Green card insurance certificate

[connolls]

Hi,

We are travelling to France in a couple of weeks, on all the government websites it says we no longer require a "green card".

We know that we will require a "top up" to ensure that we are covered comprehensively in France for the couple of weeks we are there.

I have just been reading that "some parts of France" still ask for the green card...........does anyone have any experience of this ? We are travelling through France to Limousin.

Thanks for any info.

Mel.

[pachapapa]

my green card lasts for 12 months, every year, i only uses it when i am outside france

[AnOther]

A cryptic reply which doesn't help the OP in the slightest [blink]

You do not need a green card to visit any European country nor do 'some parts of France' ask for one, that is as bizarre as suggesting that you needed different insurance in Scotland than you did in England or Wales !

The green card of old was basically just a method of proving to non English speakers that you had valid insurance but for some time now the necessary proof is to be found on the reverse of your UK certificate hence you no longer need one. Note that will not prevent some insurance companies trying to sell one to you though !

Regarding a top up if you have comprehensive insurance in UK then it is almost certain that it will automatically extend your comprehensive cover in Europe, and a handful of other countries, for a set period each year. Typically this might be 30, 60, or even 90 days but you would have to consult your specific policy to find out exactly.

Even when that period expires your insurance remains valid but drops to the minimum required in the country in which you are driving, in most cases this will be simple 3rd party. Short of a policy actually expiring whilst you are abroad at no time are you left uninsured.

Enjoy your trip and put thoughts of green cards out of your mind [:D]

[pachapapa]

[quote user="AnOther"]A cryptic reply which doesn't help the OP in the slightest [blink]

You do not need a green card to visit any European country nor do 'some parts of France' ask for one, that is as bizarre as suggesting that you needed different insurance in Scotland than you did in England or Wales !

The green card of old was basically just a method of proving to non English speakers that you had valid insurance but for some time now the necessary proof is to be found on the reverse of your UK certificate hence you no longer need one. Note that will not prevent some insurance companies trying to sell one to you though !

Regarding a top up if you have comprehensive insurance in UK then it is almost certain that it will automatically extend your comprehensive cover in Europe, and a handful of other countries, for a set period each year. Typically this might be 30, 60, or even 90 days but you would have to consult your specific policy to find out exactly.

Even when that period expires your insurance remains valid but drops to the minimum required in the country in which you are driving, in most cases this will be simple 3rd party. Short of a policy actually expiring whilst you are abroad at no time are you left uninsured.

Enjoy your trip and put thoughts of green cards out of your mind [:D]
[/quote]

Let me be more explicit the green card in france is coloured green and consists of two green bits. One bit is neatly snipped of the corner and is then placed in a clear plastic pocket stuck to the windscreen this is called the Certificate of Insurance. The other portion contains details of the vehicule and the address and name of the owner. The green card is valid in my case from 05/03/10 until 04/03/11 and this tear I note that RUS has a stroke through it but I am not anticipating going to Russia. Previously the green card was obtained covering the anticipated period of being out of france; for the past several years the card has covered the complete and full period of insurance. It is however most definitely a green card. I am surprised that the UK does not apparently follow similar procedures in accordance with the relevant EEU Directive.But it would seem from your post that the UK is unique in Europe with no green card at all.

Am I unique or does someone else have a vehicle matriculated in france with a green square stuck on their windscreen?

[Loiseau]

I think the OP is talking about a *UK-registered vehicle* being driven in France, ppp.

UK insurers, as stated by AnOther, no longer issue a temporary green card for travel to France. There should be a phrase in French (and several other languages) on the back of your normal insurance certificate to the effect that your vehicle is insured. (You must always have the vehicle's registration document and insurance certificate with you when driving in France, as well as your driving licence and ID - oh, and a yellow hi-vis jacket.)

It's as well to ring your UK insurer and made sure that your overseas cover would be as comprehensive as your normal UK cover though. You don't want to find out that it's third-party only when you have a prang! (Unless that's the normal level you go for, of course.)

Angela

[Jimmy]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

[quote user="AnOther"]A cryptic reply which doesn't help the OP in the slightest [blink]

[/quote]

Let me be more explicit the green card in france is coloured green and consists of two green bits.

Am I unique or does someone else have a vehicle matriculated in france with a green square stuck on their windscreen?

[/quote]

Yet another stupid, wind up response from pachapapa. The OP said they were "travelling to France in a couple of weeks" not that they lived in France.

