Horse Trailer

[cooperlola]

I have a horse trailer, currently lurking in a long-suffering friend's garden in the UK.  I understand that to import it here I need a European Certificate of Conformity.  However, the manufacturer has gone out of business (Sinclair).  It has a German Alco aluminium chassis.  Does anybody know how I can get the correct papers to get it over here and out of my friend's way?

[Sunday Driver]

If the trailer has a PTAC less than 500kg then it does not need to be registered in its own right.

If the PTAC is over 500kgs, then it will need to have its own registration.  For that, you will need to provide evidence of type approval for France.  If you cannot obtain a certificate of conformity from the manufacturer (gone out of business) then you'll need to submit the trailer for a single vehicle approval inspection (reception de titre isole).

RTIs are carried out by the DRIRE.  Look on their [url=http://www.drire.gouv.fr] national website [/url] then select your regional office. Call them for advice on how you should proceed.

[keith.P]

Hi S.D

You seem to very knowledgeable of the French traffic and licencing laws, can you tell me if my class 1 ( hgv Artic ) licence allows me to drive for a french company now, it used to be that a foreigner with a class one could only drive class 2 trucks i:e rigid 6/8 wheelers ( large tippers etc ) and that you had to take a French test to update the english licence, but that may of changed now.I can drive for an english company or drive my own but it is not clear regarding the French company and my French isn`t good enough to take a HGV test

Regards

Keith . p

[Sunday Driver]

Keith

Your UK "Class 1" is a category C+E licence which is the same as category E(C) in France, ie. vehicle with a PTAC >3.5 tonnes and trailer > 750kg.

All licences issued by an EU state are valid in all other EU states. You may exchange your UK licence for a French one if you wish and you will receive the same entitlements as on your existing licence.

If you are a UK based driver, you are regarded as a foreign driver and you may drive in France on your UK licence and you remain subject to normal UK LGV training/qualification requirements.  If you are resident in France, however, then you are regarded as a "french" driver and as such, there are additional training/qualification requirements, not all of which may apply to you.

FIMO: Formation Initial Minimum Obligatoire (obligatory minimum initial training) - 4 week initial commercial driver training course, obligatory for all new  LGV licence holders.

CFP:  Certificat de Formation Professionel (Professional Driver Diploma) - 350 hours training with choice of diploma in delivery driving/long distance(artics)/dangerous materials. Diploma recognised as a key qualification by French transport companies. Given that these days, you can take your Class 1/E(C) test using a 10 tonne rigid with a 1 tonne drawbar trailer, I would think the the CFP artic qualification would be a routine requirement for finding employment driving artics, although your UK experience may cover this.

FCOS: Formation Continue Obligatoire de Securite (obligatory continuous safety training ) - 3 day course every five years covering general road safety, current regulations, etc.  Attestation issued on successful completion.

Note: A minimim requirement for the above is the ability to read and write in French and perform simple mathematic calculations (addition, subtraction, multiplication,division).

Hope this helps.  PM me if you need any more information.

[cooperlola]

Thanks for that, Sunday driver. Yeah, it's over 500kg so I realise it needs approval.  However, if I tow it here in the first place, obviously it won't have the approval at that stage.  Any thoughts?

[derf]

You could argue that you have just purchased it, or imported it and intend to go through the registration process ASAP

[Sunday Driver]

Interesting scenario, Cooperlola.

The trailer never needed a separate registration in the UK, so it doesn't have it's own plates. In France, trailers of that size must be registered in their own right and unlike the UK, they can't be towed on the towing vehicle's number.

Rather than speculate or get involved in risky arguments about having just purchased it, when it might be actually illegal on the road, I've sent an e-mail to my local DRIRE asking them for clarification - I'll post back once I get their response.

[Sunday Driver]

Just received an e-mail acknowledgement back from my local DRIRE.  I expect they'll provide some sort of answer shortly.

Watch this space........[:D]

[Brilec]

As long as you tow it behind a suitable UK registered vehicle, with the correct number on the back, all should be OK to bring it to France, and tow it around like that for a reasonable time. Enough to get it registerd at least.

