Slowly home Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Our day started poorly with wet weather – and quickly gotworse.There were only two of us and we still managed to get separated (he'dstopped to pick up my small rucksack when it fell from my rack.100 yard fromour hotel in St Etienne. I know he did 'cos I saw him going the other way withit on his back!) The only thing I could think to do (once I realised that mymobile had been in the rucksack) was travel on to Cannes and arrange via athird party, to meet up with him there. I tried and failed to use the payphone.In the distance (much later) I saw my chance. I spied some GB plates. When they stopped for a photo opportunity I stopped too and asked to borrow aphone. I sent a message to my friend that I would meet him by the harbour inCannes. I never made it to Cannes.The riders I'd begged a phone off were stopping in Grasse for a roadside cuppaand I invited myself along. They were fair shifting and being at the back, Istruggled to keep up through the traffic. It’s always bad news being the ‘tail-endCharlie’.The Gendarme was only interested in my Visa card and me. I didn't mind a fine, I mean, come on, it's all part of the way life and takenas a risk by most motorcyclists but £750 Euro? I suffered the indignity ofbeing 'paraded' through Castelanne with the police explaining to the locals inloud 'vroom-vroom' noises (with the twist of the wrist actions thrown in forgood measure) exactly why I was there. It took me three days to withdraw the bond. It wasn't a fine. It was just tomake sure (I think) that if I didn't turn up for the court case, they'dstill have some cash out of me. Oh, and I was banned too. As you may already have realised, this is the 1sttime I’ve written one of these things. I may be rambling a bit, so here are thequestions (finally), can anybody please advise me on what to do next? I have a lot of pieces of paper all written, of course, inFrench.One gives my appearance date in September at the Tribunal dePolice, Digne Les Bains. This was given to me at the station.Another letter posted to me at home explained – I think –about a five month ban and a form for a French medical that I have to take before I amallowed back into France as a driver. Questions;If I already have a ban, do I still need to attend the hearing?Can I have a medical in this country instead?Can anybody point me in the right direction?If I ignore the hearing, what will happen next visit? Kevin - sorry to be giving the Brits abroad a bad name-McNeice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Bad luck - I got a 150 euro fine in Spain last year on the way to the Barcelona GP and they were only interested in Visa payment.It still hasn't turned up on my statement so good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Sorry on re-reading I gather you are UK resident and presumably therefore a UK licence holder so here is my take on the situation although others may see things differently.The French have no practical power to force you to return to France to attend a tribunal court for a motoring offence. The medical I'm pretty sure will be in order to obtain a French driving licence by exchanging it for your UK one, I can't think of any other reason for it, but again they have no power to force you to do that and in fact I think, as a non French resident hence with no French address , technically you cannot hold a French licence anyway, the 5 month ban on driving in France however is enforceable, even with a UK licence.The question of returning to France might be a tricky as if you came to the attention of the Gendarmes it's possible, although not a given, that your past indiscretion could surface and cause you significant difficulties. On the plus side I'm not aware that France has any national database of foreign offenders so your details may only be recorded in the Prefecture or department where you were nabbed.What too do then,I think that you can just ignore it but you will of course forfeit your bond. Certainly if you are (were) intending visiting France again in the near future I'd think about putting those plans on hold. In the longer term it will doubtless eventually disappear into some dusty filing cabinet never to bee seen again....unless ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowly home Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 Hi, sorry I never thought. I'm a Yorkshireman so British I suppose technically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Dordogne Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I've got some experience of this tho second hand having guided several people through this sort of thing over the past couple of years.You must have been going way over the limit to have been hit with such a large fine and an immediate ban, usually a ban is no more than a month and the court case is organised round that date.Your ban is NOT instead of the court case, that's just to keep you off the road because your speed was held to be dangerous. I would imagine that the Gendarmes took your UK licence off you so you now have to get a replacement from the DVLA - you MUST tell them the circumstances under which it was lost, it won't make it any more difficult to get a replacement but if you just say you lost it, you commit an offence.No, you can't be compelled to return for the case but as said above, you loose your bond. And, if you don't attend, you can expect a hefty fine, even be jailed in your absence. That may not mean too much to you but remember, all your details of future visits to France are recorded - as they are now, plenty of comments about that on this Forum - and if you don't appear, pay your fine etc, you can expect to be arrested if you ever get stopped and checked when visiting France again.There is for sure a system to have your details on the French national police computer so if you get caught again, expect to be arrested if you don't pay your fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowly home Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 Hi Tony,Thanks for that although it's really not what I WANTED to hear.As you have been so helpful, could I ask another favour?A part translation of the last letter - or the important bits of it at any rate... it reads as follows:".......En consequence, j'ai decide de vous infliger une measure de suspension provisoire immediate de permis de conduire (ci-annexee) pour une duree de ; 5 mois a compter de la date de retrait du titre.Par ailleurs, il vous appartient de vous soumettre a un examen medical aupres de la commission medical departmentale, avantla restitutionde votre permit de conduire.A cet effet, il convient d'adresser immediatement a une Préfecture ou un Sous-Préfecture de France L'imprimede demande de visite madicale que vous trouverez ci-joint.Une notice D'information relative aux effets de cette mesure restrictive du droit de conduire est également jointe amon envoi.Veuillez agreer, Monsuieur, l'expression de ma ....etc."I'll apologise for my typing now. Anyhow,I do get the gist but not the detail.I don't understand why I need a medical if I still have to go to court.Any further help would be much appreciated.oh, and I was done for 152 in a 90. not big or clever I know.Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote user="Slowly home"]............oh, and I was done for 152 in a 90. not big or clever I know.Kevin[/quote]You broke the '50k' over the posted limit which 'clicks' you into 'serious' territory.You're lucky that your bike wasn't confiscated as well.Bit late for you Kevin, but there is 'tons' of stuff on the web now warning UK riders and drivers of the massive increase in 'speeding catchers' [:@] that has happened in the last few years in France.They are everywhere so unless you have a lot of cash and/or several licences it really does make sense to ride/drive sensibly.(for the benefit of BobT, who will pick up on my last comment [:P], yes I did get a ticket two months ago, 107 in a 90. 45 euros if paid promtly on t'internet and 1 point on the licence). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote user="Slowly home"]I don't understand why I need a medical if I still have to go to court.[/quote]A medical before the licence is returned is required if the licence has been withdrawn for longer than a month.No medical = no return of licence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Thanks for the corrected info Tony.[quote user="Clair"]A medical before the licence is returned is required if the licence has been withdrawn for longer than a month.No medical = no return of licence[/quote]A licence which the OP didn't have in the first place and likely never will have even if he does attend the tribunal, very logical [blink]Just for info's sake, a medical for a driving licence would have to be done in France as only designated French doctors can perform it.A question: If your licence was confiscated and you were banned from driving in France how did you get back to blighty ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote user="AnOther"]A licence which the OP didn't have in the first place and likely never will have even if he does attend the tribunal, very logical [blink][/quote]The OP asked the reason for the medical; I explained. The law is not tailored to individual circumstances and the fact that the OP does not hold a French licence does not preclude the law from being applied.Even Lewis Hamilton was fined and banned from driving in France... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 I was not criticising your response at all Clair, just making an observation as to the absurdity of it [kiss][kiss] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Dordogne Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Kevin, sort of down to you really, sorry especially if your thread is read in conjunction with another there is running here atm, hope Mark reads this also!Ernie, it's not the logic of it, it's just the law. Basically Kevin, as Clair said, if you're banned here for more than a month and you want to drive in France again, you have to have the medical. At that speed you can expect a hefty fine and a further ban. If you get a replacement licence from the DVLA and decide to drive again in France during your period of banning and get another pull, expect to spend a few nights in a cell and a visit to court to explain yourself and the loss of your bike or car.And as said above you were very lucky not to have your vehicle confiscated or at least impounded and regardless of what other bikers who are regular users here may say, get caught here, the police have much greater powers to immediately take you off the road. And the reason that the G man was making such a fuss about you to people in the street is that there is a large crackdown on bikers this year because of the number of deaths and injuries that they receive and cause, wrong place, wrong time and for sure, wrong speed.A salutory lesson for other bikers I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Clair, Tony, are you saying that even to drive again in France on ones UK licence you need a French medical ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Dordogne Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote user="AnOther"]A licence which the OP didn't have in the first place and likely never will have even if he does attend the tribunal, very logical [/quote]Ernie, he did have the licence, it's just that the Gendarmes acting on behalf of the Prefecteur in these cases, pulled it, the return of the licence to the DVLA will be done by the Prefet, not the G men. If the Procureur decides that the case is serious enough, he/she can go to the Court of Appeal and have the ban extended BEFORE the case gets to the Tribunal - and the Appeal Court can, in exceptional cases, agree to make the ban for life or for - say - 3 years BEFORE the Tribunal, all pending a counter appeal by the defendant.Much harsher and speedier than the UK but none of the namby-pamby Magistrates stuff here, the Procureur has many more aggressive powers and uses them frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Dordogne Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote user="AnOther"]Clair, Tony, are you saying that even to drive again in France on ones UK licence you need a French medical ?[/quote]Not at all Ernie, what I'm saying that is that if the OP gets a replacement UK licence, he's still banned in France. The medical, to some extent, doesn't come into it as he's not a French resident and is driving on a UK licence tho at least for 5 months he's banned here and is likely to be banned further after the Tribunal.As his country of residence isn't France, the UK regs apply to him. He's received a standard letter from the G men which they would also send to a French driver. I think that unless you live here, the medical thing is a red herring, it's the ban that's important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 I believe that this is the case. I will try and find confirmation.