[Araucaria]

I'd say it wasn't just a good idea to tell your insurer before you go, it could be essential.

Some English friends driving a UK registered car had a nasty experience in fog on an autoroute, left the road and wrecked the car (no-one else involved, driver unhurt). But the UK insurance was the one that Joanna Lumley advertises. They hadn't told the insurers they were going to France, so the cover they had was the basic minimum, and they lost a lot of money as a result.

Some insurers, such as Saga, give you the same cover in Europe as they do in the UK, without you having to tell them. Others require you to tell them but don't charge extra unless the stay is a long one, and others make you pay. As reading the small print is often a waste of time, making a quick phone call could save you a lot of money.

And I wonder if the OP's "some parts of France" where you need a green card might not be the DOM/TOM? Anyone know what's needed in St Pierre & Miquelon?

[AnOther]

Whilst there can be no harm in informing your insurance company of a foreign trip as tedious as it may be you should always find the time to read the T&C's as they will state in black and white exactly what you are or are or not covered for. If they do not specifically require you to inform them then they can have no grounds for refusing a claim if you do not.

By all means phone for clarification on anything you are unsure of but regard it as supplementary information to the written T&C's as that is the contract and what will ultimately stand in case of a dispute. If you receive answers which conflict with the T&C's then get them in writing.

 

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Loiseau"]I think the OP is talking about a *UK-registered vehicle* being driven in France, ppp. UK insurers, as stated by AnOther, no longer issue a temporary green card for travel to France. There should be a phrase in French (and several other languages) on the back of your normal insurance certificate to the effect that your vehicle is insured. (You must always have the vehicle's registration document and insurance certificate with you when driving in France, as well as your driving licence and ID - oh, and a yellow hi-vis jacket.) It's as well to ring your UK insurer and made sure that your overseas cover would be as comprehensive as your normal UK cover though. You don't want to find out that it's third-party only when you have a prang! (Unless that's the normal level you go for, of course.) Angela[/quote]

My two daughters left for hereford on tuesday afternoon driving on "green card" cover ( green because of colour of paper),ie only the basic third party minimum required by french law. Comprehensive insurance has nothing to do with the green card, always been a matter for the insurer and policy holder. The implementation of the European Directive removed the need to obtain a green card before leaving the country of registration; the green card is now INCLUDED in the annual insurance for the whole year; for example I can leave france at any time without informing my insurer and indeed there is also NO LIMIT on time or frequency. In france the Certificat of Insurance is included as part of the Carte Internationaled'Assurance Automobile/International Motor Insurance Card (known as green card cos it printed on green paper....green card per se has NO international legal identity); the Certificat d'Assurance portion is legally not a part of the green card so cutting it off does nothing to the validity of the green card bit; Article R211-21-1 of the Code des Assurances requires it to be attached to the windscreen.

The Council of Bureaux (International Association of National Motor Insurers' Bureaux) is the Managing Organisation of the "Green Card System" (note inverted commas).

http://www.cobx.org/

The OPs insurance will automatically cover Third Party Civil Liability whilst outside the UK in accordance with the minimum provisions required by the country in which the vehicule is used. The OP will not have to apply for a "green card" it is included with the policy. Comprehensive Insurance depends on the insurer, few include it.

Conditions same as me in france, the 4 Motor Insurance Directives were consolidated in Directive 2009/103/EC; all part of that feedom of movement jazz.[:)]

[cooperlola]

Connols, when we lived in the UK our insurers (Direct Line) insisted that we advise of foreign travel in advance to ensure we had comprehensive cover.  For third party only (such as I had on my old van), it was not necessary.  What is useful is having a blank constat aimable d'accident automobile (the form you fill in over here in the event of a prang) which was provided by our UK insurers when we flagged up a continental trip.  Is this what you're thinking of? The "green card" (not to be confused with the green vignette which cars insured in France have) per se, is now - in effect - defunct.

But check your own insurer's terms and conditions.  They are all that count. Not my opinion or anybody else's really[:)].

[pachapapa]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

Connols, when we lived in the UK our insurers (Direct Line) insisted that we advise of foreign travel in advance to ensure we had comprehensive cover.  For third party only (such as I had on my old van), it was not necessary.  What is useful is having a blank constat aimable d'accident automobile (the form you fill in over here in the event of a prang) which was provided by our UK insurers when we flagged up a continental trip.  Is this what you're thinking of? The "green card" (not to be confused with the green vignette which cars insured in France have) per se, is now - in effect - defunct.

