fit on my bike that would jam the morons phone that's being used in the car in front of me, that I would definately buy.

[/quote]

They have been around for years. I bought one in Japan about 8 years ago and it still works very well. I used mine on the train or in restaurants because I got fed up with having my private space invaded by people shouting (increases the ange does shouting) down their mobile phones. They also used to jam Walkman's as well. Nothing worse than being on the London Underground next to somebody emitting music that sounded as if it was being played in a tin can. If you want one you can look here http://www.globalgadgetuk.com/Personal.htm as they are now available in the UK. Mine has a range of around 5M but do be aware they are totally illegal in the UK under sections 1 and 13 of the 1949 Telegraphy act. Having said that it is said that one or two top restro's in London have static versions fitted but I have no idea if it is true.

As for stopping the trackers well they are always on and the ones I saw years back in Japan (they have been using them there for years for congestion charging) they were checked once a year during the 'MOT' test which is when they were down loaded and your bill sent out. If there was a gap in their record questions were asked.

UPDATE - GPS jammer http://www.globalgadgetuk.com/yo50G.htm

ADDED - Just to say I have no connection with this company in anyway, it was the first of many that came up when you search google for these devices. The company I have mentioned will not sell these devices to individuals and/or companies in the UK or EU (unless you are a government establishment). It clearly states this on their website and I assume the other websites have the same statement although I am not going to spend the rest of the day checking this out.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

One technical point. The absolute accuracy of GP systems, depends on whether you use two or three source fix. Three is much more expensive. Even with three, the accuracy is not pinpoint, thus any speeding offence could be easily challenged. After all speedometers only have to be accurate to -10 + 10%.

[/quote]

Sorry but you are wrong (in the nicest possible way). Although not officially on line (because they switch it off for adjustents from time to time) EGNOS is now available in Europe. This system gives accuracy to within 1M and many existing systems such as Garmin etc can already recieve it (its the EU version of WAAS). I have a GlobalSat BT-338 reciever that works with it and the accuracy of my car navigation system has improved beyond belief, like when it says turn right now you are there. This system is so accurate that it will be used for 'safety of life' applications and also for the next generation of blind landing units for aircraft. There is loads of stuff on the net about it just type in EGNOS.

A list of existing receivers that are available over the counter and work with EGNOS can be found here

http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/egnos/estb/SBAS_receivers.pdf

As to only 2 sats being picked up well my BT-338 can deal with 20 and I get around 7 to 8 inside my house. Thats why SiRFstarIII chip set GPS units are so good.

[Deimos]

I saw the thing on UK TV (BBC) that started this thing. It was not a report and was not related to government proposals. They(BBC) took a few people and installed logging devices for a period. They they got a transport "expert" to work out what they might pay were the gov to start to charge for roads by use. It was limited in that as the gov. were not proposing charging this "expert" had to make up pricing. Similarly, the tracking system used was to enable the "expert" to both tell how far they had travelled and to guess at the use (e.g. school run, etc.). The devices used were not as proposed by UK gov as UK gov were not proposing anything. There was nothing to do with speeding (as GPS will not be accurate enough to detect short distance speeding (with direction changes).

Basically it was a "time filler" for the news - and is amazing how this can then start a petition !!

Ian

[Chief]

[quote user="Gary aka Bugbear"]

It's of no interest to me either.

It's also fairly well known that devices are already being developed to jam the signals on those trackers.

Now if I could find one that I could fit on my bike that would jam the morons phone that's being used in the car in front of me, that I would definately buy.

[/quote]

And so mad anti-biker might jam yours while your stood by the roadside trying to call an ambulance for your injured spouse or friend.....but using it would be wrong then i guess..........

[Chief]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

One technical point. The absolute accuracy of GP systems, depends on whether you use two or three source fix. Three is much more expensive. Even with three, the accuracy is not pinpoint, thus any speeding offence could be easily challenged. After all speedometers only have to be accurate to -10 + 10%.

[/quote]

You may find this statement inaccurate.  polioceman friend tells me that the speedo can be upto 10% out, only if they are showing you travelling faster than you actually are.  They are not permitted to show a speedo reading that is less than the actual speed being travelled.

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Chief"]

And so mad anti-biker might jam yours while your stood by the roadside trying to call an ambulance for your injured spouse or friend.....but using it would be wrong then i guess..........

[/quote]

At least I would be using mine legally, as in NOT when driving........................[:@]

[Chief]

[quote user="Quillan"][quote user="Gary aka Bugbear"]

Now if I could find one that I could fit on my bike that would jam the morons phone that's being used in the car in front of me, that I would definately buy.

[/quote]

They have been around for years. I bought one in Japan about 8 years ago and it still works very well. I used mine on the train or in restaurants because I got fed up with having my private space invaded by people shouting (increases the ange does shouting) down their mobile phones. They also used to jam Walkman's as well. Nothing worse than being on the London Underground next to somebody emitting music that sounded as if it was being played in a tin can. If you want one you can look here http://www.globalgadgetuk.com/Personal.htm as they are now available in the UK. Mine has a range of around 5M but do be aware they are totally illegal in the UK under sections 1 and 13 of the 1949 Telegraphy act. Having said that it is said that one or two top restro's in London have static versions fitted but I have no idea if it is true.