[quote] Suspension administrative Le permis de conduire peut être suspenduadministrativement si une infraction grave au code de la route estcommise, qui peut être : un dépassement dangereux,le non-respect d'un stop, un délit de fuite, un excès de vitesse (lorsque le dépassement de 40km/h ou plus de la vitesse maximale autorisée est établi au moyen d'unappareil homologué et lorsque le véhicule est intercepté). Dans les 72 heures de rétention du permis deconduire, la suspension de celui-ci peut être prononcée par unreprésentant de l'Etat (le préfet du département où l'infraction estcommise) pour une durée qui ne peut excéder six mois. Effets de la suspension La suspension prend effet le jour où la décision a été notifiée au conducteur. Elle entraîne pour la même durée et dans les mêmesconditions la suspension de tout autre permis de conduire dont il esttitulaire. Il risque une amende assortie d'un emprisonnement de six mois, s'il conduit sans permis. Source[/quote] Administrative suspension The license may be suspended administratively if a serious breach of the Highway Code is committed, which may be: * hazardous overtaking * Failure to comply with a stop, * A hit and run, * Speeding (when exceeding 40 km/h or more than the maximumspeed limit is established by means of a device approved and when thevehicle is stopped). Within 72 hours of retention of driver's license, suspension ofthe latter may be imposed by a state representative (the prefect of thedepartment where the offense is committed) for a period not exceedingsix months. Consequences of suspension The suspension takes effect the day the decision was notified to the driver. It shall be the same duration and under the same conditions the suspension of any other license that he holds. It risks a fine with an imprisonment of six months, if conducted without a permit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob T Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 "(for the benefit of BobT, who will pick up on my last comment , yes I did get a ticket two months ago, 107 in a 90. 45 euros if paid promtly on t'internet and 1 point on the licence)"I wasn't going to say a word! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polly Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 If the OP is so stupid, so reckless, and so careless of the security of others to ride at 152kph in a 90 limit I'm not going to waste my time translating texts or giving him advice - other than to tell him to slow down - and I'm surprised that the rest of you are!152 is nigh on a ton in miles, in a 56 mph limit, that's serious anywhere.Tough mate, time you grew up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 I think the French law enforcement agencies are dealing with the matter appropriately, there is no need for anyone else to be judge and jury in addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sid Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote user="Tony F Dordogne"]A salutory lesson for other bikers I think.[/quote]Surely a lesson for other DRIVERS [geek] It's not just bikers who exceed the speed limit.Sid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Worse things than a ban can happen . . . We might have all got a buzz from speeding sometimes, but reality kicks in too; in these grusome but salutory shots, the biker couldn't stopNot for the squeamish http://www.snopes.com/photos/accident/tulsacrash.aspSwedish drive and stay alive campaign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 [quote user="Russethouse"]I think the French law enforcement agencies are dealing with the matter appropriately, there is no need for anyone else to be judge and jury in addition.[/quote]Yes, but this person is thinking of not going back and facing the consequences!Doing 152kph in a 90 zone is total and utter stupidity and the person should face up to what they have done.And yes, if he wants to kill himself then fine - but there is always the possibility of others being killed. Therefore, as they could be the one killed in an accident then they surely have a right to comment.The person should return to France and take whatever punishment is given and not try scheming their way out of it OR feel sorry for themselves as they were the only one stopped.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypandy Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I see the sanctimonious police are out and about again.Just to put my penniesworth in, speed in itself is not dangerous, it depends on the circumstances and as we don't know those, its perhapsnot appropriate to criticise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polly Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Oh yes it is ok to criticise! This is a forum, where opinions are sought and given.So often bikers say 'it's car drivers who don't take care so we get hurt'. The ads tell us to watch out for bikes at T junctions. At the OPs speed none of us would have a chance of seeing him until it was too late.Here the speed as admitted by the OP is well out of order, not just getting flashed for say 55 in a 50 limitThat stretch of road he was on is well known and loved by bikers, but those who exceed the limit so seriously must accept the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 [quote user="P2"][quote user="Russethouse"]I think the French law enforcement agencies are dealing with the matter appropriately, there is no need for anyone else to be judge and jury in addition.[/quote]Yes, but this person is thinking of not going back and facing the consequences!Doing 152kph in a 90 zone is total and utter stupidity and the person should face up to what they have done.And yes, if he wants to kill himself then fine - but there is always the possibility of others being killed. Therefore, as they could be the one killed in an accident then they surely have a right to comment.The person should return to France and take whatever punishment is given and not try scheming their way out of it OR feel sorry for themselves as they were the only one stopped.Paul[/quote]Can you point to the post where the OP states that ? He asks :Questions;If I already have a ban, do I still need to attend the hearing? Can I have a medical in this country instead? Can anybody point me in the right direction? If I ignore the hearing, what will happen next visit? Kevin - sorry to be giving the Brits abroad a bad name- McNeiceAnd Polly, what you suggested was that no one here should bother helping the OP - how useful would that be? Especially when he has already admitted being in the wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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