But check your own insurer's terms and conditions.  They are all that count. Not my opinion or anybody else's really[:)].

[/quote]

Are you sure:::: the letter from Mutuelle de Poitiers Assurances which is very firmly attached to my green card states in the third paragraph....Conservez votre carte verte dont la presentation est obligatoire en cas de contrôle. N'oubliez pas de detacher le certificat d'assurance te de apposer sur votre véhicule.....my green card even has an identification number giving Country, Insurer and Number of the Policy.[:)]

[cooperlola]

[quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="cooperlola"]

Connols, when we lived in the UK our insurers (Direct Line) insisted that we advise of foreign travel in advance to ensure we had comprehensive cover.  For third party only (such as I had on my old van), it was not necessary.  What is useful is having a blank constat aimable d'accident automobile (the form you fill in over here in the event of a prang) which was provided by our UK insurers when we flagged up a continental trip.  Is this what you're thinking of? The "green card" (not to be confused with the green vignette which cars insured in France have) per se, is now - in effect - defunct.

But check your own insurer's terms and conditions.  They are all that count. Not my opinion or anybody else's really[:)].

[/quote]

Are you sure:::: the letter from Mutuelle de Poitiers Assurances which is very firmly attached to my green card states in the third paragraph....Conservez votre carte verte dont la presentation est obligatoire en cas de contrôle. N'oubliez pas de detacher le certificat d'assurance te de apposer sur votre véhicule.....my green card even has an identification number giving Country, Insurer and Number of the Policy.[:)]

[/quote]Re-read the bit in brackets in my post.  And put that wooden spoon back in the drawer.[Www]

[AnOther]

PPP - it might help things along and save some uneccesary typing if you said whether you were being deliberately obtuse by persisting in make reference to French insurance when it is patently clear that it is UK we are talking about [Www]

[pachapapa]

[quote user="AnOther"]

PPP - it might help things along and save some uneccesary typing if you said whether you were being deliberately obtuse by persisting in make reference to French insurance when it is patently clear that it is UK we are talking about [Www]

[/quote]

Never obtuse one of the happy EU family; under the freedom of movement principle in the EU we all have the same access to the International Certificate Motor Insurance. The Directive 2009/103/EC applies to all countries of the European Union. Yes I do remember the situation prior to the 4 Motor Insurance Directives when I had to apply for a Green Card for a limited period; done it in both UK and France. There would appear to be very definitely obtuseness in UK that has convinced the OP that he needs to get a green card when he already has one.

[Clair]

Goodness, you two are like an old married couple! [:-))]

[Salty Sam]

Connolls,

Back to your original enquiry, take a look at your Insurance Policy Document and within you will find a detailed summary of what cover you have available.

You state you will require a "top up", is this because your existing policy is providing only 3rd Party cover ?

As your vehicle insurance cover is provided from a UK insurer, I would suggest that you contact them to get further clarification.

Rest assured however, you DO NOT require a seperate Green Card for France, or any other EU member state. 

[connolls]

Thanks for all the replies......especially the ones that made sense, but I do enjoy the "banter".

Its all clear to me now, I am covered with comprehensive insurance in the UK, but just need to inform them of my journey to France so that "the top up" continues to be comprehensive in France and doesn't drop to third party.

Thanks once again.

Mel

[Will]

Have a read of your policy document (usually available on line, if you can't find it) under 'European cover' or a similar heading, and check it against any inclusions/exclusions on your schedule.

Some policies automatically extend the same coverage you have at home to Europe. Others (the majority) have specific requirements, such as a limit of 30 days per trip and/or 90 days total, or require you to notify them. Some will want an extra payment to extend the cover.

But whatever your insurer says, or tries to make you believe, a policy taken out in one member state will give legal minimum cover in any other member state. That is EU law. So as long as your policy is current you will never find yourself uninsured for legal purposes.

[Wibblywobbly]

First of all I have worked in the motor insurance industry in the UK, so this information is accurate.

If the vehicle is UK registered then it is UK insured.

The policy applies to the policy holder not the vehicle.

A policy holder can amend their policy. Eg Change of vehicle, reg no, location, etc etc.