As for stopping the trackers well they are always on and the ones I saw years back in Japan (they have been using them there for years for congestion charging) they were checked once a year during the 'MOT' test which is when they were down loaded and your bill sent out. If there was a gap in their record questions were asked.

UPDATE - GPS jammer http://www.globalgadgetuk.com/yo50G.htm

 

[/quote]

So, the site won't allow you to name and shame scam artist tenants in the gite owners forum, but will allow you to advertise illegal goods to members on the site........so much for looking after each other. I just hope that anyone using one of these jammers, might consider the poor soul nearby trying to call an ambulance or the fire service, the guy around the corner trying to contact his missing child, etc etc...but hey, what should be allowed to interrupt your private space. Not wanting to flame you, but i am reading into this that you are one of the types who expects the rest of us to listen to your banal conversations though, as no doubt in your mind, its the most interesting thing anyone could listen to.......it strikes me as amazing how so many of the live and let live, so called free thinkers, etc etc fail to do just that.....

[Chief]

[quote user="Gary aka Bugbear"][quote user="Chief"]

And so mad anti-biker might jam yours while your stood by the roadside trying to call an ambulance for your injured spouse or friend.....but using it would be wrong then i guess..........

[/quote]

At least I would be using mine legally, as in NOT when driving........................[:@]

[/quote]

Well that will be comforting as you listen to the last rites.....not...

[Chief]

[quote user="Gary aka Bugbear"][quote user="Chief"]

And so mad anti-biker might jam yours while your stood by the roadside trying to call an ambulance for your injured spouse or friend.....but using it would be wrong then i guess..........

[/quote]

At least I would be using mine legally, as in NOT when driving........................[:@]

[/quote]

Imagine the scene

 

1. Plonker drives down the street, decides he/she has call to make and reaches for mobile phone.
2. Whilst driving (perhaps now erratically) he/she attempts to dial number.
3. Driver gets connected and proceeds down road oblivious to others while he/she chats merrily away.
4. Driver proceeds down road, raising the danger to themselves and others.
5. Technically astute and law-abiding motorcycle rider spots said driver and blocks signal.
6. Drivers call is terminated (but not his/her intent to finish the chat)
7. Driver moves out of the jammers frequency range, and
8. Driver revisits all the previous dangers, only this time has to explain to recipient of call, that “sorry about that, I got cut off.  Probably one of those plonkers with a jammer somewhere, anyway where was I, ahh yes……” etc etc
9. GOTO 1 above

 

So Bugbear….are you helping the situation.  Why not take down the licence number of the driver instead, report it to the police, and be prepared to stand up in a court of law and testify…..or do you not want to get involved J

 

PS:  Not a flame, just don’t see that you can use someone else’s lawbreaking as a justification for breaking the law yourself.

 

[Bugsy]

I'm not really sure what you mean ' Chief', and where you are going with this. Quillan didn't advertise anything, he merely posted a website as indeed I'm sure you have in the past.

If you take the trouble to look at that site you will see that those items are not available in Europe as they are not legal.

My comment about having one on my bike were said very much 'tongue in cheek' and was meant to be humorous.

That said, you should perhaps try riding a bike because you would very quickly realise the added danger bikers have to face,caused by thoughtless moronic individuals chatting away on their mobiles whilst driving.

That's all I was trying to say.

[cooperlola]

Gary, don't you think the French are relatively good to bikers?  And bikers are very polite in return. As a  motorist, this has certainly struck me here.

[Bugsy]

[quote user="cooperlola"]Gary, don't you think the French are relatively good to bikers?  And bikers are very polite in return. As a  motorist, this has certainly struck me here.[/quote]

They certainly are, it's a different world here compared to the UK.

 

[Quillan]

I am not particularily proud of the fact but I got done 29 Euros last year for using my mobile phone to tell somebody I would be late collecting them from Carcassonne airport whilst I was stationary, with my engine turned off, stuck in a traffic jam because there was a serious accident half a click up the road. It would appear you must not only be stationary but actually off the road (in a layby or carpark) if you want to use a mobile phone here in France. Alternativly perhaps I should have got out of the car, I do both now just to be sure.

[Bugsy]

That's a bit of bad luck to be 'done' in those circumstances.  Yes, off the road and parked safely. I just turn my mobile off when driving and that solves the problem.

Sat Nav is going to be next, I would imagine, yet something else to distract the few who insist on fiddling with them whilst driving.

Quenton Wilson said in a TV program recently that cars were being made too safe (for the occupants), and that road safety could be improved by making them more dangerous. Strange logic but I can see his point.

French law also states that if you are in a car with the engine running you must have a seatbelt on. Before I knew that I couldn't work out why the french driver in front of me at the filling station nearly always put their belt on before starting the engine.

[Quillan]

Trouble is they don't give you any slack if you are not French. If he just told me I would never do it again but then he said he has told people in the past and they take no notice so I suspect he has a point. I don't know about them banning GPS in France,. I say this because the Gendarm's round here have TomToms fitted to their cars and vans.