[ntc]

Hi

 

I intended to take a home made trailer to France in June it is 10ft x 6ft and  is fitted with brakes, can you tell me if this will be legal in France also do I need separate insurance for the trailer if so where do I get the insurance I would like to leave it in France until our house is completed

 

NTC

[Dave&Olive]

hi

    ok  ....... I have just got my indispention trailor french reg.   today........yes     after  4 months .

 you can buy 4 wheeled trailors with brakes in france without being reg ,ed that can carry 750kgs ,so home made trailors are ok up to this weight provided the lights ect are ok

you will also find out that your french car insurance will only cover you up to 750kg .. study you insurance doc.. if you ask your french broker for cover to carry more they will ask you for the reg nos for the trailor .so the trailor needs its own insurance.

now to get it french reg,ed   ......unless you can get a cirtificate of conformerty say from " ifor williams " type trailors , or a single vehicle cirtificate from like mine" indispestion " ....give up and leave it in the U.K. you will not get it done , or it will cost you more than a new one in france.

this is my own view from my own and last try to get it done , only cost me £50 for the cirtificate from indispestion and €87 for the inspection in france......

                    dave

[Sunday Driver]

 "you can buy 4 wheeled trailors with brakes in france without being reg ,ed that can carry 750kgs ,so home made trailors are ok up to this weight provided the lights ect are ok"

Dave, a trailer that can carry 750kg will have to be registered.  The key is the PTAC = Poid Totale Authorise en Charge.  This is the gross weight, ie trailer weight plus allowable payload).

Trailers with a PTAC in excess of 500kg require their own carte grise. Trailers with a PTAC in excess of 750 kgs also require brakes.

 

[Dave&Olive]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

 "you can buy 4 wheeled trailors with brakes in france without being reg ,ed that can carry 750kgs ,so home made trailors are ok up to this weight provided the lights ect are ok"

Dave, a trailer that can carry 750kg will have to be registered.  The key is the PTAC = Poid Totale Authorise en Charge.  This is the gross weight, ie trailer weight plus allowable payload).

Trailers with a PTAC in excess of 500kg require their own carte grise. Trailers with a PTAC in excess of 750 kgs also require brakes.

 

[/quote]

that`s what i said Diddle I

            dave

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Brilec"]As long as you tow it behind a suitable UK registered vehicle, with the correct number on the back, all should be OK to bring it to France, and tow it around like that for a reasonable time. Enough to get it registerd at least.[/quote]

The problem is I don't have an English resgistered vehicle!  Sold my trusty Landy in the UK before coming out here, not wanting to be lumbered with a RHD.

[Sunday Driver]

Cooperola

Sorry about the delay.  Here is the information you need in order to import your horse box into France.

If you have acquired a trailer with a PTAC >500kg from abroad, and it does not have a valid foreign registration (ie your horse box), then a provisonal WW carte grise authorising its use in France can be issued by your prefecture.  This enables you to have a temporary WW registration plate made up.

To obtain a WW carte grise, you'll need to produce the following:

- Demande de certificate d'immatriculation;

- Passport and proof of address;

- Original registration document or official document proving ownership;

- Original purchase invoice/receipt;

- Quittus fiscale certificate (VAT paid certificate from yout Hotel des Impots).

The WW carte grise is valid for 15 working days (excluding Saturdays, Sundays and fete days).  There is no extension to this period allowed, but in the event of a single vehicle approval test being required (and subject to proof in the form of the DRIRE appointment letter), a second and final WW carte grise can be issued in exchange for the original.  The WW carte grise is only valid within France and you must obtain your regular registration before their expiry.

That gives you just over a month in which to bring the trailer across and put it through the DRIRE inspection.

PS:  The registration fee for a trailer is 69 euros.

 

[Dave&Olive]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

Cooperola

Sorry about the delay.  Here is the information you need in order to import your horse box into France.

If you have acquired a trailer with a PTAC >500kg from abroad, and it does not have a valid foreign registration (ie your horse box), then a provisonal WW carte grise authorising its use in France can be issued by your prefecture.  This enables you to have a temporary WW registration plate made up.

To obtain a WW carte grise, you'll need to produce the following:

- Demande de certificate d'immatriculation;

- Passport and proof of address;

- Original registration document or official document proving ownership;

- Original purchase invoice/receipt;

- Quittus fiscale certificate (VAT paid certificate from yout Hotel des Impots).