To insure a vehicle under a UK policy the policy holder must have a financial interest in the UK, this usually means a house. The reason being that in the event of a dodgy claim the underwriters need to know that they can trace you.

If any details provided by the policy holder are incorrect, or if any changes occur during the policy year and the insurers are not advised, then the insurers are quite within their rights to void any claims, or cancel the policy.

This includes speeding tickets, or any other road traffic offences that are recorded on your licence.

In the event of a claim when details arise of which they were not aware, they will apply those changes on a backdated basis and calculate the charges that would have arisen over the period. So if you do not tell them about your speeding tickets and have any increased premiums included in the current years premium, you may be in for a nasty shock in the event of a claim in 5 years time. Endorsements may only stay on your licence for 3 years, but insurance companies may apply a 5 year rule. The same goes for moving house, change of postcode etc etc. I have known cases where back payments of thousands of pounds have been required before they will settle a claim.

As an aside, do not ever insure a child's car in your name, with them as a named driver when in reality it is their car. It is called Fronted Risk. They are very clever at establishing who the main driver of the vehicle is, and in the event of a claim they will do so. If they have so much as a suspicion that this is the situation they will not hesitate to cancel all family policies, at which point anyone in the family will have serious problems getting car insurance ever again.

If your vehicle is insured in the UK opt for automated renewal. I have known of cases where someone has spent the best part of the year in France driving around in a £30k car, not realising that the renewal notice was sent to their UK address and never renewed. They have been totally uninsured. The consequences are too frightening to think about.

Their is a widespread illusion that if you have Comprehensive cover then 'you can drive any other vehicle with the owners permission' with 3rd party cover. This statement is misleading to many. What it actually refers to is when you are a passenger in a car and the insured driver is unable to drive. It is for emergency use only. It is not free named driver insurance.

Named drivers have exactly the same cover as the policy holder.

Ok, now for the 'green card'.

Forget the term 'green card' insurance completely.

If you have a UK registered car, and you are a UK resident, and your policy is taken out through a UK insurance company then the following applies:

Comprehensive policies.

By default the comprehensive cover applies to the United Kingdom only.

Extension of that cover into the countries listed as 'European' by the underwriters depends on who you are insured with.

The list of countries is standard, France is on that list, and is in Zone 1. Eg Not a dodgy high risk country to drive in.

Depending on your insurance company your extension of cover for France (though this will include the other countries as well), will depend entirely on their policy terms. There is no universal rule.

If you have comprehensive cover, you automatically get the minimum legal cover for any country that you are travelling in. This may be loosely interpreted as 3rd party cover. You do need to tell your insurers that you are travelling abroad, your date of departure and your date of return. They need to know the risk that they are insuring. You also need to tell them whether you are towing anything.

Some companies will extend your Comp cover for 3 days for free.

Some companies will extend your cover for 30-90 days for free.

Some companies will extend your cover to for a 'maximum' 30-90 days in the policy year for an additional fee.

Some companies will extend your cover for a full year and include it in your policy premium. The small print will usually make it clear that this does not mean that you can leave the country for 12 months and remain insured.

There are no hard and fast rules, if you are unsure then ring them and ask them. Double check the answer (politely), as the turnover of staff in call centres is high, and the training is very intense with a very steep learning curve. You have no way of telling if the person you are talking to is on their first day, or their 30th day. There are also some temp workers who couldn't give a monkeys what they tell you. Your only recourse is to be very specific about what you ask and to provide accurate responses to all questions. If you have been given incorrect information on that basis and the worst happens, then all calls are recorded. It takes seconds for a manager to listen to all calls related to your policy, and they discover that you were given misleading information, the insurer will stand by the policy. Do not 'demand to speak to a manager' unless you have a complaint. If the advisor is unsure about something they have contacts within the office that they can refer to, plus an arsenal of information on their pc. Finding fine details in the small print of some obscure document (there are hundreds) may take them several minutes, so be patient.

I hope that clarifies a few things, but in all eventualities, if you have any doubts about your specific policy and what is covered, and when, just pick up the phone and ask them. Its free advice, they are there to help you and to ensure that you, the policy holder, are insured with the level of cover that you require.

The worst times to call are 8-10am, and 4-6pm. The best time is 30 minutes before they shut the lines each day.

Rob G

[connolls]

WOW............. Wibblywobbly,

Did you get up early and find yourself at a loose end !!

Thanks for all that info, really useful to a lot of people.

Looking forward now to my well insured trip.

