Nick! Nick!

[MrCanary]

A friend told me today that the French and UK police have just signed an agreement for closer co-operation in bringing to justice motorists who get caught in cameras in each other's countries. Apparently, until now, they haven't bothered too much in pursuing these matters...

Anyone know if this is true?

[Sunday Driver]

This EU cross border enforcement initiative has been developed over a period of time and the UK and France were one of the first to buy into it.  In fact the French have been very keen given that around a third of all radar flashes for speeding involves foreign registered vehicles.

Some EU states are already sharing information and the UK Road Safety Act 2006 came into force last month empowering the DVLA to provide the French authorities with UK driver and vehicle licence details.  The next stage is to allow French traffic infringements to be applied though the UK courts and vice versa.

 

[MrCanary]

Thanks for such a comprehensive response SD...

[pugwash]

I think you will find it is already active, over the last 4 years I have been driving regularly in France on business, so I have kept an ear open for it. I am fairly sure that as of last summer, if you transgress in France, you will pay the "on the Spot" if stopped, or you will be contacted if not, but either way you will get the 3 points on your license as if the offence was commited in the UK.

[Chief]

[quote user="pugwash"]I think you will find it is already active, over the last 4 years I have been driving regularly in France on business, so I have kept an ear open for it. I am fairly sure that as of last summer, if you transgress in France, you will pay the "on the Spot" if stopped, or you will be contacted if not, but either way you will get the 3 points on your license as if the offence was commited in the UK.[/quote]

Liklihood is that it will be enforced one way only.  The french will prosecute the brits, but the DVLA/brit govt will be too lazy to chase the french.  Another one sided treaty, like the Nat West 3 extradition.

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Chief"]

  Another one sided treaty, like the Nat West 3 extradition.

[/quote]

Please tell me more......................................

[Deimos]

[quote user="Bugbear"][quote user="Chief"]

  Another one sided treaty, like the Nat West 3 extradition.

[/quote]

Please tell me more......................................

[/quote]

I think what Chief is referring to are the extradition agreements between UK and US. Some time ago the UK ratified a new agreement so it is now (for quite some to time now) easier for people to be extradited UK to US. However, US does not seem to want to ratify the same agreements the other way (despite many opportunities). Thus US can extradite people from the UK easily yet for the UK to extradite people from the US is somewhat harder. UK government have hailed all this as a great success !!. Might be wrong but I think this might be what Chief means.

Ian

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="Chief"]

Liklihood is that it will be enforced one way only.  The french will prosecute the brits, but the DVLA/brit govt will be too lazy to chase the french. 

[/quote]

What makes you think that?

 

[Bugsy]

Thanks Ian.

An example would be the current extradition of the 'hacker' who broke into the US security systems. He faces 60 years in jail if found guilty, unbelieveable...............................[:@]

[pugwash]

Before we get too far from the original thread, whatever happens it will probably appear to be one sided, because in reality, the same driving experience I described earlier enables me to say that the number of high speed French cars flying past me on the motorways of the UK is approximately none, whereas whilst doing only about 15 % of my driving in France has enabled me to witness more incidents of the the opposite than I care to remember, and before the French tightened their laws I was also guilty of doing speeds in France I would not have done in the UK. So although I detest the present UK government, the real answer is closer to home.

[MrCanary]

I tend to agree about the high speed cars, pugwash.

On UK motorways, the outside lane is almost always populated by UK registered vehicles, very rarely do I see foreigners bashing along at high speed. Yet in France, it seems to be the drivers from all over Europe (noy just Britain) who steam along at high speed with the occasional French car amongst them.

Out of interest, on a good clear day on the autoroutes of France, when the speed limit is 130ks - which I believe is about 81.5mph - I tend to set my cruise control at 85mph. However, I still get passed by car after car after car.

With me pinching 3.5mph, does anybody know if the French police have a tolerance zone such as in the UK where it is about 10% + 2mph?

  

[Sunday Driver]

Mel

130kph equals 80.78mph.  If that's the speed limit, then why don't you just set your cruise control to 80mph?  What advantage do you get from the additional 3.5mph - apart from completing an hour's journey 3 minutes and 13 seconds earlier?

85mph is 137 kph.  A fixed radar flash at this speed will be enforced as 130kph.  Yes, your speedo will overread slightly, but it's a bit close for comfort....

 

[Cat]

Mel, Bugbear posted the general settings and margins for fixed speed cameras in France a while ago. You can find them here...  http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/873198/ShowPost.aspx

[Bob T]

Mel, if it OK for you to "pinch" 3.5mph then surly it is OK for anyone to "pinch" 30mph. Breaking the law is, after all, breaking the law.

If you were burgled  twice and one of them only stole a garden chair, would you not bother with him but pursue the one that stole the TV?

[MrCanary]

SD and Bob T - I cannot argue with the points you make. I suppose it is, pathetically thinking, rounding things up rather than, as you said, running it down to 80kph. And when, as you point out, it only makes about 3 minutes difference on an hour's journey, that emphasises your point. My lapses are only on open roads. Speed limits in built-up areas, anywhere in the world, I comply with.

But I have to say there is a huge difference between being 3.5kph over and 30kph over. This is why, in the UK, people who break speed limits by more than 30mph almost always receive an automatic ban. Those who break them by 3.5mph do not even get stopped. Whilst I fully accept the point you make Bob, I am afraid the analogy of comparing burglaries and speed limits does not equate. However, you have both made good points and my cruise control will be at 80mph when I am next in France!