The WW carte grise is valid for 15 working days (excluding Saturdays, Sundays and fete days).  There is no extension to this period allowed, but in the event of a single vehicle approval test being required (and subject to proof in the form of the DRIRE appointment letter), a second and final WW carte grise can be issued in exchange for the original.  The WW carte grise is only valid within France and you must obtain your regular registration before their expiry.

That gives you just over a month in which to bring the trailer across and put it through the DRIRE inspection.

PS:  The registration fee for a trailer is 69 euros.

 

[/quote]

    hi ok

              donot want to get into a slanging match on this one ,but just want to warn you of the pitfalls you will hit ........

   ok first the fee is now €89 just paid it

second i had  the single vehicle document from indispesion at a cost of £50 and it still failed the drire inspection .... i had to stamp the chassis nos on the chassis , change the fog lamp to the other side that was he easy part .

third had to clean up the brake back plates to find the conformerty nos as per the document ,so they could be inspected, same for the axles ect.

the trailor will go through the  mill by the drire just be warned how i would have got it through without the single vehicle document god only knows ,

posted for help only

                 dave

[Sunday Driver]

No slanging match here, Dave.....  [:)]

Your information is spot on and very relevent to Cooperola.

When I SVA'd my camper recently, the DRIRE told me my chassis number had to stamped in otherwise it would fail.  I eventually found it after a long search! I also changed the rear fog light over before the test.

Cooperola has been advised to contact his DRIRE for advice.  He may also be able to contact the chassis maker Alko and ask them if they can supply the attestation and technical notice which the DRIRE will require in order to inspect the trailer for conformity.

[Dave&Olive]

hi

     ok thanks for the no slanging match S>D. It was something the inspector said at the drire that worried me about trying to reg this trailor that the firm has gone out of business .he said " you can stamp any nos on the chassis and get away with it , you can do the same for the axles, you can change the towing hitch with a euro standard one  , the lights too...... but if the brakes have no conforming nos on the back plates you will not get it french reged."

                             dave 

[cooperlola]

Very late in responding to this one - a busy time of year what with a couple of 24-hour races going on down the road.

My trailer is arriving on Tuesday behind an old Landy which I have just acquired!  Have made myself a load of headaches I know but they won't be the first problems we've overcome.

 

My latest problem, however, is that I cannot find the original sale documents as the trailer is about 20 years old (although in very good nick as it has just had the floor renewed and had a massive makeover).  I take it this is going to give me another problem?

[Sunday Driver]

Welcome back , Cooperlola.

You're going to have some problems with this one.....

Firstly, I'd download the DRIRE pack for constructing a road trailer from [url=http://www.pays-de-la-loire.drire.gouv.fr/]HERE[/url].  Go to their vehicules page and select Cas pratiques de receptions a titre isole, then select Vous voulez construire une remorque routiere d'un poids totale en charge inferieur a 3500kg. (type originale).

This will give you the standard set of information that DRIRE will need in order to issue a single vehicle approval certificate. Because Sinclair are no longer in business, you'll have to look elsewhere for most of the stuff.  The critical area is the chassis and braking system, so you'll need to write to Alko and ask them for an attestation of conformity. Any other technical information that you can turn up eg from sales brochures, magazine articles etc, will be helpful.  Once you've got as much information as possiblel, I suggest you pay a visit to your local DRIRE office and discuss the matter with them. They'll help you fill in the technical descriptive notice (you may have to translate the english data for them).  Depending on how well you've done things and the state of the trailer, they should give you an indication of whether it's likely to pass or not.

Try that for starters......

 

 

 

[Cassis]

Link's busted - extra dot in the URL.  Try this:

Firstly, I'd download the DRIRE pack for constructing a road

trailer from HERE.

[Sunday Driver]

Thanks, Phil.  Fixed the link now.

 

[Cassis]

How come you know all this stuff, SD?

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Cassis"]How come you know all this stuff, SD?
[/quote]Er, quite.  SD is a veritable goldmine of information.

Thanks so much for that.  Luckily, I am in no hurry re the trailer as I have done without it for a couple of years so a few more months is neither here nor there.  Links all worked, will pay them a visit when I've collected the info.  There's chance I'll find the original bill too, you never know!

[Sunday Driver]

When I was a baby, my mother dropped a card index file on my head....  [:(]