Have a good weekend all.

Mel.

[AnOther]

Thanks might be a bit premature as I am not so sure that the info is accurate (despite the claims of authority)

[quote user="Wibblywobbly"]First of all I have worked in the motor insurance industry in the UK, so this information is accurate.

If the vehicle is UK registered then it is UK insured - Really, registration and insurance are 2 entirely separate items are they not.

The policy applies to the policy holder not the vehicle - Really, surely it applies to policy holder and vehicle depending on make, model, power etc.

If your vehicle is insured in the UK opt for automated renewal - Spoken like a true salesman but the worst possible advice and a licence to be ripped off. If you are that forgetful devise some way to be reminded.

Their is a widespread illusion that if you have Comprehensive cover then 'you can drive any other vehicle with the owners permission' with 3rd party cover. This statement is misleading to many. What it actually refers to is when you are a passenger in a car and the insured driver is unable to drive. It is for emergency use only. It is not free named driver insurance - That is just nonsense. Policies I have had have specifically stated that I can drive other cars with the owners permission. What you suggest means that short of being a named driver on someone elses policy you can never drive their car without them being present. Some policies I believe contain a clause whereby in an emergency anybody with a valid licence can drive a car.

If you have comprehensive cover, you automatically get the minimum legal cover for any country that you are travelling in This may be loosely interpreted as 3rd party cover - I believe it is the case that all EU policies, be they 3rd party or comprehensive provide minimum foreign cover by law.

You have no way of telling if the person you are talking to is on their first day, or their 30th day - So how do we know which day you are on [;-)]
[/quote]

[Chancer]

First of all I have worked in the motor insurance industry in the UK, so this information is accurate.

Where do you get the temerity to question such an authoritive posting ANO?

Have worked would indicate that he is on day zero.

I have worked in many industries including  nuclear and weaponry doesnt make me an authority though, I have also worked inside several insurance companies but dont have clue what they do apart from not very much, have the heating turned up too high and wear very skimpy clothes, nice on the eye but a pain when you are pulling cables across a cieling void. 

[ericd]

My own experience EVERY TIME i travel to France (UK registered and insured comprehensive). I have been with MoreThan for many years and the story is the same every year....).

I call them a couple weeks before travelling telling (always a call centre in Bangalore...) them we are off to France (sometime via Holland and Belgium). If the journey is more that 5 days, they ask me to pay for the additional level of cover(3rd part abroad to fully comp abroad) as multi-explained above (5 days or less is free and for as many trips as you want).

I ring on day one telling them that i will be travelling for 5 days there and back. Certificate of fully comprehensive insurance on the Continent is then sent directly to my home address. I repeat this little exercise for as long as it takes to cover our entire stay in France.

I end up with 3 or 4 certificate of insurance ensuring we are covered fully comprehensive (as per the UK) when we travel on holiday and at no extra cost.

[AnOther]

[quote user="Chancer"]

First of all I have worked in the motor insurance industry in the UK, so this information is accurate.

Where do you get the temerity to question such an authoritive posting ANO?[/quote]

Unfortunately that sort of opening gambit puts it on a par with viral emails which proclaim such things as, 'this is genuine, just released by Microsoft/Symantec/McAfee etc. [blink]

[Baz]

[quote user="ericd"]My own experience EVERY TIME i travel to France (UK registered and insured comprehensive). I have been with MoreThan for many years and the story is the same every year....). I call them a couple weeks before travelling telling (always a call centre in Bangalore...) them we are off to France (sometime via Holland and Belgium). If the journey is more that 5 days, they ask me to pay for the additional level of cover(3rd part abroad to fully comp abroad) as multi-explained above (5 days or less is free and for as many trips as you want). I ring on day one telling them that i will be travelling for 5 days there and back. Certificate of fully comprehensive insurance on the Continent is then sent directly to my home address. I repeat this little exercise for as long as it takes to cover our entire stay in France. I end up with 3 or 4 certificate of insurance ensuring we are covered fully comprehensive (as per the UK) when we travel on holiday and at no extra cost.[/quote]

I would have my doubts about the validity of these 5 day covers. If you were involved in a claim and the Insurance company  asked for evidence of your crossing dates (very likely due to the current false claims scams in the UK) that may well invalidate your comprehensive cover and would  revert you to minimum cover. I certainly would check to see if you method for getting around paying for the cover is valid.

Baz