PS - Cat - thanks for the link, the information is very interesting.

 

[David]

    As I understood it, when you are on the  Motorway you are timed from the 'Billet' you collect and then hand it in at the Toll Booth. At least the last time I was in France (a while back now) this seemed to occur especially when I saw the Toll Booth operator waving at a large number of Gendarmes the other side of the Toll. There were an awful lot of cars Foreign and French being 'spoken' to.

As a retired Copper I always take the view, if you speed and get caught then fair doos'. Mind you that's not to say I don't speed, 'cos I do. But having been a graded Driver and a Biker I seem to have more eyes than most and so far after 33yrs have never been caught or stopped. But there is still time I suppose. I suppose now I will get stopped going down to Carcassone in June!

David

[Ford Anglia]

[quote user="pugwash"]I think you will find it is already active, over the last 4 years I have been driving regularly in France on business, so I have kept an ear open for it. I am fairly sure that as of last summer, if you transgress in France, you will pay the "on the Spot" if stopped, or you will be contacted if not, but either way you will get the 3 points on your license as if the offence was commited in the UK.[/quote]

I wonder how long they have to chase us, like the two weeks the UK Scammers have to deliver the NIP?

Reason I ask, is that I was flashed about a year ago but have heard nowt.

I think it's time all UK motorists fitted false plates............[;-)]

[Bob T]

Why go to the bother of fitting false plates? Keep wiithin the limits and there will be no problem.

[Ford Anglia]

[quote user="pugwash"]Before we get too far from the original thread, whatever happens it will probably appear to be one sided, because in reality, the same driving experience I described earlier enables me to say that the number of high speed French cars flying past me on the motorways of the UK is approximately none, whereas whilst doing only about 15 % of my driving in France has enabled me to witness more incidents of the the opposite than I care to remember, and before the French tightened their laws I was also guilty of doing speeds in France I would not have done in the UK. So although I detest the present UK government, the real answer is closer to home.[/quote]

However, the speed limits seem to be enforced, at least as far as on-the-spot-fines are concerned, more rigorously on foreigners.

Witness the times I've been passed at speed, through a radar trap, by both French and foreign (UK, NL, D, B, etc ) cars on approach to a tollbooth, only to see the foreigners stopped, and the French ignored. This is NOT something I THINK happens, it is the evidence of my own eyes on more than one occasion.

My dad was once stopped on the A7 many years ago and fined on the spot. He asked the Gendarme, "Et les voitures Francaises, qui m'ont doublees?".

The Gendarme just shrugged. Nary a one had been stopped.

 

[Ford Anglia]

[quote user="Bob T"]Why go to the bother of fitting false plates? Keep wiithin the limits and there will be no problem.
[/quote]

The wink tells it all..........it was a joke, wind up etc.

BUT: unless the UK Scamera partnerships stop favouring front facing cameras, that could well be the way to go. See my response in the speeding thread.

[pugwash]

OK, while we are this kind of mood, tell me what you think of this conundrum. There is always a lot of moaning about "middle lane hogs" in the UK, so tell me you wise birds, if someone is doing 75 mph (therefore illegally) in the middle lane, and someone else comes storming up at a faster speed, has he or she got any right to be annoyed by the "middle lane hog " just because his illegal speed is greater.  ???

[Pickles]

[quote user="Ford Anglia"]

However, the speed limits seem to be enforced, at least as far as on-the-spot-fines are concerned, more rigorously on foreigners.

Witness the times I've been passed at speed, through a radar trap, by both French and foreign (UK, NL, D, B, etc ) cars on approach to a tollbooth, only to see the foreigners stopped, and the French ignored. This is NOT something I THINK happens, it is the evidence of my own eyes on more than one occasion.

My dad was once stopped on the A7 many years ago and fined on the spot. He asked the Gendarme, "Et les voitures Francaises, qui m'ont doublees?".

The Gendarme just shrugged. Nary a one had been stopped.

 [/quote]

Won't the French drivers who have been "flashed" just get their come-uppance through the post?

Pickles

[MrCanary]

pugwash - 'middle lane hogs' in the UK do my head in! It is not just the fact they are selfish and often cause unnecessary tailbacks, it is the fact they are not concentrating and a potential danger to all other road users.

There should be greater efforts to wake these people up. Perhaps a return to the old adverts that used to appear on TV when motorways first came about, telling drivers to return to the left-most lane after overtaking...

Which brings me to another point - Have you noticed that, after overtaking, French drivers almost always return to the right-most lane fairly soon after their manoeuvre? But some of them do it so quickly they almost take your front bumper with them!

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="Mel "]

Which brings me to another point - Have you noticed that, after overtaking, French drivers almost always return to the right-most lane fairly soon after their manoeuvre? But some of them do it so quickly they almost take your front bumper with them!

[/quote]

The French are clearly better drivers, more disciplined, and more considerate to other road users than UK motorists. 

However, I suspect it's because failing to return to the right hand lane can get them a 135 euro fine, three points and a suspension.......[:-))]

 

[Ron Avery]

 "As I understood it, when you are on the  Motorway you are timed

from the 'Billet' you collect and then hand it in at the Toll Booth"   I have never in 20 years of autoroute motoring in France seen anybody asked to produce their billet, have you???

This is an absolute urban myth, put out on GM TV one morning , it just does not happen.  Think about it, you could be doing 150kph all the way, stop in a Aire and record the same journey time as a car doing 110kph.  If there are Gendarmes at the toll booths they are checking approach speeds  as they go down sharply on the approaches.